This is the Presidential Campaign Thread.

Barack Obama Vs. John McCain.

Edited November 6, 200817 yr by Toups

They counted how many times McCain blinked and I'm pretty sure the greatest hits are on youtube. I watched a clip earlier of the new Obama ad....a negative one.....starring blinking McCain, but it's actually a good ad.....according to me and what do I know? See for yourselves:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/16/o...i_n_135146.html

Off the Meds

Nora Ephron

So is this the real John McCain?

No question the man who turned up last night did a better job than he'd done at the previous two debates. But here's the problem for McCain: he's either last week's guy, who seems to be on medication, or he's this week's guy, who seems to have been abruptly taken off it.

He gave the game away in his first answer when, in talking about the economy, he said that Americans were angry. But Americans aren't angry, they're poleaxed. They're terrified. They're afraid they're going to lose their jobs or their homes or their pensions. They're worried they won't be able to send their kids to college. If John McCain thinks they're angry, it's either because he's projecting, or else he's simply been going to too many of his own rallies.

As he smirked and blinked and raised his eyebrows, I couldn't help wondering what tonight's McCain seemed like to all those conservative pundits who'd been hoping a different McCain would show up. Is this what they meant? Is this the John McCain of Bill Kristol's dreams?

Whichever McCain shows up, some things stay the same. He's a towel-snapper. He can't land a joke. He seems old. (As Martin Short said on Letterman just after the debate, "The only time he doesn't have to pee is when he's peeing.") And he's an absolutely terrible actor. Every time McCain went into his Joe-the-plumber-bit, those undecided voters on CNN were unmoved. They were probably not saying barf, like some of us were, but that's only because they're not allowed to talk amongst themselves during the debate.

At the Time Politics conference this week, New York Times columnist Frank Rich asked, "Was there any way that the Sarah Palin choice might have played out differently?" CBS' Jeff Greenfield gave a wonderful answer. He said the question reminded him of a woman friend who'd said of her divorce, "We would have had a wonderful marriage if he had been a completely different person." Isn't that great? It's practically a Zen koan, not that I know what a Zen koan is. But one of the most remarkable things about Barack Obama is that he's the same person every time he shows up. And as for John McCain, a completely different person showed up tonight, and it didn't seem to matter.

IA. I think Bob Schieffer did a great job with this debate. I should have known the bias claim was inevitable given the current Republican mind-set. McCain needed a huge win, and when he didn't get it, they roll out the blame game. Yeah, right - don't blame your candidate's ineptness at discussing the issues or his utter lack of personality and charisma for not getting the much needed "win". Blame anyone else in the hopes that the claim sticks to the wall. Ugh.

It's simply troubling to me, as a political person, to see the opposition sink to the level they have. Again, I shouldn't be surprised because these types of attacks have worked very well for them the last 8 years. But it's more troubling this time around because these words have the very real possibility of inciting violence.

Unfortunately, there are no shortage of (what I hope to be) the conversative fringe hatred groups here in Florida as well. Witness the psycho on I-75 attempting to start something going 80 mph on a 4 lane highway that I told y'all about. All because I have an Obama sticker on my car!

We are the state of intolerance. The state of Anita Bryant. She spewed her hatred (I vaguely remember this in the 70s) toward GLBT all across the state and much of the laws she helped to enact are still on the books today. Now it appears that Prop 2 (Gay Marriage ban) will likely pass. <sigh>. And whose sponsoring that legislation? A Republican. More hate politics from the right. What a surprise. It was here at a SW FL Palin rally where someone first yelled out something hateful and she did nothing about it.

I'm rambling again.

That's okay ramble on.

I think the big difference this election is tht the Republicans have totally misjudged the electorate. I beleive that people are more tolerant. I think that the Repubs didn't get that. The messages of hate and intolerance are basically falling on deaf ears. The last 8 years of "morality based" governance failed.

Last night's debate showed that people are looking for answers, not criticisms, repudiations or character attacks.

