Reading a post like this just reminds me of how badly Matt and Missy got screwed. Posters casually include SN&MBE in the big six. But Matt and Missy were never treated like mega-stars. Except they were once the biggest stars on daytime. They were NOT comic relief. When they returned they deserved good character portrayal, good airtime and good story.

But the show just blew it. They had a couple of mega-characters and they just walked away from them. There was no reason for it. And, sadly, most posters here probably don't even know what I'm talking about.

Oh well....what might have been.

Steve

I was only including characters and actors on the show, not ignoring their importance to the show. But if Matt and Melissa were still on the show I would say "the big eight," Steve and Kayla were just as important as Jack and Jennifer, not more, not less.

I agree it's almost impossible to tell a down to earth story with John after everything he's done and been, and that he and Marlena can be campy jokes. I wouldn't know what to do with them myself at this point, I think they've become ridiculous.

The problem is that, albatross for the show or not, they are so deeply emblematic of it at this point that I really worry what it will do to the show's identity to a general audience to see him gone and her adrift.

First of all guys, it's never productive to put words in anyone else's mouth. If they disagree with you, just let it be, don't accuse anyone of hating something simply because they want to be negative (or the opposite). We can all speak for ourselves.

Okay, I think there can be long-term benefits to this decision, but that benefit is really backstage, it's having that money freed up from Drake's admittedly sizeable salary. Nobody's loss is means the show will automatically fail, but that isn't to say that long-term favorites don't contribute sizeably either. Which means that if they're losing John Black they have to compensate somehow. As in, feature another big couple (Bo&Hope) and give Marlena something to do, have it feed in to a big storyline that is executed well and is thematically resonant. That's what I don't see happening, personally.

I don't think Hogan is going to stick to his word and write for Marlena either!

I totally agree. I don't expect Marlena to get much of a story out of this. A three week thing like J&M's little adventure in Italy? Something like that at best. An actual story? I doubt it.

... if the ratings take a turn down to about 1.3 or 1.4 -- where Passions was when it got canceled by NBC -- then you can argue killing John was indeed the straw that broke the camel's back.

Yes, keeping in mind though that sometimes shows recover and sometimes they don't. I think saying it's a foregone conclusion either way is simplistic, at this point it depends on how they handle the storylines and screentimes and balance and all that in the aftermath (they've already blown the build-up by having him have no more than 10 lines the entire year before his death). If the ratings don't recover, it'll be a touchstone for What Went Wrong, but the actual causes are always multifactorial.

weighing in with my own opinion, I think it was a combo of both. His large salary, and that Sheffer didn't get Hogestyn as an actor. I do think that Marlena will be more featured. I could be wrong, but my gut now says (after this week of shows), this is going to take Marlena in an entirely new direction. And heck, maybe this will allow the return of someone who wouldn't command the same salary; like say, Matt Ashford. I would recast Abby, then bring Jack back, popular character, new younger characgter, and then off we go

and that Sheffer didn't get Hogestyn as an actor.

I'm scared of anyone who still does after, say, 1995.

The fact is you can still mine John's labyrinthian history with using John on contract. I wouldn't mind seeing Marlena propelled into a mystery storyline where she tries to unlock some secret using clues from John "beyond the grave," either on videotape or notes or whatever. It would give Drake an opportunity to appear too, "guiding her." It would be interesting to see her mission upon his death be to settle the enigma of his true family and past history once and for all. Perhaps for a book about him, or so she can tell Claire someday.

Edited October 18, 200718 yr by Vee

I'm scared of anyone who still does after, say, 1995.

The fact is you can still mine John's labyrinthian history with using John on contract. I wouldn't mind seeing Marlena propelled into a mystery storyline where she tries to unlock some secret using clues from John "beyond the grave," either on videotape or notes or whatever. It would give Drake an opportunity to appear too, "guiding her." It would be interesting to see her mission upon his death be to settle the enigma of his true family and past history once and for all. Perhaps for a book about him, or so she can tell Claire someday.

Actually, that is such a good idea! John's past was almost more important than John as a character. As for Drake the actor, something happened through the years, where he just lost whatever charisma he used to have. I think when he was younger, he was so goodlooking and charismatic, that it was more important than the actual acting ability. but now... he just lost whatever he used to have. However, I bet we see him back on the soaps soon. Probably B&B!!!! lol

They needed a death that would have an impact. I know that everyone (with one notable exception) hates most of the youngsters, but let's face it, no one would care all that much if DAYS killed off Stephanie. By killing a major character, DAYS is taking a gamble, and hoping that it will draw back some of those lost viewers, and that they might remain. And yes, they might lose more viewers, but at this point, what have they got to lose? The show will be canceled very soon if they don't take action quickly.

