dc11786

I've made it to the end of December, 1990. It's hard to tell who has done what because the credits aren't always included in my episodes. As of December 26, 1990, no executive producer is credited. Earlier in the month (c. December 6-7), Joseph Hardy is still being credited. According to the newspapers, Gloria Monty's first day back in the studio was December 4, 1990. So I imagine that Monty was at least making some choices by the on-air mid-December episode. 

December was a month of change, which wasn't uncommon on Palumbo and Hardy's GH. There is definitely some noticeable shifts in dialogue towards the end of the month that suggest that Monty may have been on set. On the December 17 episode, the Quartermaines are preparing for Christmas and Lila announces she has decorated the tree in yellow ribbons for the troops in Saudi Arabia. Monty stated the dialogue would include more real life references. A few episodes later (December 21st), Shep Casey is quickly shipped out. The papers state Bradley Lockerman was the first of Monty's victims.

Shep's departure would seem to mark the arrival of Monty and the purge sets in motion upon her return to the show. In the course of two episodes, Shep learns that Cheryl has been hoarding Christmas presents for Robert, which leads Shep to the realization that Cheryl is still hung up on Robert. In the next episode, Tiffany learns that Shep has optioned the out in his contract and is leaving the station and Port Charles. He leaves a cryptic comment to Tiffany and Sean saying that they should be careful about who their friends are. 

In other news, Decker has returned to town from Watson's break with a shift in personality. He now appears to have a bit of money and he wants to win back Dawn. They are leaning into Edge being after Dawn's money. The triangle isn't very engaging, but there are some nicely lit scenes where Decker confesses to a "sleeping" Dawn where her face is lit by the light coming through the blinds. I am realizing though that Watson is either not good at, or not interested in, the emotional scenes. I can see why Monty would want to dump them. Had Hardy stayed, I imagine Decker vs. Ned in business deals would have been what occurred much in the manner that Jenny/Ned/Paul/Tracy was a thing later on. 

The Willow Shore mystery is functional in the way the Conmargo surgery hostage situation was functional. The mixing of the hospital staff and the police crew works well. I noticed this worked well during the early Riche years as well with stories like the original Ryan Chamberlain story and even, to an extent, the David Langton story. In the last variation, the Willow Shore mystery now has brought in the police crew after keeping them sidelined (it seems like Tristan Rogers was off the show for a few weeks). It is Robert's return that seems to kick things up a notch when he realizes that there is a connection between Bobbie Jones and Broxton.

The show has centered a lot of the drama (smartly) around Bobbie Jones. Realizing the connection between Lucas and the Jeromes, Bobbie has become involved in a flirtation with Mark Broxton, the former Jerome attorney. Broxton has emerged as the sorta short term big bad that the show has engaged in a lot in recent months. He is not only the owner of Willow Shores, he was at the center of the search for Evan Jerome, Jr., and now he has proof that Lucas is Julian's son. Bobbie is slowly self-destructing. She is skirting around Broxton's attempts to sleep with her, she is keeping the truth about Lucas from Tony, and she is having a panic attack almost every time she sees Cheryl. 

Bobbie's emergence as a leading lady again after a year with not much story (Zeman's pregnancy kept her limited in her story) has been a pleasure. It is hard watching Bobbie be her own worst enemy, but the stakes are high enough (Lucas) that I can understand. It is hard to picture where they were going to go with Bobbie after this situation. I imagine Tony and Rita would have gotten together. 

Lucy and Alan's relationship is pretty much over. Tracy and Larry know about Scotty being the father of Lucy's child. There is a brief Larry/Tracy attempted romance where Larry proposes to Tracy, and Tracy considers saying yes not because of love, but because she wants to go after Lucy without people thinking she is bitter about losing Scotty. 

Colton and Carla are back. They get engaged pretty quickly upon return. Their current story is money issues with Colton looking to possibly sell the health club to get out from his debts. 

Cheryl is losing her grip on reality buying gifts for her dead son, who obviously is alive and is Lucas. Since Shep left, there is a shift that this is a Tiffany story, and it only feels more like that in early 1991 when Cheryl slips into a coma. Cheryl collasping into Robert's arms on New Years' Eve while presumably trying to tell him that he has a son is pretty dramatic, but doesn't even warrant an end of episode cliffhanger, which is a shame. 