Yeah it was McCain's best debate performance, but his message lacked substance. And while I empathize with Joe plumber, enough already.

So, as you can see, I watched the debate as the Dodgers started losing in the early part of the game.

That's okay ramble on.

I think the big difference this election is tht the Republicans have totally misjudged the electorate. I beleive that people are more tolerant. I think that the Repubs didn't get that. The messages of hate and intolerance are basically falling on deaf ears. The last 8 years of "morality based" governance failed.

Last night's debate showed that people are looking for answers, not criticisms, repudiations or character attacks.

Yeah it was McCain's best debate performance, but his message lacked substance. And while I empathize with Joe plumber, enough already.

So, as you can see, I watched the debate as the Dodgers started losing in the early part of the game.

I don't feel sorry for that plumber. He's working his fifteen minutes of fame and he's misinformed anyway so I don't think taxes are that much of a concern for him. According to both ABC and MSNBC, if he's telling the truth about his finances then he'd actually be receiving a tax cut under Obama's plan. He was on GMA criticizing the plan and saying it was unfair that people should be taxed more for their success......I think it's unfair to pay taxes period but that's life. He claimed that Obama could change his mind and go after people with $150,000 and to me that's the same as saying any politician could change his or her mind and not do what they say they will. The unfortunate thing for Joe is that people are now diigging into his personal business so hopefully his moment in the sun will be worth it to him and at least McCain's pandering paid off for him since Joe will vote for him. The United Association of Plumbers and Pipefitters has endorsed Obama though.

Here's the clip with Joe and Katie Couric:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/16/j...p_n_135151.html

In a phone interview with CBS' Katie Couric, Joe Wurzelbacher said Barack Obama "tap dance[d] ... almost as good as Sammy Davis Jr." in their conversation. He also said he didn't actually make enough to fall into the group whose taxes would be raised under Obama -- but argued that it was a "slippery slope."

Edited October 16, 200817 yr by Wales2004

And let them keep doing it.

With the Dow dropping as much as it is every day, the more they mention this bullshit the more it makes them seem out of touch with what is really going on.

IA. This is in no way close to the real problems all of us are facing, and it may actually drive more fence-sitters to the Dems. But my concern is this. All this hatred and attacks has to do is get to one very unstable individual for something horrible to come of it. There could be a mentally unbalanced person out there now, watching people shout "terrorist" and "kill him", watching the attack ad from McCain that says Obama is "too risky" and sending him over the edge. That's scary to me.

They counted how many times McCain blinked and I'm pretty sure the greatest hits are on youtube. I watched a clip earlier of the new Obama ad....a negative one.....starring blinking McCain, but it's actually a good ad.....according to me and what do I know? See for yourselves:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/16/o...i_n_135146.html

I liked that ad. I thought it was very good.

Did you see McCain's new ad further down on the page?

That's okay ramble on.

I think the big difference this election is tht the Republicans have totally misjudged the electorate. I beleive that people are more tolerant. I think that the Repubs didn't get that. The messages of hate and intolerance are basically falling on deaf ears. The last 8 years of "morality based" governance failed.

Last night's debate showed that people are looking for answers, not criticisms, repudiations or character attacks.

Yeah it was McCain's best debate performance, but his message lacked substance. And while I empathize with Joe plumber, enough already.

So, as you can see, I watched the debate as the Dodgers started losing in the early part of the game.

I sincerely hope that you're right and the electorate are more open-minded. I believe that the younger generation is infinitely more accepting than others because of the era in which they grew up. I like your term "morality based governance", UCLAN.

On a more personal note - regarding tolerance. If my father, of all people, can not only accept my boyfriend into his home but actually consider him part of our family is a testimonial that even the most close-minded person can change when the environment is right. A few years ago, there was a news article in the local paper about 2 lesbians wanting to adopt and you could have knocked my Mom and me over with a feather when my father announced "Why don't they just leave them alone and let them live their lives like everyone else!" And thankfully, I haven't heard him calling African Americans any derogatory terms lately either. Or else I'd have to put him in his place. And I'm big enough to do it now!

