This is the Presidential Campaign Thread.

Barack Obama Vs. John McCain.

Edited November 6, 200817 yr by Toups

I just recently read a Reuters tracking poll that says Obama is up by 4% over McCain. However the same poll goes on to explain that McCain is experiencing a bump, as Obama was leading by 6-8% just a day or two ago. (Tracking polls always adding in the new day and dropping the oldest date)

In the same article, 91% of Rs support McCain while only 88% of Ds support Obama. DESPITE what others think, this smells like prejudice to me. If you are a Dem, what is your excuse for not supporting Obama? He espouses the same platform that Dems did in 2000 and 2004 for the most part. Those 12% IMHO represent those voters who are hesitant to vote for a black man (or perceived Muslim) to hold the highest office in the land. They are afraid that They will Take Over.

I agree with Jess that 75% of the Undecided will break for McCain. Being Undecided at this point in the Yearlong election season this year is pure crap.

I don't think much of polls, but if I hypothetically accepted the results of the poll to which you refer above, I would have to wholeheartedly disagree with you on the reason for the remaining Democrats not supporting Obama. I think it's too high of a percentage to attribute to any sort of prejudice.

I know that there are people of all races that are not going to vote for Obama specifically because of his race but there are also a percentage of people who simply don't like him for reasons other than his race and I don't think that should be discounted.

One of the things that has been a source of frustration for some is the notion that every black voter should vote for Obama because he's black and every non-black voter who doesn't want to vote for him (outside of possibly Republicans) is racist.

The difference in the percentage between Obama and McCain is a negligible 3%. What would be the reason for 9% of Republicans possibly not voting for McCain? He's too old. They don't like his platform. They're not comfortable with Palin. I'm sure there are a number of reasons so I don't see why for Obama it has to be all about prejudice.

I've never really accepted the concept of an independent voter. I think they either lean D or R.

I would probably think that way too but I can safely say that there is such a thing as an independent voter. The majority probably do trend one way or the other. If McCain had taken a different tone in his campaign then I might have had to make a real choice even though I did get into the Democratic primary drama and all but I didn't get to vote for a candidate in the primaries and choosing a party didn't entice me. I think the Democrats have come across as more rational this time around but this is a very different campaign and it's been more revealing than previous ones.

This has been more about my vision of America and what direction I don't want to see it head in moreso than anything. If not for that and the economy then I might still be hedging as well.....I just don't know for sure.

Seriously, I don't believe the race is as tight as they say it is right now. Primarily because of the major news outlets, the MSM, would start losing viewers if they said Obama is so far ahead, there's no way he can lose. Viewers = Revenue. Additionally, if the campaigns started behaving the same way, then the contributions would come to a halt, wouldn't they? It's in everyone's best interest to continue playing this election as "close" - from MSM to the campaigns - because it's all about money.

This kind of speaks to the issue I have with polls because unless something happens then there's no reason for the polls to all of a sudden be drastically different. If they're not asking the same sets of people or like minded people then maybe I could see it but if they are then those people would have to be somwhat schizophrenic, imo. I do agree that the media has to maintain the interest of the viewers and the candidates definitely need to try to keep people engaged because the way things will change (outside of something happening) has to do more with turnout. I can see why Obama's campaign is pushing early voting and the GOP is scaring people with voter fraud.

A lot of people are buying the "Joe the Plumber" story after the debates. It's a sound bite that the everyday voter is looking for - they aren't looking for the entire story. All they hear is "Joe the Plumber" confronted Obama about his paying higher taxes and that's what they go with. That's what the MSM is going with. And it could cause a surge for McCain in the polls.

I don't really think so. I would think so if people really saw him as a man struggling to make ends meet and now Obama is going to hit him with higher taxes but so far it seems that plumbers can't even relate to him because the story made him sound as if he's in a higher tax bracket than the average plumber. But if Joe is going to make an impact in the polls then maybe the race is very tight.

The sad thing to me is that Obama has his own robocall (I think automated calls are almost as bad as telemarketing), with his own Joe (Martinez) the plumber. If he wanted to go that route then he should just get a bunch of plumbers named Joe and stick them in a commercial. It might be annoying but it might also resonate with some people. Joe the plumber is probably more of an annoyance than a help because this is one man who claims to be worrying about a business where many people are worrying about paying their bills and meeting their basic needs. Republicans might love him though.

Isn't it funny how the Matt Damon "endorsement" of Obama was greeted with jeers from the right? And then they go out and promote an endorsement from a lesser-known actress? Hmmm. Hyprocrisy, anyone?

I think this was more about trying to woo Hispanic voters. Daddy Yankee endorsed McCain a couple of months ago or so and I guess that did wonders for him.....or not. Then there was Ricky Martin....oh let's take another stab at it with what's her name. Celebrities always sway me.