Onto 1991... 

The Tracy stuff has improved so much since I started. I feel I get what they are trying to do with her by having her grapple with who she is as a person who she feels she should be as the head of the family. The spectre of both her parents haunting her in different ways as played by Jane Eliot is quite beautiful. The Tracy/Gregory stuff is sweet, but I'm mostly interested in seeing Tracy having to process what it will mean to love and lose another person. 

The will they and won't they with Jason and Carly is fine for now as a person who hasn't watched it a million times, but I imagine this is gonna grow old pretty quick. 

Lucy is a tough character. There have been so many versions of the character. I've never been a fan of Lucy the fool. It's a choice. I don't find it that amusing. I appreciate seeing Kin Shriner and Lynn Herring together, but I wish there was a bit more meat. I apologize if I asked, but does Lucy know that Cody is Dominique's son? If they are gonna tell this story, I think Lucy's reaction would be important if they aren't going to bring back Serena.

The movement in the Nina/Ava scenes was nice with Nina obviously falling for Ava's spiel because she wants to believe it. I also love that they've reverted back to Nina not liking Drew, which is deliciously refreshing and makes their eventual reunion more satisfying for me. Nina considering selling the hotel to win back Sonny is a nice angle to play because Nina has been nothing but desperate.  

I am not sure what journey Sasha is on, but I'm hoping the destination takes her far from Port Charles. 

@John Thanks for posting the credits. I don't always catch them and I know there has been some questions about the breakdown writers. 

I think Alan may have returned to the post. Tom departs in March, 1993, rightbefore the anniversary episodes. Tom wasn't appearing much anyway in 1993 before he was dumped, from what I recall. I might just be making that up though. Around the same time, you have the Ryan Chamberlain story peaking and everyone is involved in gaslighting him at the hospital leading to the Hardys being held hostage so they may not have taken a moment to replace the position. 

Regarding the history of the position, I believe Alan stepped down in late 1989 because he had assume the presidency of ELQ following Edward's death. It was used to bring Harrison Davis to town to continue telling the story of Tommy Jr.'s paternity.

I may have mentioned this in the "Port Charles" thread, but I think they should have considered using the Hardys as an anchor family on the spinoff. I would have had Debbi Morgan's Ellen tied to Harrison Davis somehow, either a blood relative or a wife/ex-wife, and revisited that dynamic. Matt Ashford left GH I think right before the spioff so they could have recast. 

6 hours ago, Vee said:

I'll have more on the rest of the week in a bit but I will say I think Kate Mansi may be becoming the stealth breakout of the new regime, on top of Watros and (somehow) CM as @titan1978 said. (Not that I don't think there is real value to Cameron when he is used well just as in his best days on AMC, as I've always said; it's just that he hasn't been for most of his tenure and it's made Drew unbearable for so long until very recently.)

The question is will the day to day slant on Nina get in CW's way, because it does vary. Yes, Nina is a spoiled, histrionic and delusional heiress; she always has been and that is true to form IMO. The issue is when the writing shows that yet also defaults too much back to The Life of Carly voice that has pervaded the show for so long. You can have one without the other.

Anyway, I think Mansi has been very good and is emerging as one of the strongest younger voice on the show. The issue at present is her stories. Blaze is not ready for the big time AFAIC despite some compelling ideas in that story, and the surrogacy needs to end ASAP. I also would rather keep BLQ single and unshackled, and I doubt Chase is going anywhere any time soon. I agree it makes no sense for Chase to be poor given his family lineage.

Sasha needs to go, preferably alone. I have zero interest in her saga of finding herself in horse stables, in the kitchen or on Bootleg QVC.

Mansi came on as Abigail when I was still watching "Days of our Lives" and I liked her from the beginning. She was usually able to do a lot with a little so I am not surprised that the writers are giving her more. The actress playing Blaze comes off like she is appearing on a sitcom for kids (Marci Rylan gave off similar energy). I hope that with some more introspection maybe the actress will develop more range. 

Sasha doesn't work. I find her and Cody bland. Cody could work as the aging himbo but I'd still probably only want to see him on recurring unless they found some place for him. I think him being Mac and Dominique's son is a bizarre choice even as someone who liked Mac and Dominique. I do think Dom was offscreen in late 1991 between actresses and there was space for them to say Dom had a kid then as she was locked in a psych ward, but I don't think she and Mac went to bed until after Shell Danielson was in the role because the sexual violence during her marriage to Leopold was a stumbling block for the couple in January, 1992. 