I don't feel sorry for that plumber. He's working his fifteen minutes of fame and he's misinformed anyway so I don't think taxes are that much of a concern for him. According to both ABC and MSNBC, if he's telling the truth about his finances then he'd actually be receiving a tax cut under Obama's plan. He was on GMA criticizing the plan and saying it was unfair that people should be taxed more for their success......I think it's unfair to pay taxes period but that's life. He claimed that Obama could change his mind and go after people with $150,000 and to me that's the same as saying any politician could change his or her mind and not do what they say they will. The unfortunate thing for Joe is that people are now diigging into his personal business so hopefully his moment in the sun will be worth it to him and at least McCain's pandering paid off for him since Joe will vote for him. The United Association of Plumbers and Pipefitters has endorsed Obama though.

There is talk that he's a plant. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turned out he was put there by the RNC or even better, McCain's campaign. Maybe this will be our "October Surprise"?!?!? That Mr. Joe-The-Plumber is actually a political operative and lobbyist that lives in Washington, DC. Hmmmmm.

I like this video from Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlrf32JI708

IA. This is in no way close to the real problems all of us are facing, and it may actually drive more fence-sitters to the Dems. But my concern is this. All this hatred and attacks has to do is get to one very unstable individual for something horrible to come of it. There could be a mentally unbalanced person out there now, watching people shout "terrorist" and "kill him", watching the attack ad from McCain that says Obama is "too risky" and sending him over the edge. That's scary to me.

I liked that ad. I thought it was very good.

Did you see McCain's new ad further down on the page?

I sincerely hope that you're right and the electorate are more open-minded. I believe that the younger generation is infinitely more accepting than others because of the era in which they grew up. I like your term "morality based governance", UCLAN.

I consider myself religous, being raised Catholic. And I still practice, but I firmly believe that we have a personal relationship with God that is no body's business but our own. I raised my children that way. I have always been appalled by the fact that someone else wanted to dictate my relationship with God. I am pro-chioce because of that feeling that I have. (You know, it's between me and God)

On a more personal note - regarding tolerance. If my father, of all people, can not only accept my boyfriend into his home but actually consider him part of our family is a testimonial that even the most close-minded person can change when the environment is right. A few years ago, there was a news article in the local paper about 2 lesbians wanting to adopt and you could have knocked my Mom and me over with a feather when my father announced "Why don't they just leave them alone and let them live their lives like everyone else!" And thankfully, I haven't heard him calling African Americans any derogatory terms lately either. Or else I'd have to put him in his place. And I'm big enough to do it now!

I have always believed that life's experiences shape us and that we grow from them I can believe that your father learned from you and your relationship to become more tolerant of others. I am happy for you.

There is talk that he's a plant. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turned out he was put there by the RNC or even better, McCain's campaign. Maybe this will be our "October Surprise"?!?!? That Mr. Joe-The-Plumber is actually a political operative and lobbyist that lives in Washington, DC. Hmmmmm.

After hearing the convo with Katie Couric, I'm starting to believe that could be possible.

After hearing the convo with Katie Couric, I'm starting to believe that could be possible.

BTW, I'm sorry about your Dodgers, UCLAN! But they will hopefully be back in the hunt next year.

BTW, I'm sorry about your Dodgers, UCLAN! But they will hopefully be back in the hunt next year.

Not if we lose Manny! But I can wait 20 more years if I have too.

I don't know how to divide up quotes to reply to specific quotes, but I did reply to a couple of other thins you wrote. They are stuck in side the quote box. I must admit I am clueless to this posting phenom.

Not if we lose Manny! But I can wait 20 more years if I have too.

I don't know how to divide up quotes to reply to specific quotes, but I did reply to a couple of other thins you wrote. They are stuck in side the quote box. I must admit I am clueless to this posting phenom.

