This is the Presidential Campaign Thread.

Barack Obama Vs. John McCain.

Edited November 6, 200817 yr by Toups

IA. If they wouldhave stuck with their guns this all would be over.

You are mistaken.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/10/...in3698117.shtml

Thank you.

The talking in circles will go on because when someone chooses to ignore any response that puts a dent in his/her premise and continues to set forth the same premise then you get the never ending cycle of A A A A A even though B nullifies the basis for A.

This just in.

And.....this should stop some of the seating BS I keep hearing get repeated.

Democrats Advised to Seat Half of Disputed Delegates

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By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE

Published: May 29, 2008

Democratic Party lawyers have determined that no more than half the delegates from Florida and Michigan can be seated at the party’s August convention, dealing a blow to Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s efforts to seat the full delegations from those states.

Election GuideMore Politics NewsThe rules committee of the Democratic National Committee meets on Saturday to determine whether to seat the delegates from these states, which were penalized for holding early primaries.

In asking that the full delegations from these states be seated, Mrs. Clinton hopes to narrow Senator Barack Obama’s delegate edge and make the case that by including the votes from these states, she will have more of the popular vote in the nominating contests, an assertion that has come under some dispute. But the party’s legal analysis, contained in a 38-page memo to the committee, says the committee can either seat only 50 percent of the delegates or seat them all but give them only half a vote, which amounts to the same thing.

Whatever the committee decides about the delegates may not be a big factor in Mrs. Clinton’s pursuit of the nomination. Even if she were awarded all the delegates in proportion to her popular vote in those states — her best-case scenario — she could not overtake Senator Obama’s delegate lead.

It is not entirely clear what the Obama campaign intends to ask for at the meeting but Mr. Obama has said he wants the delegates seated. His top aide, David Axelrod, has said that the campaign could go “half-way” on any compromise.

The important goal for the Clinton campaign is to include the popular votes from those two disputed states in its overall vote tally. The Clinton campaign is already doing this, but because Michigan and Florida have been stripped of their delegates, an air of illegitimacy hangs over their votes and her opponents do not recognize their popular vote.

If the rules committee seats even half the delegates from those states, that could confer some legitimacy on the Clinton’s inclusion of those votes in their overall tally, although a Clinton aide said that the campaign does not feel it needs the seating of the delegates to legitimize the popular vote. Those votes have been counted and certified by the secretaries of state in both states, the aide said, and the rules committee cannot alter that.

The rules committee’s meeting is important because it needs to address the decisions by Michigan and Florida to move up their primaries in violation of party rules. The committee stripped the states of their delegates as punishment for doing so. If it restores the delegates, even at half strength, it may send a message to other states that next time they can violate the calendar without serious consequences, in effect a license for chaos.

So the committee is in a box in trying to figure out how to respect the voters in Florida and Michigan, who were not responsible for this potential disenfranchisement, while still honoring voters in 48 other states where officials followed the rules.

All of this could have been avoided if:

1) MI and FL had moved their primaries back to their original dates

2) Hillary hadn't gone against her pledge to not campaign in MI or FL and not try to change the rules just because she's down.

The issue at hand should be with the leaders in MI and FL. Not the entire DNC. The DNC did what it had to do.

All of this could have been avoided if:

1) MI and FL had moved their primaries back to their original dates

2) Hillary hadn't gone against her pledge to not campaign in MI or FL and not try to change the rules just because she's down.

The issue at hand should be with the leaders in MI and FL. Not the entire DNC. The DNC did what it had to do.

Your right Ryan and if they had went by the rules the way things turned out they would have WAY more power at the later date.

Hillary would have taken FL and Obama MI!

Another piece on information.

From CNN:

Poll of Polls: Obama, Clinton both leading McCain

Posted: 02:30 PM ET

(CNN)–The CNN general election national poll of polls now shows both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton leading John McCain McCain by two points: 46 percent to 44 percent.

The last general election poll of polls — released May 15 — showed Obama leading McCain by five points (48 percent to 43 percent) and Clinton leading McCain by four points (48 percent to 44 percent).

NATIONAL GENERAL ELECTION POLL OF POLLS*

May 15-27

Voters’ Choice for President

Obama: 46 percent

McCain: 44 percent

Unsure: 10 percent

*The national general election “poll of polls” consists of three surveys: Gallup (May 22-25/27), Newsweek (May 21-22), and Reuters/Zogby (May 15-18). The poll of polls does not have a sampling error.

Another piece on information.