5 hours ago, carolineg said:

I also don't like Jason just buying it for Carly again.  Whatever work Carly put into building Kelly's/Bobbie's is now useless because a man bought her back a business.  Her own stupidity caused her to lose it in the first place.  It's not like Nina stole it from her.  I didn't mind Carly at Bobbie's honestly.

It just feels like they are leaning very hard into a Carly/Jason romance and that this is just another attempt for Jason to show how much he cares about Carly. I don't think it will work (for either Carly or the audience), but that's the sense I get.

4 hours ago, carolineg said:

From the way Alexis reacts I assume Nina's not doing a good job or not doing the job correctly.  Alexis clearly thinks all Nina's ideas are awful.  Idk, the last week was pretty much dumping on Nina for existing, so it's hard to say if these conclusions are correct.

I thought the scene where Nina rationalized the need for the gossip seemed a bit meta, saying it cannot be hard hitting, topical every day that there needs to be some sleaze in there too. 

7 minutes ago, Vee said:

Yeah, she doesn't like the style of Nina's journalism but she can't deny it's a success. Something Gregory noted a while ago. Not that I think we'll see much of Nina at the Invader/Intruder? either.

The Cellar. Got a huge special episode rollout with the old lady from Titanic and then I think we never saw it again lol.

I would imagine once Alexis gets her law license back that the most you'll see if the gossip reporter appearing at social events or trying to get Intel somewhere. That's what I imagine from very limited viewing the modern era. 

Gloria Stuart played Faith Rosco's grandmother who I think Faith murdered. I remember watching that back in the days of SoapNET. 

I thought the post-hook up conversation between Nina and Drew was very strong. I thought Drew's comment about needing more than 45 minutes of fun from Nina was hilarious. I think the dynamic is interesting and I can't wait to see it continue. 

I expected Nina to improve under Mulcahey's pen with Cynthia Watros in the role. Cameron Matheson's blossoming as Drew is really the shock. I am finding Drew's scenes among my favorites. Moving into the wellness and fitness arena will allow the show to move more into the hospital realm if they do it right. I think everything is heading in the right direction, but it still seems like it's in flux. 

The Nina bashing regarding Metro Court is heavy handed, which is a shame because I thought some of the actual plotting worked. The silly "firing Pierce" conversation actually played into the later Nina/John/Carly situation even if it was heavy on plot. Nina running up to tell Drew with Michael present really isn't going to help her case with Willow, but it seems Nina is her own worse enemy. 

Kristina and Blaze's conversation regarding her staying professionally closeted was interesting. I haven't kept up with all the gay stories on soaps, but has an American show done this? I imagine some of it was done with Maya on "Bold and the Beautiful" though that story was slightly different. I think Kristina's arc is developing nicely.  The T.J./Marshall scenes seem to show that they will be continue the conflict over the family dynamic rather than jumping into Kristina just wanting to keep the baby (which she may do in the end). 

The Lucy stuff is not appealing. I think Lucy can be a hard character because she has evolved so much and different people might enjoy different versions of her. I didn't like the Home and Heart scenes because they were unnecessarily humiliating. I did appreciate the conflict between Maxie and Lucy over Maxie's loyalty to Brook Lynn and how Lucy saw that as a conflict of interest.

Alexis' arc regarding her return to law is fine. I am curious if they will follow up on who her source is in the D.A. office. I like the Molly/Alexis conflict as I suspect it is going to become more and more contentious when Alexis gets her law license back. I appreciate that Alexis' meeting will be at the same time as Brook Lynn and Chase's wedding leaving Tracy free to act as Tracy's defacto date. 

The Brook Lynn/Chase stuff is fine, but I still struggle to figure out what is A-story vs. B story because a lot of stuff is more day to day rather than long story. I thought the Tracy/Brook Lynn stuff about Chase being more traditional was intriguing, but it is  hard remember the social strata when everyone's set looks the same. I know the Quartermaines have money, but it's not like Chase should be struggling. Gregory is a doctor and Jackie was a reporter so it's not like they grew up clipping coupons and counting pennies.

