beebs

Random aside: surprising to see The Big Showdown performing so well when it only lasted this one season, performing well above shows that had far longer runs (Wheel Of Fortune, in particular, which debuted January 1975). I suppose its mid-afternoon timeslot did it no favours, but you'd think they'd move it to a morning slot rather than just cancel it altogether with those numbers.

They've obviously kept this under wraps this long because if they'd announced her return in ANY capacity when it first happened, there'd be a mass meltdown in the online fandom, and I'm sure they don't want to hear mean things about their bestie, even if she has proven to be consistently bad at her job for decades.

Fascinating too, seeing as it's obvious that RTPP was finally starting to find its audience at the end, regularly netting ratings above 7.0, after languishing about 1.0 lower or worse in the summer of 1973. HTSAM lost that audience almost immediately, and never gained it back, despite improvements in its quality as its run progressed. Absolutely! SS had remained lower-rated, but competitive (mid-7.0s), up until Y&R's debut, and then shed 1.5 ratings points the week it moved, and never cracked 7.0 ever again. Any chance that show had to bounce back at that point was lost, it's evident. For CBS to move LOL clear across the schedule to that timeslot a few years later exposes THAT move as a tank job in the same way. Especially when you see that the 1973 move lost SS 20 affiliates (or about 8-9% coverage), overnight.

I suspect the fact that LMST aired right after ATWT and lost a SIGNIFICANT amount of their lead-in, which would cause no end of trouble for the rest of the lineup, made it an easy move for CBS to 3, where it could easily be dumped, running a distant third behind GH and AW. Too bad, in doing so, they basically caused the slow death of EON, when they could've just kept EON at 3 where it would've been competitive, if not for P&G dictating their shows air in a bloc. I'll never understand their logic in doing that. Just catching up on this thread, and am LOVING seeing all the new content. Much much thanks to you, as always, @JAS0N47 for everything you do!

I mean, in fairness, they were told so late in the game that the show would end that they didn't have time to edit the scripts before filming, as far as I've heard. The studio having to be repurposed in a rush to accommodate Olympic coverage. Even just watching this last week of the show in (almost) full, the show is in such good shape under Ann Marcus, it's an absolute tragedy they cancelled the show at this point. I'm sucked right into this Hal/Arlene/Ray story. Ray is such a LOSER, I could just see his jealousy leading Arlene right to Ray, a self-fulfilling prophecy, that could lead to anything, considering his ridiculous temper. The trial is setting itself up for Ben to probably end up back in jail, considering how useless Betsy is as a witness (if she even makes it through the trial). I absolutely love Tudi Wiggins, she's so THEATRICAL. You just KNOW they'd have played up how utterly dramatic she is if the show continued, especially with how 80s soaps were, and she'd be seen as one of the grand dames of the genre. It's been a joy to watch these episodes. How I hope more LOL appears soon.

Thanks again to @JAS0N47 for putting these together and tracking the data down. This is so cool to see the real world data for this period! Your work is incredible, and we really appreciate it!

So I finally got the chance to input the data for 1976. The 1975-76 season + summer that we have at this moment give some interesting data: 1975-76 (Jan-Sep 1976 only) 1. ATWT 9.5 2. Y&R 9.0 3. AW 8.9 4. SFT 8.4 4. GL 8.4 6. AMC 8.0 7. DAYS 7.8 8. LOL 6.9 9. DOC 6.8 10. GH 6.6 10. OLTL 6.6 12. EON 6.5 13. RH 6.3 14. SOM 5.3 CBS putting on an extremely solid showing, with four of the Top 5 soaps. LOL managing to be competitive through the first half of the year. The summer really ruined their momentum (they managed to tie for 6th with DAYS during May Sweeps and the early part of the year had them averaging 7.8 before things went south in the late spring). It seems that after DePriest left to write The Doctors in December 1975, LOL was written by a Paul & Margaret Schneider. They lasted til January 1977 when Gabrielle Upton took over writing duties. While DePriest built on Labine & Meyer's writing and helped solidify LOL in the ratings, the Schneiders managed to tank the show halfway through the year, which it appears they never recovered from, despite claims that Jean Holloway was the main culprit. ABC really struggling this year, with even AMC getting some questionable numbers many weeks in the spring. EON's early success being bogged down by the state GH and OLTL were in at the time, OLTL only beginning to really recover once being moved ahead of GH during the 45min experiment (which definitely had far better effects on OLTL than on GH, though both shows benefitted). ABC's main bright spot was in RH, which rather suddenly becomes a major hit in the Summer 1976, after months of fighting Somerset for dead last. It's really a shame RH never was able to maintain their audience from this era, considering their rather rousing success early on. The constant recasts and Labine/Meyer selling the show to ABC/losing creative control can't have helped matters, of course. NBC still rather steady, though DAYS is absolutely showing weakness at this point. The Mike Horton reveal probably was done at exactly the right time, but I feel like, just based on what I've read, that Doug & Julie having to fight Doug's ex- Kim before marrying was just one obstacle too far, and it feels just a bit too dragged out. I think if they'd married in 1975 or early 1976, it might have resulted in somewhat higher ratings, but also Kim doesn't feel like a formidable obstacle for them the way that Brenda Benet's Lee does in later years. Imagine if Lee were Doug's ex- instead of Kim? Elsewhere, the Doctors seems to be holding its own, though Margaret DePriest really doesn't seem to move the needle upward for them, but I'll give her credit for keeping things steady post-Pollocks, though having been an actress on the show previously, I'm sure that was a show she understood relatively well. HUGE numbers for SFT steadily through the season. It's surprising to know that the show would be cancelled just a few years later, especially after being a top-rated show for so long. Does anyone remember when Jennifer shot Eunice? I'd be curious to know how the show did that week (apologies if it was already asked and answered).