From CNN:

Poll of Polls: Obama, Clinton both leading McCain

Posted: 02:30 PM ET

(CNN)–The CNN general election national poll of polls now shows both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton leading John McCain McCain by two points: 46 percent to 44 percent.

The last general election poll of polls — released May 15 — showed Obama leading McCain by five points (48 percent to 43 percent) and Clinton leading McCain by four points (48 percent to 44 percent).

NATIONAL GENERAL ELECTION POLL OF POLLS*

May 15-27

Voters’ Choice for President

Obama: 46 percent

McCain: 44 percent

Unsure: 10 percent

*The national general election “poll of polls” consists of three surveys: Gallup (May 22-25/27), Newsweek (May 21-22), and Reuters/Zogby (May 15-18). The poll of polls does not have a sampling error.

You know.....since Obama is leading McCain in that poll, he should DEFINITELY be President....seeing as how that was the argument a few months ago when Hillary had overtaken Barrack in the polls.

But wait, who am I kidding. Barrack needs to step aside and let Hillary be POTUS because she is the one who can take us to the White House in November. I must remember that. Hillary as POTUS, Barrack as VPOTUS.

*smacks head*

So.......

The person in second place is actually the winner.

The issue at hand should be with the leaders in MI and FL. Not the entire DNC. The DNC did what it had to do.

I tired to make this point a while back so I naturally agree. All those officials are doing is looking for someone to fix their mistake and also trying to shirk responsibility by shifting blame. If they can stir the pot then the people will forget who disenfranchised them in the first place.

You know.....since Obama is leading McCain in that poll, he should DEFINITELY be President....seeing as how that was the argument a few months ago when Hillary had overtaken Barrack in the polls.

But wait, who am I kidding. Barrack needs to step aside and let Hillary be POTUS because she is the one who can take us to the White House in November. I must remember that. Hillary as POTUS, Barrack as VPOTUS.

*smacks head*

What are you even thinking?

So.......

The person in second place is actually the winner.

Only when second place is the new first place.

Edited May 28, 200817 yr by Wales2004

Thank you, Wales.

I forgot that. So, by that logic......

Al Gore DID beat GWB in 2000.

And.......the Rams beat the Pats in SB36.

And........

Luke Skywalker, in blowing up the Death Star......really won the war between the Empire and the Rebels.

I see, I see.......

Thank you, Wales.

I forgot that. So, by that logic......

Al Gore DID beat GWB in 2000.

And.......the Rams beat the Pats in SB36.

Don't tell fans of the NYG that the Giants didn't really win the SB this year.

I can't wait for coverage of that non event on Saturday. Hmmmm so the lawyers said 50 percent and the media is going to pretend as long as it lasts that something else is going to happen as they analyze it to death.

I bet that has already started.

Lord.

Clinton Backers Plan Rules and Bylaws Protest

By Garance Franke-Ruta

The cracks in the divided Democratic Party just got a little deeper.

A group of high-profile Hillary Clinton supporters, Democratic fundraisers and Florida Democrats is planning to hold a day-long rally Saturday outside the Washington hotel where the Democratic National Committee's Rules and Bylaws Committee Meeting will be considering the fate of votes cast in the Michigan and Florida primaries to call attention to what they say is the exclusion of women's voices from the democratic -- and Democratic -- process and the disenfranchisement of Michigan and Florida voters.

"Our purpose is not to divide the party or attack the DNC or Senator Obama," said the Hillary Rapid Responders, one of the rally planners, in an online announcement of it. "At the same time, Hillary's strong support cannot be dismissed in DNC efforts to unify the party."

The rally is perhaps a more unusual intra-party affair than such words suggest, pitting powerful Democratic women against a party for which they have done much.

The event is being co-organized by the Women Count PAC -- founded by five top Clinton supporters, including longtime Clinton friend and fundraiser Susie Tompkins Buell and Stacy Mason, a former editor of Roll Call - -and a coalition of disparate other groups working under the umbrella of the New York-based group Count Every Vote '08. It will draw together some of Clinton's most loyal backers and be emceed by Jehmu Greene, the former president of Rock the Vote who sat on the DNC committee that spent 2005 trying to reform the party's primary process.

Announced speakers so far include National Organization for Women President Kim Gandy and Florida Democratic congresswoman Corinne Brown. Organizers say that they expect individuals to come in from 26 different states for the rally, as well as some major celebrity speakers, and that they are receiving logistical assistance or other support from the pro-Clinton United Federation of Teachers and EMILY's List. The group Florida Demands Representation, organized by James Hannagan, will also be there.