Oh, OK. I went back to see your comments....

I consider myself religous, being raised Catholic. And I still practice, but I firmly believe that we have a personal relationship with God that is no body's business but our own. I raised my children that way. I have always been appalled by the fact that someone else wanted to dictate my relationship with God. I am pro-chioce because of that feeling that I have. (You know, it's between me and God)

We are very much in agreement here, my friend. I was raised Protestant (Congregationalist) and in my teen years, attended a Southern Baptist (!) church. The reason for the switch was because I was struggling so much with who I was and I didn't want to accept it. But the Baptist beliefs were doing me more harm than good. I was extremely depressed and irritable, knowing that I couldn't change but that God would never accept me as I am(according to them). I've since gotten away from organized religion and am still very spiritual in my daily life. I find God in the birds that come into my yard, the love of my family, friends and neighbors, the butterfly landing on a newly opened bloom. Those kind of things give me spiritual peace and have enlightened me way beyond what my time in the church was able to.

I have always believed that life's experiences shape us and that we grow from them I can believe that your father learned from you and your relationship to become more tolerant of others. I am happy for you.

Based on the change in my father over the last few years, I'd say you're right!!

I got my advanced voting ballot today. I was surprised to see there were two other presidential noms baldwin/castle for the reform party and Barr/Root for the libertarian party. Anybody know anything about these people? This will be the first time I will actually get to vote since last time was so messed up.

I liked that ad. I thought it was very good.

Did you see McCain's new ad further down on the page?

It wasn't there before but since you tipped me off, I did go back and see it so yes. The ad would be good if McCain came across as more natural. Even though he doesn't mention Obama blaming things on Washington makes no sense since he's been there "working for us" for years. I think one of his problems is the notion that he's something fresh and different since he obviously isn't and doesn't look it for sure.

His length of service is more problematic for him than Obama's is for him because McCain's been there long enough for people to wonder if he's got the answers why didn't he share them with Bush or others or fight harder for them. Pointing out that Biden's been wrong on things doesn't make him look any more right. It just shows that he can find fault with others.

There is talk that he's a plant. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turned out he was put there by the RNC or even better, McCain's campaign. Maybe this will be our "October Surprise"?!?!? That Mr. Joe-The-Plumber is actually a political operative and lobbyist that lives in Washington, DC. Hmmmmm.

I don't think he is. He lives in a neighborhood that Obama canvassed. In their exchange, Obama seems to acknowledge that Joe probably won't vote for him but he says he will work for Joe anyway. McCain's people probably looked at tape and decided that this was a good angle for him. It might have been had he presented Joe as a middle class guy trying to make it but Joe works for a company and has no plumbing license nor does he need one since he's not running his own business. There are probably many people looking to start their own businesses but right now there are more people out of work or worried about finances so I don't think Joe's story hits home with the majority of people presently, McCain didn't bother to try and appeal to the middle class.

I guess there is the possibility though that the McCain campaign could have contacted Joe after seeing the tape and found that Joe could be their one man commercial since he's singing their tune while saying he won't reveal for whom he'll cast his vote.....which really is a no brainer based on what he said. I'd believe he was actually neutral if he did the general thing in pointing out that he wasn't gung ho about either but that McCain's tax plan did make more sense to him. The things he said about Obama was really along the lines of I don't know who he is but I know who McCain is and I know who Palin is and Biden but I don't like what Biden says.

Delete

Edited October 16, 200817 yr by Darcy

This is just for fun. My sister emailed me this. It's funny www.palinaspresident.com

Here's some video of more of those enlightened McCain supporters:

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/mc...s-let-their-rac

Special people are a part of both parties but I Republicans (in general) tend to not notice that so they make Democrats seem more open minded.

Here's some video of more of those enlightened McCain supporters:

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/mc...s-let-their-rac

Special people are a part of both parties but I Republicans (in general) tend to not notice that so they make Democrats seem more open minded.

Unbelievable!!!!