Now I should preface this by saying that my heart really does go out to all of Drake's fans. I know it is hard to lose a character you love, and I always think it is a shame when a show kills off a vet. But really, they essentially had to kill off one of the big four, for both the budget, and to attract fans. And if they had to kill off one of them, choosing Drake was wise. It's just my opinion, but Drake is, um... not good. I'll just leave it at that.

They needed a death that would have an impact. I know that everyone (with one notable exception) hates most of the youngsters, but let's face it, no one would care all that much if DAYS killed off Stephanie. By killing a major character, DAYS is taking a gamble, and hoping that it will draw back some of those lost viewers, and that they might remain.

Yes, but the point now is execution of the storyline. That "might remain" can only turn into "will remain" if they execute the story right. They still can do something to mitigate the hit they took in losing him, the question is, will they?

The track record says no, but technically it's still possible. They'd better deliver, once and for all.

I have been itching to weigh in so here goes.

Last year, among all the cast cuts there was a rumor going around that an Days icon had been fired. I believe that was Drake and that the plan was to kill him off back then with EJ shooting him. I think Hogan wanted to write for them but let's remember Corday has been trying to phase them out for awhile. John got used far more then Marlena early on in this decade and, in 2003, J&M began to get shoved a side with the exception of the SSK story. Marlena then got backburnered again several times once the story moved to the island and John got a story with Kate. Of course, then we got the Alex/amnesia story which had potential but was squandered. That story ruined J&M for me as Dee and Drake both began to act ridiculously over the top. The story was cut and J&M were sent away for 2 months. Upon their return, Marlena wants time away from John and we got the whole independent woman angle, which I think is what Hogan wants to go and he had Beth set that angle up. Marlena was kidnapped and then we saw J&M get some great stuff upon her return. Hogan was brilliant with them. I suppose you could say maybe that was set up for John's death but I do truly think Hogan liked them. I think it was more Corday and the fact that NBC was probably pushing for a big star to go because of the budget. My guess is Corday was scared, backed off, and fired RJ instead.

I think Hogan came up with the coma story fast. I read that Dee was told the dream story would give them great material and John would wake up in February but then it got pushed back and the story got cut for some reason, which seemed to happen around the time that the vets were tossed to the backburner. J&M got some pretty decent stuff when he first woke up too. They were involved right off the bat in the feud story between Bope's antics and the search to find Tony. After that, they both went MIA again and now we're here. I just think this is more Corday then Hogan.

Now, I do think it's about time Days took a risk because they need to make death real again. The suspense factor is gone because fans never expect anyone to die. Days fans always expect everything to end up ok and now I think John's death brings the show back to an emotional, character-driven, serious drama. It needed something huge to shift everything and this is it. It feels like the culmination of the past year of transition and uneven writing and balance. You almost get the sense the show is trying to show they are serious and they are risking it all to get back on top. Having said all this, Drake is the one I would let go of too because his character's history is so muddled and Drake is not the best actor, despite his popularity. His acting has gone downhill steadily in the last decade. This allows Days to use the other vets more efficiently because Drake's salary was huge and firing newcomers and young characters is not enough.

I have been saying for months that Days needs to tell the most compelling, dramatic stories they can. That is what will bring them back. No matter what they have to do. It's about the story and for years they have shied away from good stories to please fanbases. That can't happen anymore. They have nothing to lose. Ratings are down already. The hope is with powerful story like this, the show can attract general fans. Fans just looking for good drama or fans that watch Days to be entertained and not for one character or couple. I don't think it's lazy writing if Hogan can't write for Marlena with John there. I think John has brought Marlena down for years and I think this speaks to Days' big problem. They have so many vets that the characters they have played have been through everything. I can't even think of one thing J&M haven't done together. No one ways to see repetition so I think that is what it comes down to. Ed Scott is probably who pushed this. He saw the opportunity to tell a powerful, risky story that could pull Days back to it's emotionally gripping roots and, so far, it's done that. This has been the best week of any soap this year and I mean that. I have never cried this much watching anything. Never.