The rally was the brainchild of a young Clinton fundraiser and New York attorney who is a member of Count Every Vote '08, according to the group's spokeswoman Karen Feldman, a political consultant from Hudson, N.Y., who specializes in female candidates. Count Every Vote '08 first came together in mid-March to lobby Democratic superdelegates on behalf of Clinton. "When we started we were a group of women primarily supporting Hillary Clinton," said Feldman of the initial team, which also included legendary N.Y. Clinton fundraisers Ricki Lieberman, Pamela Hayes, and Barbara Layton, as well as Allida Black, the project director and editor of The Eleanor Roosevelt papers at George Washington University who has known Clinton for years through human rights circles.

Black also joined together with Tompkins Buell to start Women Count PAC two weeks ago, along with Clinton fundraiser and Silicon Valley executive Amy Rao, former Roll Call editor Mason and corporate communications specialist Rosemary Camposano. The group raised more than $250,000 in four days, Camposano told The Trail, and used that money to buy ads in the New York Times, USA Today and four newspapers in Kentucky and Oregon.

In response to the ads, "we started getting e-mails and phone calls -- just thousands and thousands of women saying, 'How we can stand up?' 'How can we help?'" says Camposano. "We've been hearing from women who feel like women, as group, we are 51 percent of the country and we don't have a voice when getting heard in the media. ... We're hearing from the women who feel completely outraged about being ignored in this process and being marginalized."

The latest ad, which ran in the Times over the weekend, called on women readers to attend the May 31 rally.

This.....

Bull.

[!@#$%^&*].

WASHINGTON – Hillary Clinton’s campaign today rejected suggestions that the Democratic Party’s Rules and Bylaws Committee might only be authorized to seat half of the disallowed delegates from Michigan and Florida.

The Associated Press first reported last night on a memo from party lawyers in advance of Saturday’s meeting of the committee to discuss seating of the delegations. In it, an analysis says a strong argument can be made that party rules automatically require a state to lose half its delegation if it violates bylaws for scheduling a primary and the Rules Committee can’t do anything about it.

The Rules Committee earlier stripped both states of all of their delegates for scheduling early primaries. Now, with the party’s presidential nomination still undecided, Saturday’s meeting has been called to determine if there’s a way to bring them back into the fold and avoid a nasty floor fight at the convention.

Clinton’s campaign wants the delegates apportioned just as she won them in both primaries, which would help her argument of electability to superdelegates – or so she and her advisers hope. She would take an edge in the popular vote if those states counted – as long as caucus voters nationally were not counted and the uncommitted vote in Michigan, where front-runner Barack Obama’s name did not appear on the ballot.

I think the protest by the Clinton supporters is a good thing. If Hillary gets the nom, then the better the chances the Democrats have in November IMHO.

Edited May 28, 200817 yr by Mulder

So I'm watching ABC news tonight, and there's a story on Hillary vs. Barrack and I got a chuckle from listening to this part:

Charles Gibson: Now to presidential politics. And what amounts to a tale of two campaigns. The primary season ends next Tuesday. Hillary Clinton is arguing as aggressively as she ever has that she should be the nominee. However Barrack Obama and John McCain are all but ignoring her, as if the general election campaign has already begun. Here's ABC's Jake Tapper.

ABC NEWS VOICE: South Dakota's Mt. Rushmore may be as close as Hillary Clinton gets to the Presidency this last week of the primary season. She needs almost 90% of the remaining delegates to win the nomination. So she's pushing her electibility to Super Delegates with this exaggerated claim:

Hillary (they show a clip from a recent speaking rally): And based on every analysis, of every bit of research and every poll that's been taken and every state that a democrat has to win, I am the stronger candidate against John McCain in the fall.

ABC NEWS VOICE: But the Clinton campaign has been making this general argument for months to little avail. Since May 6, when Clinton won Indiana and Obama won North Carolina, 9 super delegates have endorsed her, 63 have gone for him.

They continue on with the story and show that Gov. Ed Rendell (D-PA) predicted that the rest of the super delegates will back Obama. They show clips of Obama and McCain only talking about each other, not mentioning Hillary whatsoever.

At the end, Jake Tapper (the reporter) says, "Democratic sources on Capital Hill tell ABC news that a number of Hillary Clinton super delegates are talking about switching to Barrack Obama next week. Probably right after the June 3rd primaries on Tuesday."