The McCain campaign has discovered a new word, and it's "Socialism". Interesting how they laid off this word until "Joe the Plumber" used it in his confrontation with Obama, and now Palin is taking the cue and running with it:

Palin: Obama’s Plan Is “Experiment With Socialism”

(CBS)From CBS News' Scott Conroy:

(ROSWELL, N.M.) - Sarah Palin drew huge cheers at an airport hanger rally here when she insisted that Barack Obama’s infamous comments to Joe the Plumber meant that the Democrat would initiate a socialist economic plan.

“Senator Obama said the wants to ‘spread the wealth,’” Palin said. “What that means is he wants government to take your money and dole it out however a politician sees fit.”

Palin acknowledged a man in the crowd who carried a sign proclaiming himself to be, “Ed The Dairy Man,” and used him to help make her point.

“Barack Obama calls it spreading the wealth, Joe Biden calls higher taxes patriotic, but Joe the plumber and Ed the Dairy Man, I believe that they think that it sounds more like socialism,” Palin said. “Friends, now is no time to experiment with socialism.”

Palin said that Obama was not being straightforward about his tax plan.

“He claims that he'll cut income taxes for 95 percent of Americans, but the problem is more than 40 percent of Americans pay no income taxes at all. So how can you cut income taxes for folks who don't pay them?”

She added that Obama would get the money from his proposed tax credits by increasing tax rates.

“In other words, Obama's plans to raise taxes on some in order to give checks out to others is not a tax cut,” Palin said. “It is more government growth and it's another government giveaway.”

That's a complete and utter lie. He's been very straightforward about his tax plans. However, I really think this is an effective strategy to tag his policies as "socialist". It reeks of McCarthyism, but for the general public, it's a scary word and the McCain camp will probably reel in some voters with the "S" word and I wouldn't be surprised at all.

The McCain campaign has discovered a new word, and it's "Socialism". Interesting how they laid off this word until "Joe the Plumber" used it in his confrontation with Obama, and now Palin is taking the cue and running with it:

That's a complete and utter lie. He's been very straightforward about his tax plans. However, I really think this is an effective strategy to tag his policies as "socialist". It reeks of McCarthyism, but for the general public, it's a scary word and the McCain camp will probably reel in some voters with the "S" word and I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Are you talking about scaring Republicans? If so, I agree but I don't think that works on other people and it certainly won't work on anyone who considers themselves to be liberal. A lot of the rhetoric coming from Republicans is conditioned upon making certain words or concepts seem frightening. Right about now, you probably have more people that will say they will gladly pay higher taxes if they know they can keep their jobs so I don't think they're worried about painting Obama as Robin Hood.

And they're still not really hearing anything concrete from the Republicans except Obama is this or is going to do that.

The sad thing to me is that Obama has his own robocall (I think automated calls are almost as bad as telemarketing), with his own Joe (Martinez) the plumber. If he wanted to go that route then he should just get a bunch of plumbers named Joe and stick them in a commercial. It might be annoying but it might also resonate with some people. Joe the plumber is probably more of an annoyance than a help because this is one man who claims to be worrying about a business where many people are worrying about paying their bills and meeting their basic needs. Republicans might love him though.

OK. The sound you hear is my bubble bursting. Obama has his own robocall now? Jeez. I thought he was above it all. What's the call all about, anyway?!?!

.....and since I've haven't heard about it, what does that say about my own bias?!?!? Bubbles bursting all over the place right about now!

I think this was more about trying to woo Hispanic voters. Daddy Yankee endorsed McCain a couple of months ago or so and I guess that did wonders for him.....or not. Then there was Ricky Martin....oh let's take another stab at it with what's her name. Celebrities always sway me.

OK....wait. What's this about Ricky Martin???? Ricky Martin???? Endorsing McCain????? You aren't serious, are you? Please post a link to this if it's true! I mean really - a Puerto Rican gay guy going for McCain? Makes no sense, IMO.

The best part of what Colin Powell said today was this:

[

"Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no. That's not America. Is there something wrong with a seven-year-old Muslim-American kid believing he or she could be president? Yet I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion that he is a Muslim and might have an association with terrorists. This is not the way we should be doing it in America.

I feel particularly strong about this because of a picture I saw in a magazine. It was a photo essay about troops who were serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one picture at the tail end of this photo essay, was of a mother at Arlington Cemetery and she had her head on the headstone of her son's grave. And as the picture focused in, you could see the writing on the headstone, and it gave his awards - Purple Heart, Bronze Star - showed that he died in Iraq, gave his date of birth, date of death, he was 20 years old. And then at the very top of the head stone, it didn't have a Christian cross. It didn't have a Star of David. It has a crescent and star of the Islamic faith.