I thought the insight into Tracy's life is interesting. I imagine they will revisit a bit of Tracy's grief over Luke with her interest in Gregory.  

14 minutes ago, Vee said:

Judging by CM's interview about their hook-up in the spoilers section (only pertaining to today and tomorrow) I don't think this is any ploy, at least not right now. It seems like Drew has a sense of humor about things. I just hope it's not a one-off because tbh these two crazy fools getting together is one of the main points of interest on the show right now. Again, it was one of the hottest, least tame sex scenes GH has done in many years and Watros and Mathison know how to deliver that from the old school.

I am trying to be spoiler free for once in my life lol so I haven't read the article. I only asked because the fact that they brought up how Nina was asking for help with her child while mentioning how Drew was kept from his by Nina's involvement in his SEC fraud imprisonment was an interesting lead up. Also, with the hinted at Jordan/Drew angle, I wasn't sure if there was more to the story. Personally, I love the idea of Drew and Nina as a sorta hot mess powercouple.

4 hours ago, Bright Eyes said:

"You're such a boy scout."

"A real man lets a woman say no."

"Did I say no?"  - - That was hot! Cameron Mathison still has an insane body. This version of Drew makes me understand how he was initially cast as Ryan Lavery the conman, because I had only ever been privy to the holier than thou, can do no wrong Mary Sue version.

It is a damn shame Leslie Charleson is out of commission because her presence and POV under this regime would elevate things even moreso.

During the Willow/Michael scenes all I could think about is the fun fan-wanking that happened here about her being a secret villain. Her mentioning specifically that it's still all Michael's money and not hers ... if she somehow finagles her way into those millions legally, maybe villainWillow could still be a thing.

I thought there was a lot nice setup here. I think Nina on the board of Aurora in order to get closer to Michael and eventually Willow is intriguing. There seems to be an attempt to rebuild a business community, which I hope they follow through on especially if they maintain the civic angle as well. The hook up with Drew and Nina worked for me. I'm curious to see how this will play out. 

I caught the line by Willow and I thought they were alluding to the fact that she might lean into the money from Nina and the Reeves clan down the line. 

4 hours ago, John said:

Things I liked:

Nina/Drew: Been saying that would happen and they both went in for it. This could make them both interesting

John/Carly: They do have Chemistry and are good actors

Kristina/Sonny: Loved the Dad/Daughter Talk and that Kristina is wary of Ava

Ava: Still wondering what her end game is

Willow: Understand she wants to be stay at home while her kids are young

Not Liking:

Diane/Jason: There was zero need for those scenes just Diane giving history that wasnt all correct

Michael: He seemed to happy that Willow wanted not to work. Seems like he wants Willow to be a Society/Stepford Wife

I appreciate how some of the focus in the Kristina/Sonny/Ava scene was on just Kristina reacting to the dynamic between Ava and Sonny. I also think there is just a lot of nice beats played. Sonny learning Nina was back at Crimson leading him to question Ava, who had a good deflect. Ava's manipulation works well for me. I hope that Ava blows the lid on Drew and Nina's hook up to Sonny. I really want to see Maura West and Cynthia Watros tear each other to shreds. 

Some of the Diane stuff intrigued me because it almost sounded like the government signed off on Jason's death certificate in order to investigate his holdings, but would hey really need to do that? Or did I misread the situation?

I feel like Willow should suffer some consequence for her stealing the meds. I don't need her to lose her license, but I think it is a beat that needs to be played. I will be curious if Willow will quit before it becomes an issue or if this will just set up her life post-hospital work. 

32 minutes ago, Vee said:

That was just one of many crazy lines of dialogue over the last couple years lol. Everyone (but especially Psycho Drew in recent months) has wanted to wear Nina's entrails for fine jewelry, so I was fine with any change. He's been a little nuts but the character softened towards Nina considerably with the writing change and that's when their cute whole love/hate office banter thing started; he no longer talks about her like he's waiting in her pantry with a butcher knife for revenge re: his prison sentence. They try to push that 'he is an abuser!' line because they're Sonny/Nina stans.

Are we sure that revenge isn't Drew's endgame here? Seems like they could very much go the route that Drew is building up Nina's dependence on him which could lead to an even bigger fall for Nina when she realizes that Drew is only playing her. Also, if Drew happens to hurt Carly in the process, that would just be icing on the cake.

