GH: Discussion For Week Of oct 29th...

[Cheap21]

Liz has had her tramp moments over the years and she has been a lying tramp in this story. Back in summer of 2002, when she was so fickle between Jason and Zander. She was so into Jason, yet jumps into bed with Zander, but still wants to be with Jason but wouldnt let Zander go. She cheated on her first husband, Ric, with Zander. She was married to Ric but then goes and screws her best friend's husband and gets pregnant. Last year she has another one night stand while married to her next husband and again gets pregnant. The entire time she's been married to Lucky this last time, she's been lying to him and lusting after anoter man. Even when confronted about that, she's lied about being in love with someone, all while stealing kisses behind his back and professing her undying love to Jason and then goes back to Lucky so she can have both men. Are Lucky and Sam tramps? Of course they are based on their history and their actions but Liz is one in her own right and therefore has no room to pass judgement without looking like a fool since the same words she used apply to her as well.

[d_wsb]

EEEEEEEEE cassio!

it may take 9 years, but my Cassio waltzed again. ok maybe it was 5 seconds but i got it anyways!

and samiz fight fight! LMAO.. a punch is way better than a slap

oh but LL2! jiz/lusam got nothing on them.. you just cant destroy that history

[Wales2004]

We just have very different views on what consititues a tramp. Even though her being fickle isn't a great trait she wasn't sleeping with both Jason and Zander at the same time. She had two adulterous one night stands but even with that she's been with four men in a 10 year period and hasn't done anything remotely close to sleeping with two men in the same day. It doesn't excuse her adultery but she thought her marriage was over when she slept with Jason.

I am not going to comdemn her for emotionally cheating on Lucky because she shouldn't have married him in the first place so she's a liar and she's stupid for that and for not telling the truth about Jake. Kissing Jason doesn't consitiute her being a tramp by my standards. I don't agree that she doesn't have the right to say anything about Lucky or Sam because she's telling a lie. If she were doing what they are doing and condemning them for it then I'd agree but she's not.

In all honesty, I don't have a problem with her lying to Lucky about Jake. I have a problem with the length of the s/l and the flimsy reasons she's given for lying. Yesterday was Lulu's chance to step up and say that Lucky didn't need to be protected anymore but true to the bad writing that didn't occur. I don't have a problem with any of the lying that occurs on soaps as long as it's written in an interesting and entertaining manner because that's a soap staple. I'm not watching for morality, I'm watching for the opposite and if the characters are going to tell lies then make it huge and make the characters do it for a noble reason or because they're bad to the bone. This lie is pretty useless at this stage because as I said the reasons are flimsy and it's just hanging to drag this into eternity because once out it means they'll have to write another story which seems to be a hard thing to do.

Oh and I agree that Lucky is a tramp on top of adulterous, but Sam is on a whole other level above Lucky. She's got former prostitution, adultery, two men in a day, etc. which makes Lucky look almost virginal.

[JackPeyton]

Liz was a young single girl back when she was dating Zander and Jason. Nither one was her boyfriend, Nor was she sleeping with them. She was simply dating them and crushing on them both - i dont see how thats tramp/slut/whore at all. Did she even sleep with Zander at that point? even if she did its far from any kinda slut move .... Moving on, she married Ric, who was/is a crazy [!@#$%^&*], Well we all know that went and she and him seperated/divorced. Not to long AFTER her and Ric were over, she went to Jake's bar and got drunk. Zander, who just found out his wife Emily was cheating on him, was also there drunk. The two hooked up. Yes, Zander was married to Emily, Her BFF, however Em ily was cheating on Zander. This is perhaps Liz's most sluty move, onyl because he was tech married to Emily. However, she got prego, and had the baby. Zander didnt want the baby, She didnt want get rid of it, She and Ric had slept together not long beofre her and zander tho so at first she let him think he was the dad but told him the truth - he didnt care. she then relized why she divorced ric the first time and left him again. Then she got back with Lucky, he became an abusive druggie who cheted on her. She knew her marriage was over and left Lucky. She went to Jasons, one of her best friends, and Jason had just saw his whore Sam doing her step daddy Ric. Jason & Liz slept together. She then got prego - didnt want her baby to be in danger, let everyone assume lucky was the dad, got back with lucky, that didnt work out and he started sleeping with Sam. Since then Liz has stayed away from Jason.