And his name was Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan. And he was an American. He was born in New Jersey. He was fourteen years old at the time of 9/11, and he waited until he could serve his country and he gave his life."

Seriously, I don't believe the race is as tight as they say it is right now. Primarily because of the major news outlets, the MSM, would start losing viewers if they said Obama is so far ahead, there's no way he can lose. Viewers = Revenue. Additionally, if the campaigns started behaving the same way, then the contributions would come to a halt, wouldn't they? It's in everyone's best interest to continue playing this election as "close" - from MSM to the campaigns - because it's all about money.

So, if you don't believe the race is that close, do you really believe Obama is far ahead? And what makes you think so?

OK. The sound you hear is my bubble bursting. Obama has his own robocall now? Jeez. I thought he was above it all. What's the call all about, anyway?!?!

.....and since I've haven't heard about it, what does that say about my own bias?!?!? Bubbles bursting all over the place right about now!

Almost nothing shocks me when it comes to politicians and I harbor no illusions about any of them. They're almost all the same people to me unless they're way out there like Michelle Bachman. Here's the transcript:

Hi, my name is Joe Martinez and I am a plumber for Denver, Colorado, calling for Barack Obama's campaign for change. During this week's debate, Barack Obama talked about cutting taxes for middle class families like mine, lowering the health care costs of everyone, and bringing the change we need in Washington. John McCain ignored the issues and used the debate to launch false attacks against Barack Obama. In fact, McCain for the third debate in the row didn't even say the words middle class. So take it from Joe the plumber. If you want a president who will put middle class families first, join me in voting for Barack Obama.

OK....wait. What's this about Ricky Martin????

Ricky Martin????

Endorsing McCain????? You aren't serious, are you? Please post a link to this if it's true! I mean really - a Puerto Rican gay guy going for McCain? Makes no sense, IMO.

Thanks for catching that....I don't know why Ricky Martin came to mind but I got carried away. It was just Daddy Yankee.

Here's a link to an Obama slide show to make you fall back in love with him.....people in St Louis were bored yesterday and so this happened:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/18/o...d_n_135826.html

Edited October 20, 200817 yr by Wales2004

Seriously, I don't believe the race is as tight as they say it is right now. Primarily because of the major news outlets, the MSM, would start losing viewers if they said Obama is so far ahead, there's no way he can lose. Viewers = Revenue. Additionally, if the campaigns started behaving the same way, then the contributions would come to a halt, wouldn't they? It's in everyone's best interest to continue playing this election as "close" - from MSM to the campaigns - because it's all about money.

A lot of people are buying the "Joe the Plumber" story after the debates. It's a sound bite that the everyday voter is looking for - they aren't looking for the entire story. All they hear is "Joe the Plumber" confronted Obama about his paying higher taxes and that's what they go with. That's what the MSM is going with. And it could cause a surge for McCain in the polls.

OK, you've lost me :lol: Which is it, there is no tightening in the polls, or is Joe the Plumber causing a surge in the polls??

I think the race is tightening nationally because I think a lot of the undecided now will break toward McCain, or they will stay at home. I feel that voters who were for Obama locked up early. I think a lot of folks are looking for a reason to vote for McCain and now I think they will just hold their noses and do it. I think Joe the Plumber is a bust. It could have worked, but now it just seems desperate. McCain has been all over the place. First he linked Obama to Paris Hilton, then it was he's not like the rest of us, then it was he's inexperienced, then it was he's a terrorist, then it was he's trying to steal the election, and now it's he's a socialist. It's just too much hopping around.

So, if you don't believe the race is that close, do you really believe Obama is far ahead? And what makes you think so?

Howdy, cct. I was fixin to go to bed, but I saw this and wanted to respond.

I don't believe the race is close because of a couple of things. The first being cell-phone only households, which are not polled as landlines are. Generally, younger voters forego landlines in favor of cell phones - most of them have no traditional "home phone" at all, which excludes them from polling. Secondly, I live in a generally conservative part of Florida and I can say that Obama yard signs are outnumbering McCain's 5:1.

The last thing I believe to be very important are impoverished African-Americans that may not have the money for a landline or cell phone that are (again) left out of polling.

And let me clarify, IMHO, polls schmolls (as many have seen me post many times). But if the MSM is basing this race on them (which they are), I believe they are inherently misguided because of younger voters and the poorer electorate.

Now I'm going to sleepy time. I look forward to your thoughts (and everyone else's) when I check the thread tomorrow morning.

Howdy, cct. I was fixin to go to bed, but I saw this and wanted to respond.

