This is the Presidential Campaign Thread.

Barack Obama Vs. John McCain.

Edited November 6, 200817 yr by Toups

This is one big clusterfuck

Yeah, right now I do feel that way. I think appointing her now could be seen as a sign of weakness on his part. Also, statements like those in Geraldine Ferraro's editorial, come across as pitting African-Americans against women. Instead of it looking like Obama is trying to unite factions within the party, it will appear that he can't win without her and that he is winking at the politics of divisiveness that he said he abhors.

I think Hillary's campaign has probably talked her right off the ticket.

Do you think he could still appoint her?

GF's comments really hurt her in the long run, becasue many still link them together.

It may pit AAs against women......but not by much or many. Only the fringe people will push this.

I just don't think he can appoint her now. Especially after the actions of today. The Clinton campaign wants to get as many PDs and PVs as possible, so they can take it to the floor in Denver. If, by some chance they do that, and throw out what Mich. and Florida did, for whatever reason......it will cost them HUGE in November. Many want to overlook the fact that Obama's supporters just won't vote for her leading the ticket in November because many will feel she stole the nom and cheated to get there.

I'm watching this since this morning....and this is ridiculous. No one is stating that Edwards and Obama signed the agreement removing their names in order to follow the commitments of the National party. No one is stating that Hilary is violated her agreement when she campaigned in Florida. People are saying Obama took his name off the ballot in Michigan because he was going to lose, which is NOT true.

Cesspool of clusterfuckery....

GF's comments really hurt her in the long run, becasue many still link them together.

It may pit AAs against women......but not by much or many. Only the fringe people will push this.

I don't have anything constructive to say at the moment but how do you pit black Americans against women? Am I missing something or are all black people men?

Just saying that Jess may have a point.

That's all.

I'm watching this since this morning....and this is ridiculous. No one is stating that Edwards and Obama signed the agreement removing their names in order to follow the commitments of the National party. No one is stating that Hilary is violated her agreement when she campaigned in Florida. People are saying Obama took his name off the ballot in Michigan because he was going to lose, which is NOT true.

Cesspool of clusterfuckery....

I've only been watching in small segments. The fact that they're all sitting there absolving themselves of any responsibility for the mess is problem #1. The idea that these are all people who are sitting there with no agenda whatsoever than the good of the party is a lie.

The whole MI thing is the worst though. Here you have people justifying why they knowingly broke the rules and suggesting that they've been punished enough which is absurd. You've got a Clinton supporter committee member who wants to compare the uncommitted vote to that of a presidential election and a Clinton rep saying that the uncommitted vote was just a protest against the primary not counting while pretending the clip of Clinton saying the primary would not count wasn't seen until after the fact. If that's the case then how did those voters know to protest? That statement is in direct conflict with what their first speaker said which is that the uncommitted votes were made to cover the candidates whose names were not on the ballot.

Regardless of the outcome, I think Obama supporters have a legitimate gripe against how this process was skewered against him.

I'm watching this since this morning....and this is ridiculous. No one is stating that Edwards and Obama signed the agreement removing their names in order to follow the commitments of the National party. No one is stating that Hilary is violated her agreement when she campaigned in Florida. People are saying Obama took his name off the ballot in Michigan because he was going to lose, which is NOT true.

Cesspool of clusterfuckery....

Everyone knows he took his name off per the agreement they all signed. She even said that Mich. would mean nothing........and now the tune has changed.

Just saying that Jess may have a point.

That's all.

I was having a moment and I should have made my point instead of doing the roundabout.

My point is that people keep getting discounted in this whole process. People say AA I say black and I notice in the media they haven't quite gotten it down since they tend to go back and forth in a sentence,

Black women get discounted when talking about women voters. Obviously they are outnumbered but the fact of the matter is that Clinton enjoys the support of some black women and some black men. Black women seem to be in a unique position as are white men when it comes to going for gender or race. The media keeps ignoring that in favor of giving white women preferential status and non-white women only race/ethnic status.

Instead of glossing over the issue they ought to look at why the most powerful voting bloc of white women didn't overwhelmingly make HC the nominee months ago. I keep turning the coverage on and off to see the shakedown rally.

They may feel that if they introduce either racism or sexism, it may throw the whole deal off-kilter.

Wales, I don't know, man.

I think these people know hey F-ed up and are now trying to save face.