I think what I appreciate the most about what I am seeing with the show in general is the potential. There are many directions that the show can go in.  

@carolineg You were asking about Tom Hardy's role at the hospital. He was a psychiatrist, but in November, 1990, he was promoted to assistant chief of staff. This is probably would you were remembering. He replaced the departed Harrison Davis, who was briefly presumed to be the father of Tommy Jr. Before Davis, I believe the position was held by Alan Quartermaine, but I might be wrong on that. Maybe he held it afterwards. 

I'm in mid-December, 1990. Joseph Hardy's final days are a bit bittersweet. I find the story with Rita Lloyd Jones to be quite compelling still. Frisco has discovered she was getting money sent to her in San Francisco by a series of men and assumes she must be a high end call girl. It's an odd angle for Frisco to harp on given Bobbie's history. It's almost as if they are purposely trying to make Frisco look bad. Anyway, Rita remains a pretty neutral character despite being pushed into the center of Tony and Bobbie's marital issues. Not only is she lending Tony an ear so he can talk about his issues, she has run into Bobbie on several occasions going into Broxton's suite at the Port Charles Hotel (Bobbie is there to get proof about Lucas' adoption). In the later episodes when Monty is there, Rita is portrayed as a clear schemer and quickly run out of town by Scorpio. 

The Edge/Dawn relationship continues in Decker's absence. Now that Edge isn't a Jerome he is said to be pursuing Dawn because he thinks she got a huge divorce settlement from Ned. Obviously, this isn't the case as she is living at Willow Shores. Dawn is now pretty sick in the hospital as the polluted water continues to wreck havoc on her system. Dawn has also managed to get involved in some modeling for Frankie, who clearly wants Dawn and has used her to further his own chances to work with Edge on the music video he will be producing for Frisco. It's all very plot heavy with not enough introspection. 

Cheryl seems to be losing touch with reality more and more each day. The show seems to continue to build towards the revelation that Lucas is Robert's son, but I think Monty undoes that pretty quickly. Her and Shep's relationship seems to be wrapping up as well as he is super jealous. Poor Bradley Lockerman. I think Shep has some potential, but I won't say I'll miss him. 

It was pretty wild realizing that it was Don Jeffcoat playing Robin's older boyfriend. It's actually a bit unsettling. 

The end of diamond caper is pretty silly. I've been working on some episode summaries for Palumbo's run of "Rituals" and I find myself seeing the same scenario play out: Scheming woman (Lucy/Taylor) trying to convince her potential suitor (Scotty/Logan) of her new ways with something ended up thrown into the lake (the diamonds/Taylor's sable coat). Scotty and Lucy are fun. Alan and Lucy are done. I think the show would have gotten more mileage out of Alan and Lucy's marriage if the baby had been Alan's and the child had lived. Monica raising Lucy's daughter would have been something else and filled the void of Dawn's loss. 

I'm not sure how far I got into 1991. It wasn't very far, but I know I was also jumping around. I'm morbidly curious to see the day to day, blow by blow deconstruction and reconstruction of Monty's 1991 "General Hospital."

4 minutes ago, Vee said:

I have begun to wonder based on LW's public comments if they're not actually pairing them up again, which would be very intriguing since there's been a lot of internal exploration of Jason and his effect on his family and loved ones instead lately. Reconceiving both characters is badly needed IMO.

I have zero interest in Wagger and Carly, but AH has done a very strong job IMO with better scripts recently and there is a tick of chemistry. I still feel this would come off better for me with an actor similar in look to Sabato, like Paul Anthony Stewart or Jordi Vilasuso.

I mean if you are faking your death and keeping away from your kids, I would hope that they would at least explore a relationship between Jason and Carly. Either way, Jason comes off pretty bad, but I think it's worse if they don't at least try and go there. Not that I necessarily need that. 

Paul Anthony Stewart would have worked. Hard pass on Vilasuso. 

10 minutes ago, Vee said:

I have no idea. I suspect Wagger (White Jagger, as I will always call him) was a pre-PM/EK move because he tended to do nothing but wander around mouthing clumsy expository dialogue til the writing change.