I don't believe the race is close because of a couple of things. The first being cell-phone only households, which are not polled as landlines are. Generally, younger voters forego landlines in favor of cell phones - most of them have no traditional "home phone" at all, which excludes them from polling. Secondly, I live in a generally conservative part of Florida and I can say that Obama yard signs are outnumbering McCain's 5:1.

The last thing I believe to be very important are impoverished African-Americans that may not have the money for a landline or cell phone that are (again) left out of polling.

And let me clarify, IMHO, polls schmolls (as many have seen me post many times). But if the MSM is basing this race on them (which they are), I believe they are inherently misguided because of younger voters and the poorer electorate.

Now I'm going to sleepy time. I look forward to your thoughts (and everyone else's) when I check the thread tomorrow morning.

Thanks for the reply. I couldn't agree more about the landline/younger voter thing. With Obama, it's all about Get Out The Vote!! History has proven, the more people that vote, the more we go Democratic. There are so many disenfranchised out there, though. I canvassed in a trailer park and had several discussions with people who "didn't know what to do" because they're all a bunch of "lying rich folk." Can you blame them? Sigh...

I'm sure you saw earlier though, I'm SW OH, and the signs here are 6:1....McCain unfortunately.

P.S. Did anyone see Sarah Palin on SNL? While she has no future as a comedienne, she was a good sport.

I would love to go to this ass's house and dance in his yard after the 4th.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/19/r...g_n_135971.html

This is about twenty minutes from me.

P.S. Did anyone see Sarah Palin on SNL? While she has no future as a comedienne, she was a good sport.

I saw clips and I think Tina Fey was the funniest of them all. Amy Poehler doing the rap was so so to me and maybe Palin will find her inner comedienne but she was okay.

And I know somewhere earlier I read something about how Colin Powell's endorsement was going to be viewed so here we go:

Limbaugh, George Will: Powell Endorsed Obama Based on Race

Sam Stein October 19, 2008

Colin Powell's decision to endorse Barack Obama has sparked a mini-debate of sorts over both the significance of the endorsement itself and the role that race has and will play during this campaign.

In the immediate aftermath of his appearance on Meet The Press, several prominent GOP officials - ranging from the established to the extreme - defined the announcement more by skin color than ideology.

The most crass interpretation came from talk radio host Rush Limbaugh, who wrote the Politico's Jonathan Martin the following:

"Secretary Powell says his endorsement is not about race... OK, fine. I am now researching his past endorsements to see if I can find all the inexperienced, very liberal, white candidates he has endorsed. I'll let you know what I come up with."

Around the same time, esteemed conservative columnist George Will was also explaining Powell's decision as part of a larger, more psychological sway that Obama held over other African Americans.

There will be "some impact," Will declared. "And I think this adds to my calculation -- this is very hard to measure -- but it seems to me if we had the tools to measure we'd find that Barack Obama gets two votes because he's black for every one he loses because he's black because so much of this country is so eager, a, to feel good about itself by doing this, but more than that to put paid to the whole Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson game of political rhetoric."

There were, down the conservative line, other voices who gave credence to the race-over-politics theory. A prominent Republican attorney in Maine, Dan Billings, accused Powell of racism, stating: "If Obama was a white man, Powell would not have made the endorsement."

Certainly, it is hard to dismiss this element when the discussion surrounds a man who seemed en route -- if he simply wanted -- to becoming the first African American president and the individual who is poised to fulfill that possibility. But the argument (for all its condescending simplicity) seems to be missing the larger point. For starters, Powell has, in the past, endorsed a "white man" who was described as inexperienced -- George W. Bush in 2000. Mainly, however, the endorsement tells us more about how Obama's candidacy will be perceived among white voters than it says about the Illinois Democrat's African American support structure. As the Atlantic's Marc Ambinder explains:

"Powell is a culturally individuated African American hero; to the extent that there remain white voters who have inchoate worries about Obama's race, it helps to have him associated with a man whose race they've already gotten over. I do think this cohort of people is tiny."

UPDATE: Notre Dame Professor Darren Davis, who specializes in the intersection of race and politics, writes in with his take on the Powell endorsement and the conservative reaction.

"There is nothing racially obvious about Colin Powell's endorsement of Barack Obama. I have read Colin Powell's comments and he did not at anytime allude to race being a factor in his endorsement. I think what we are seeing is a sense of racial stereotyping of two ostensibly racially transcendent political figures. There has always been a stereotype that all black people will stick together. It seems that this is somewhat in play here, given that they only factor connecting Colin Powell and Barack Obama is race."

I would love to go to this ass's house and dance in his yard after the 4th.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/19/r...g_n_135971.html

This is about twenty minutes from me.

It's too bad kids have to live any where near him and whoever dressed McCain up like a KKK member. These are some really troubled people and I don't think he understands the Bible if he thinks Christians can be racist.