Also LOL still performing quite well six months on post-Labine/Mayer. Margaret DePriest seems to have been able to keep things afloat rather well at this point, keeping the show quite competitive vs. virtually anything at ABC. Will be interesting to see when things start to decline there. I am also surprised to see EON and OLTL getting identical coverage at this point. I wonder what caused affiliates to start dropping EON after this point, considering the relatively strong numbers they pulled. I assume it's down to preferring to air syndicated talk shows and the like in that slot (Donahue in particular), but these strong showings suggest that EON could have really thrived at 4 on ABC if more affiliates had kept it on and in sequence. Particularly once GH took off in '78. What could've been, etc.

Well, at @kalbir's request, I've come back to do the season + summers for the 1990-91, 91-92, and 92-93 seasons. 1990-91 1 . Y&R 8.0 (0.0) 2. GH 6.3 (-0.7) 3. AMC 6.0 (-0.3) 4. ATWT 5.9 (+0.1) 5. B&B 5.6 (-0.1) 6. OLTL 5.3 (-0.7) 6. DAYS 5.3 (-0.1) 8. GL 5.2 (-0.1) 9. AW 3.9 (0.0) 10. SB 3.1 (-0.4) 11. LOV 2.9 (-0.4) 12. GEN 2.3 (-0.2) 1991-92 1 . Y&R 8.3 (+0.3) 2. AMC 6.8 (+0.8) 3. ATWT 5.7 (-0.2) 4. GH 5.6 (-0.7) 5. B&B 5.5 (-0.1) 5. GL 5.5 (+0.3) 7. OLTL 5.3 (0.0) 8. DAYS 5.2 (-0.1) 9. AW 3.9 (0.0) 10. SB 3.0 (-0.1) 11. LOV 2.7 (-0.2) 1992-93 1 . Y&R 8.3 (0.0) 2. AMC 7.2 (+0.4) 3. B&B 5.9 (+0.4) 4. GH 5.8 (+0.2) 5. ATWT 5.7 (0.0) 6. OLTL 5.6 (+0.3) 7. GL 5.3 (-0.2) 8. DAYS 4.9 (-0.3) 9. AW 3.2 (-0.7) 10. LOV 2.8 (+0.1) 11. SB 2.6 (-0.4) A rare era of ratings gains after so many years of decline. Unfortunately, as we're all aware, short-lived. Y&R stays consistent while Agnes Nixon and McTavish revitalize AMC (before McTavish's hubris derails everything), gaining 1.2 in two years. ATWT hits #3 in 1991-92 despite losing 0.2 (such is the state of things at that point, with ABC and NBC soaps struggling). DAYS bottoms out in 1992-93, dipping below 5.0 for probably the first time since probably their first year. Shocking to see OLTL's continued collapse into 1991. The fact they'd lost viewers every year since 1987-88, dropping from 7.4 in 87-88 to 5.3 by 1990-91 before FINALLY stabilizing once Rauch was finally given the boot, Gottlieb really did manage to re-energize things, at least in the short term. Monty really messed things up at GH, helping them lose 1.4 during her time there, before Riche was able to quickly start turning things around with Bill Levinson and Maralyn Thoma (pre-Labine, of course). OUCH at AW's drop in 1992-93 at the end of Swajeski's run. I wonder how much of that drop was due to her stories sucking, how much was the other NBC soaps' declines, and how much was OLTL's recovery.

I don't remember Nick tanking, but I don't think it's good for the long-term viability of any show for actors to change roles over and over on the same show like they change socks. You disagree, that's fine. I'm not going to debate you.

NOPE! Just yet another random character that's played by an actor who's recently played a different major role on this show. Because nothing matters! To add insult to injury, Ron even added a "cute" little "you look familiar" scene when Everett first arrived between him and Gabi, which would've been fine if it weren't the face of her abusive ex- who she had to kill to get away from. But you know...

it would be a fabulous catalyst for some new stories, if done correctly. I'll try to leave my cynicism about the realities of this at the door, but there's possibilities!

Yeah, the initial story began in 1970, so it was all Bell (and eventually PFS) that guided the story. I appreciate Bell not wanting to forever retread ground he'd already covered in that way. While a successful formula for DAYS in the 80s, it can easily (and did) become contrived, and I suspect Bell wasn't much a fan of formulaic writing.

I definitely sent in a snarky comment about the daytime Emmy "apparently not being a REAL Emmy" which they didn't post, so I get the feeling there were more people who were less than pleased than what we're seeing.