Im msorry but i just dont view this is a slut or a whore. In the course of what... almost 10 years now... Liz has slept with Jason, Zander, Lucky, and Ric. Sam on the other hand... where to even begin with her. SHE IS A WHORE! plain and simple. i don t have a problem with it and love her. however, she is a whore. jax, sonny, jason, ric, lucky, others im sure. in what... 3 years? But whatever, i love them both.

But man - i wish Liz would tell Lucky about Jake - an about what his new lay did.

[Cheap21]

Thank you Sam for finally punching Elizabeth. Liz should have known that Sam isnt Courtney and wouldnt just stand there and take a slap without knocking her with her fist. The hair pulling was lame but that punch was the highlight. Its something I felt she's been deserving for a year now and Ive been waiting for it. Good one Sam. Oh and did anyone else notice the symbolism that GH had going there. Liz in white = good, whereas Sam in black = evil.

Loved the Lucky and Liz scenes that preceded it. They have come full circle. 2 years ago today they got married right there on Wyndemere and I wish their wedding anniversary would have been mentioned. The dance was great and it put a smile on my face. I will always love this couple. Its too bad they had to get ruined so bad.

yes Liz did sleep with Zander. Jason showed up after it happened!

You have a few things wrong here. Ric and Liz were seperated but they were working on a reunion. Just that night he was her date for the Halloween party and they were together, laughing, dancing and were a couple. 2 hours later she was having sex with Zander. What she did qualified as cheating on Ric. Liz did not sleep with Ric not too long before Zander. She and Ric seperated in July; she slept with Zander on Halloween. She felt guilty about that which is why she lured Ric to that cabin to sleep with him for the sole purpose of lying and passing off the baby's as his. Too bad, that Ric saw right through her but he didnt hold her infidelity against her. You are at least right about it being slutty to sleep with her best friend's husband. You got another thing wrong though bc Zander DID want his baby. Liz lied to him for weeks about by keeping it a secret but it was Ric that urged her to fess up. Once Zander knew, he wanted it but Liz was determined to keep him from his son. She and Ric tried to railroad him into signing away his rights so that she could have her happy little family with Ric. Zander wanted to be a father but those 2 along with Nik and Emily tried to plot to keep that from happening.

Liz and Lucky are no longer together so her staying away from Jason means nothing. She wouldnt stay away from him when she was together with him until Sam scared her and even then she didnt do it bc she was trying to stay true to her husband. I klnow how she ended up at Jason's the night of the ONS. She cant really be faulted since Lucky had been sleeping with Maxie as well, but one sin doesnt wash away the other. They both cheated. She lied about hers and never fessed up about it to him. He had to find out during a murder trial. She is a liar and ranks up there as one of the biggest liars in PC. What I hate about Elizabeth is that she loves to call people out on their sh-t when she has her own sh-t. This is nothing new. Last December, she was so quick to call Maxie out on lying about being pregnant with Lucky's baby when she was doing the same thing. She has no problem calling Carly selfish when it comes to Jason and running to him with her problems or accusing Sam of playing victim just so Jason can save her. Of course all can be applied to her as well. Bitch, look in the damn mirror before you condemn people.

I dont think that Liz is a slut or a whore. Those words have a much more negative connotation which I dont htink applies to her. But for her to use the term lying tramp, seems a bit hypcrtical of her as she's been the same in several points in her history and most recently in teh story which she is currently going through.

Too bad Jason is blackmailing her as well as threatening to kill her, bc I would have loved it if Sam would just tell him already since Liz sure isnt

[JackPeyton]

Hey Cheep, thanx for pointing that stuff out. Cuz i sure as hells forgot half of it... didnt Liz & Zander also get held captive in some grave or something as well? man... i loved those two. idk why for some reaosn i thought zander didnt want the kid, cuz he did. wasnt this not to long after his dad came on and we found about his brother. oh.. then liz hit him over the ehad with that pipe before the fire.