I just hope it's worth it in the end. I think it will be and I think we will see quite a bit of Marlena and the other vets now. We'll see if that is the case.

Very well put, Phoenixrising.

Great post, Phoenix.

And for those who are wishing for others to return... Ed Scott and company should take that money and put it to the bottom line of the show. Upgrade the technical aspects. Add a couple more sets. But if you take Drake's money and turn around and hand it to Matt Ashford it defeats the purpose. (Not to mention the Jack/Jen fans would go ballistic, but I ain't going there... )

Great post, Phoenix.

And for those who are wishing for others to return... Ed Scott and company should take that money and put it to the bottom line of the show. Upgrade the technical aspects. Add a couple more sets. But if you take Drake's money and turn around and hand it to Matt Ashford it defeats the purpose. (Not to mention the Jack/Jen fans would go ballistic, but I ain't going there... )

Well, Matt Ashford, would not command Drake's salary. And Jack and Jennifer fans would need to get over it, cause Jack is an important character separate from the couple

I have been itching to weigh in so here goes.

Last year, among all the cast cuts there was a rumor going around that an Days icon had been fired. I believe that was Drake and that the plan was to kill him off back then with EJ shooting him. I think Hogan wanted to write for them but let's remember Corday has been trying to phase them out for awhile. John got used far more then Marlena early on in this decade and, in 2003, J&M began to get shoved a side with the exception of the SSK story. Marlena then got backburnered again several times once the story moved to the island and John got a story with Kate. Of course, then we got the Alex/amnesia story which had potential but was squandered. That story ruined J&M for me as Dee and Drake both began to act ridiculously over the top. The story was cut and J&M were sent away for 2 months. Upon their return, Marlena wants time away from John and we got the whole independent woman angle, which I think is what Hogan wants to go and he had Beth set that angle up. Marlena was kidnapped and then we saw J&M get some great stuff upon her return. Hogan was brilliant with them. I suppose you could say maybe that was set up for John's death but I do truly think Hogan liked them. I think it was more Corday and the fact that NBC was probably pushing for a big star to go because of the budget. My guess is Corday was scared, backed off, and fired RJ instead.

I think Hogan came up with the coma story fast. I read that Dee was told the dream story would give them great material and John would wake up in February but then it got pushed back and the story got cut for some reason, which seemed to happen around the time that the vets were tossed to the backburner. J&M got some pretty decent stuff when he first woke up too. They were involved right off the bat in the feud story between Bope's antics and the search to find Tony. After that, they both went MIA again and now we're here. I just think this is more Corday then Hogan.

Now, I do think it's about time Days took a risk because they need to make death real again. The suspense factor is gone because fans never expect anyone to die. Days fans always expect everything to end up ok and now I think John's death brings the show back to an emotional, character-driven, serious drama. It needed something huge to shift everything and this is it. It feels like the culmination of the past year of transition and uneven writing and balance. You almost get the sense the show is trying to show they are serious and they are risking it all to get back on top. Having said all this, Drake is the one I would let go of too because his character's history is so muddled and Drake is not the best actor, despite his popularity. His acting has gone downhill steadily in the last decade. This allows Days to use the other vets more efficiently because Drake's salary was huge and firing newcomers and young characters is not enough.

I have been saying for months that Days needs to tell the most compelling, dramatic stories they can. That is what will bring them back. No matter what they have to do. It's about the story and for years they have shied away from good stories to please fanbases. That can't happen anymore. They have nothing to lose. Ratings are down already. The hope is with powerful story like this, the show can attract general fans. Fans just looking for good drama or fans that watch Days to be entertained and not for one character or couple. I don't think it's lazy writing if Hogan can't write for Marlena with John there. I think John has brought Marlena down for years and I think this speaks to Days' big problem. They have so many vets that the characters they have played have been through everything. I can't even think of one thing J&M haven't done together. No one ways to see repetition so I think that is what it comes down to. Ed Scott is probably who pushed this. He saw the opportunity to tell a powerful, risky story that could pull Days back to it's emotionally gripping roots and, so far, it's done that. This has been the best week of any soap this year and I mean that. I have never cried this much watching anything. Never.

I just hope it's worth it in the end. I think it will be and I think we will see quite a bit of Marlena and the other vets now. We'll see if that is the case.

BRILLIANTLY said.