They have an open comments section you don't have to register for. I'm just saying, for no particular reason 😗🎶

Well then, you're gonna struggle around here cos with that way of thinking, you'll have about 70% of this forum blocked by the end of the month. It's giving "we've discovered computer effects with a green screen and we're very excited about it!" The 1990 ad is probably just promoting a one-off Halloween episode, as I don't think it fits into any ongoing stories from that period that I can recall.

Hey @carolineg! Thanks, I know I've been pretty absent for awhile 😅 NBC really never did have consistent tone after the 70s, I agree. And the fanbases of each of their shows would be resistant to ANY attempt to align "their" show with any of NBC's other shows, particularly in the 90s when NBC was trying to refashion AW into DAYS-lite with the Justine stuff and the Lumina mess (not that I disagree with the outcry, in this case). Very much a case of them seeing a viable idea for a show and hoping it stuck, regardless of whether it worked for their lineup. I suspect part of it was not having nailed down a strong writer to any of the shows to cultivate this identity, despite having Nixon and Bell in the 60s and 70s. ABC took on Nixon as their figurehead to set the tone for their soaps, and CBS took on Bell (obviously taking the reigns from Irna Phillips and P&G). If NBC had maybe nailed down the Dobsons (if SB had performed better, naturally), or Lakin, it might have worked out better for them. The closest NBC came to this was with Reilly, but we all know how THAT turned out.

FIGURES! LOL They couldn't help themselves! I think it's interesting, because, thinking about what niche NBC filled when they were successful during the late 60s and early 70s, and it seems clear that they were initially the home of younger, more progressive viewers, but once Bell left DAYS, Nixon left AW, and Rita Lakin left DOC, ABC sort of...scooped the audience NBC had been cultivating. This left NBC sort of floundering after that. They didn't really have a stronghold market in daytime to latch onto the way ABC and CBS did. NBC had made their name on game shows, and once that bubble burst in the late 80s, there wasn't much to prop up the daypart.

It's funny, because I have somewhat facetiously bandied about to friends about how I wished they'd spun Doug & Julie off into their own sitcom in the 80s, rather than drop the characters completely. Have them move away to start a new club in a new town with Robert, or something. Bo & Hope can come pop in on occasion etc. Considering Bill Hayes' warmth and levity, and SSH's comic timing and dry wit, they could easily carry a sitcom on their own, and if DAYS was no longer interested in keeping them around...

Yeah, these numbers explains a lot of what happened in 1978. Ann Marcus gave DAYS a real jolt, presumably because of the Sam/Marlena story, so I can see why she lasted as long as she did in the head writer spot, but she couldn't sustain the momentum. As for GH, they didn't look like they were doing so badly until the summer hit, and now they're some weeks only above EON. ABC's cancellation threats make a lot more sense now. The Pollocks may have been popular on The Doctors, but they were tanking GH, and would be out by September, with Richard & Suzanne Holland filling in for a month before Irving & Tex Elman come over from SFT for another month. Then Marland arrives at the end of the year. CORRECTION: looking at the Daytime Serial Newsletters, it appears Irving & Tex Elman arrive first in September 1977, and are out by mid-October, replaced with Richard & Suzanne Holland. Marland isn't credited as headwriter until some time in January 1978.

Yeah, and again, a 7.8 with only 67% coverage is EXCELLENT numbers. Tom Kennedy did a great job hosting this version and giving it something of a unique energy vs. Barker's show, and I think if there had been more of a push with individual affiliates to air this version against WOF/J!, or possibly expand it to an hour to combat the pair, it might have lasted longer, so I don't know why affiliates would be dropping it if it was doing this well. I suppose we'd have to take a look at the numbers a little earlier into 1986 to see how well it was holding up as the months wore on, but these numbers did genuinely surprise me, considering how the 1985-86 Syndicated PIR is generally viewed as a flop by all accounts.

Fascinating to me that the Tom Kennedy Price Is Right was deemed a flop, but had excellent ratings considering only having 67% coverage. I feel like, with a good push to individual markets, it really could have taken off as a strong competitor to the WOF/J! juggernaut.

This would've been the aftermath of John Wyatt's trial for Eunice's murder. I'm sure a lot of that is residual excitement from that storyline, at least. I dug up the Daytime Serial Newsletter for the month of April to be sure. There seems to be some excitement with Liza, if nothing else.

That explains DAYS' haste to oust PFS to some degree as well. Knowing her stories weren't working, and knowing an incredibly-strong AMC was to go up directly opposite them, I'm certain there was some major panic behind the scenes. Seems everyone's in a bit of springtime freefall at the moment, though ATWT and GL are keeping their numbers up rather nicely in spite of it all.

Before Reilly spun Vivian right off the edge, I had forgotten how similar her character had been to what Julie had been in the past, and to what they likely were expecting Julie to be upon her return. Marj Dusay's short run really highlighted the dangerous vixen energy Vivian was meant to have, and it's really unfortunate they didn't have much of a place for Julie in this era, other than to be Milquetoast Molly's sounding board.