And srsly Cheep, thnx for once again proving why i come here, great posting with amazing soap fans that dont argue and name call, but debate things.

I agree with everything up mtil Liz going to Jasons and sleeping with him. Yes she was tech still married, but as far as she knew her marriage was over as her husband was on drugs and sleeping with maxie. And if you wanna get really tech when Sam slept with Lucky he was married to Liz.

Also, i agree about the good girls in white... lulu, liz... bad girls in black, maxie and sam. it made me lol. but sam dress looked like some cheep kmart thing. why? shes a freakin tv star. im sure the girls some glamours black dress. Lulu & Nadine do look amazing. and wow, i love Kirstens hair. It looks even better in person.

Those LL2 scenes were amazing. I loved them dancing in the courtyard like they did at the last big ball when they were kids. Loved the catfight between sam and liz. and Liz couldnt have been more correct when sam asked her if she was calling her a liar. i forget exactly what she said but it was spot on. Its not about sam lyin, cuz everyone does it.. its the fact that sams a selfish bitch. i hope she falls hard for lucky, the truth comes out, and he leaves her ass for good.

[Wales2004]

It would have been shocking if you had said that Sam was wrong for provoking the fight in the first place which she was. It apparently hurt her to see her date dancing with the woman she hates so much and if she wanted to tell Lucky the truth she would despite what Jason threatened....just like she would tell him about Jerry's threat on his life as well She would also tell him about how she watched Jake get kidnapped and how she hired those thugs and lied which would wipe the slate clean.

Elizabeth shouldn't have slapped Sam in the first place. That whole little scene was silly and would have been more of a change if Elizabeth had actually instigated it but it had to be Sam and her bitterness yet again. Elizabeth won't get what she deserves until she sees the look of agony, disgust and whatever else on Lucky's face when he learns the truth. Sam and Elizabeth's fighting is nonsense because Elizabeth didn't take anything away from her nor did she take anything away from Elizabeth even though she slept with her husband (since Elizabeth didn't care). Elizabeth did have the right to get in her face about the things Sam did to Jake and I could see where she'd want to hit her but she shouldn't have.

The person Elizabeth is hurting is Lucky not Sam and Sam is not being defensive of Lucky. She's just being more pathetic standing around watching. Lucky brought her there and she should have let him know that she saw them dancing so he could soothe her ego instead of going after Elizabeth yet again.

Since it's a B/W and there are only two dress choices then any potential symbolism went out the window. Black is an elegant color for an evening gown plain and simple. If there were going to be symbolism then all the goody two shoes would have been in white and I don't think Alexis qualifies as a bad girl nor Georgie despite the white trim on her dress.

I thought Lucky and Elizabeth got married in 2005 and considering that they didn't even make it to a year before things fell apart then it doesn't make sense to mention an anniversary when they didn't even celebrate a uear together before heading for divorce. This time they made it to about six months. There really wasn't anything to mention. What they talked about was sufficient. It's just too bad that JJ isn't the one playing Lucky because that scene would have probably had more meaning and depth to it instead of the disconnect from their past.

[Cheap21]

Yeah Liz got kidnapped and held in a crypt and Zander while trying to find her, ended up getting kidnapped as well. I beleive it was Jason who saved them.

Thank you! I enjoy posting here with you as well

She does want to tell and the only reason she isnt doing so bc she could either face jail time or be murdered by Jason. Those are whats keeping her in line about the secret.

Well I did say that Lucky has been acting like a tramp too. He is still legally married to Liz but that marriage is essentially dead and just waiting for the papers to be finalized.