From NBC's Domenico Montanaro

"My momma taught me to play by the rules and respect those rules. My mother taught me, and I'm sure your mother taught you, that when you decide change the rules, middle of the game, end of the game, that is referred to as cheatin.'" -- Donna Brazile to former Michigan Gov. Jim Blanchard, who was making the case for the Clinton campaign to get 73 delegates out of Michigan with 55 for uncommitted.

Blanchard responded that he agreed, and that "Hillary Clinton did play by the rules." He added that, "She even went along with the pledge not to campaign there."

---

Of note, when Harold Ickes was yielded time to speak, he said he wanted to comment on what Bonior said, who presented for Obama, committee co-chair James Roosevelt told Ickes the time was for question and answer and that if he didn't have a question, he wouldn't let him speak.

Now, question.

Did she or didn't she campaign in one or both these states?

They may feel that if they introduce either racism or sexism, it may throw the whole deal off-kilter.

Wales, I don't know, man.

I think these people know hey F-ed up and are now trying to save face.

Maybe so. Dean was weak on that front though. He blamed the sexism on the media and left the racism up in the air. There is no way they can save face in this.

Howard Wolfson is an idiot. He's trying to make the tired pitch that HC only wants what is good for the party and MI when the MI rep is not asking for what she wants. Then continuing to make it seem as if Obama just voluntarily removed his name for no good reason is adding fuel to the fire. He also threw in the priest as proof that HC is about unity and Obama is not.

All of this has to be based on the supposition that the people that are supporting her now are the only people she needs in order to win the nomination and the general election. Good luck with that.

Maybe so. Dean was weak on that front though. He blamed the sexism on the media and left the racism up in the air. There is no way they can save face in this.

Howard Wolfson is an idiot. He's trying to make the tired pitch that HC only wants what is good for the party and MI when the MI rep is not asking for what she wants. Then continuing to make it seem as if Obama just voluntarily removed his name for no good reason is adding fuel to the fire. He also threw in the priest as proof that HC is about unity and Obama is not.

All of this has to be based on the supposition that the people that are supporting her now are the only people she needs in order to win the nomination and the general election. Good luck with that.

They can try that if they want to.

Watch and see how many people stay home if she ends up with the nom.

HW is a complete idiot. He really needs to get his facts straight before he opens his mouth. Obama, Edwards and the others removed their names per the rules of the state and national DNC. He should not be penalized for actually keeping his word.

And also........

40% of Michigan voters voted "undeclared". Why are the Clinton people pushingt o get PDs from voters that didn't vote for her in the first place?!

And how is that about the party and what's fair?

They can try that if they want to.

Watch and see how many people stay home if she ends up with the nom.

HW is a complete idiot. He really needs to get his facts straight before he opens his mouth. Obama, Edwards and the others removed their names per the rules of the state and national DNC. He should not be penalized for actually keeping his word.

And also........

40% of Michigan voters voted "undeclared". Why are the Clinton people pushingt o get PDs from voters that didn't vote for her in the first place?!

And how is that about the party and what's fair?

They're using some fishy logic about people voting for uncommitted as a protest to the primary not counting.

I don't get why MSNBC even has Pat Buchanan around since he says the same thing over and over which is fight fight fight. Some of the other repetitious analysts are at least offering some sort of rationale to their position.

I thought they were going to follow the protest rally but so far all I've seen of the outside was just before the meeting started.

Probably because all the action is in the meeting.

PB makes his opinion known every time he opens his mouth. What is now funny is that, if you look at the show block on during the week, the people on panels with him have now taken to just calling him out on the shows. Keith's show is the only one he doesn't appear on, which makes me think KO may not care for PB.

Probably because all the action is in the meeting.

PB makes his opinion known every time he opens his mouth. What is now funny is that, if you look at the show block on during the week, the people on panels with him have now taken to just calling him out on the shows. Keith's show is the only one he doesn't appear on, which makes me think KO may not care for PB.

KO seems to march to his own drum beat. I didn't catch his entire show yesterday but I don't think he even bit on that Pfleger story. He did find mention the priest that said an opening prayer at some Republican event that was mainly about Obama. Interestingly enough the Cardinal condemned Pfleger on the basis of being political but there was no mention of the same being said regarding the other priest.

On the toughness scale I would have to give KO a 10 and CM around 8. I loved the clip of Bill O'Reilly saying that everyone at NBC should quit.