You are right, Sam's dress could have been better. Kelly is beautiful and deserved a dress more flattering on her. Maxie's hair did look good. It looked very Kate Howard like. Oh I liked Georgie bringing Coop as a date. I wouldnt mind if GH tried them

Maybe not if you are looking at it in terms of everyone, which I was not. In those scenes with Liz and Sam, there definetly was some symbolism. I dont think it was a simple coincidence that Sam was the one to wear the black dress and Liz, the white one bc it could have easily been reversed

They did marry in 2005. I was thinking that but wrote the wrong number down. My mistake

[JackPeyton]

Oh, i miss Zander so much.... I loed him a lot at the end, esp when they hinted at a romance between him and maxie. Zaxie...

Kirsten's hair is super cute in person, its kidna styled like they do it on GH, but a bit diff. The back part that is super short is in lose curles and the front part that hangs low around her chin is stright. The color looks great on her as well, but in person she looks much more tan than on GH.

[RuAsRuAnAu]

For your information, it was not rant. I was just pointing out what type of person Sam is: a slutty, vindictive, borderline alcoholic adulterous woman. I'm not a fan of Sam. I do not even know who Liason is. Is that a GH: NS character?

I NEVER watch a show because of a fanbase/couple/whatever. I watch a show for the majority of characters. Not doing so is a waste of time. Hey Tracy Quartermaine fans, I am talking to you. I love Tracy & Jane Elliot, but I do not watch solely because of her. If I did, I would have lost interest in the show a long time ago. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.

I wanted very badly for Elizabeth to whoop Sam's ass like Carly did back in August 2007. And yes, Carly did WIN that fight.

[JackPeyton]

wow just go ahead and assume i was talking about you.

and i couldnt agree with you more about who sam is - and thats why i love her. YOU dont know who Laison is? what? come on Ru, I thought u knew all there was to know about soaps... Laison is huge and has been for like 8 years now. Elizabeth & Jason!!

Why must u call out Tracy Q fans? Im not really into her, but i must admit those fans are my fans of daytime on this board. U know why? because they have the I Heart Tracy Q thread and stick to it. They dont come into every single thread and boost Tracy love and clalout those who dont and provoke fights. God, i hope when i was like 16 and first came to this board and was Belle Black obsessed i never acted like this - and if i did im sorry to you other longtimers still here.

In all honestly, Sam could kick Liz's ass. As much as i LOVE Liz, Sam is a fighter. Liz is... not. Tho i do kinda miss that old trouble maker bad girl Liz. But whatev, I honestly think Elizabeth Webber has one of the greatest char devolpments and evolution in recent soap history. from who she was, to who she is, and everything inbetween.

anyways... cheers to all u fellow Sam, Maxie, Liz, Lulu, Carly fans out there for not feeling you must pick a side.

[Wales2004]

Then she shouldn't go around starting fights and she shouldn't let spite cause her to do things that would land her in jail. But what is a good reason for not telling Lucky about Jerry? She can tell Lucky that Jerry threatened to kill her if she told but that would be too simple.

The truth is that I try not to give GH that much credit for thought provoking writing. Besides I'd have to buy into that whole concept of black being evi/badl and white being good and then believe that Elizabeth is pure good. Compared to what Sam's done, Elizabeth's trangressions are closer to stealing a cookie out of the cookie jar but she's still no angel. Anyway, you're probably right that they were going for symbolism and if they were then they need to give that a rest.

Yesterday was the first time that I've found Spinelli thoroughly annoying. He was like nails across a chalkboard to me. His innocence would be refreshing if his whole universe didn't revolve around Lulu as in they should have picked someone else for him to adore.

[Skin]

Is anyone else tired of Logan's anger issues? This is the fourth time that he has attacked a woman. He would have pounded Maxie into a pancake had Cooper not stopped him, he physically held Lulu down so she couldn't run away, tried to intimidate and force Carly to take him to Lulu and now was going to hurt that poor blonde girl for no real reason. Logan seems to have this thing for beating up on the ladies and that's just no cool.

[stenbeck212]

Does it get any better than Alexis threatening to kick Rick's ass?

[Wales2004]

I couldn't help but notice and I thought there he goes again. The sad part is that people are supposed to overlook it because he's searching for Lulu who makes him a better person and he only needs to repeat that over and over again with the line about how he made a mistake. He gets more unappealing every time he does something like that.