That was kinda why I was asking. He seems to have purpose with his role in Jason's return, but otherwise, he just feels kinda there. I don't hate Adam Harrington, but even though Anthony Sabato, Jr. wasn't the strongest of thespians I always feel there is a level of pain just below the surface with his performance (whether it is missing his brother and sister or pining for Karen). I just find Harrington rather cold. He seems more than competent, but John Cates feels like a different person than Jagger.

10 minutes ago, Vee said:

PM and EK both wrote a ton for classic Jason and Carly in the mid-late '90s. PM in particular has expounded at length about becoming enchanted with Sarah Brown when she was hired, and writing a ton of her material while the character remained controversial BTS from the jump (apparently because of concerns about a message re: adoption). These writers created their very hot and heavy friends with benefits relationship in '96. I think they wrote their best work, and I do think they've taken pains to start putting Jason in particular back to basics in some ways (living above Kelly's). I generally always want Jason exterminated and/or gone and have little use for him myself, but I agree he's a necessary evil and do think the material thus far has been pretty compelling and I will give Steve credit for actually showing up to act so far this time. LW always sells her share of the work of course, but it's not the same for me without Sarah Brown and I will be curious to see how Mulcahey adjusts, as he wrote entirely for Sarah's Carly and was extremely fond of the actor who he helped craft Carly with.

I am definitely aware of Mulcahey's feelings on Carly. I also really enjoy Laura Wright as a performer (from not only "Loving," but "Guiding Light"). I still don't necessarily get a sense of where all this is going for Carly as she seems sorta consumed with Jason's return that I cannot really get a handle on what they will do with her. I think Eden McCoy does a good job emulating some of Wright's mannerisms and I don't find Joss as painful as I expected, but I definitely don't root for her as a heroine rather as a self-absorbed catalyst for drama. I thought Carly's role as talk-to for Joss' dilemma with Dex was compelling given Carly's only place in the mob world. I suspect we might end up with Jason/Carly/John, which I think could be a surprise hit or a complete disaster.

I am also curious to see how Mulcahey handles Carly without Bobbie. One of the strongest moments I saw in the last couple weeks (of many strong moments) was Carly trying to recount seeing Jason and discussing how she had to tell him Bobbie had died. 

12 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Adam J. Harrington auditioned at the same time that Charles Mesure did & with the same people. They liked Mesure for Brennan but they really liked Harrington & so tucked him away, or put a pin in him, until they could figure a part they wanted to use him in. I realize that doesn't answer your question but it is generally more information. 

Thanks. It doesn't answer my question, but it does in a way. I was wondering if they shoehorned in John Cates into other material that was already completed. It would also explain why he might have just meandered around if they were trying to lock the actor down in a role in a story they knew would be coming up. 

11 minutes ago, Vee said:

According to Errol and others, yes. My understanding is the original C&D pitch for Jason's return involved more brainwashing, undead villains (not Valentin but possibly Jennifer Smith and somehow Susan Moore), possibly a resurrected Morgan, etc. Valentin dismissing the "Stone" clue the other day was their dispensing with some of that groundwork from the prior writers (Stone was Morgan's middle name).

Wagger's big speech about Sonny is on the first Tuesday or Wednesday of March, right after Steve's first airdate - which I think is the same day Dante gets shot. Mulcahey/Korte really started with Steve on 3/3(?), and maybe tweaked a bit the week or two before, but their official credited start was the 15th.

Ok. I noticed that O'Connor & Van Etten were basically credited for 64 or so (I'm sure there were premptions somewhere in there) episodes in 2023-2024 after the end of the strike, which is just short of 13 weeks. Do we think that they had to wait a certain period of time because of the strike to pull this writers switch? Also, in that case, who's idea was the return of Jagger since he seems pretty tied to Jason's current situation?

None of what you stated that was planned for Jason's return sounds anywhere near interesting. lol That said, the current situation seems very pro Jason / Carly, but maybe I am just not used to post-Riche (or even late stage Riche) GH to understand the dynamics between Carly and Jason. Not that I really care one way or another. Jason seems like a necessary evil, like Sonny.  

In general, I still struggle with what I am seeing. I don't get a sense of where anything is going, which seems neither good or bad yet. I am surprised, and not surprised, that some of the more compelling material I find myself tuning into are from characters who were pretty well despised in recent times. I think Cynthia Watros is playing some of the material brilliantly. Everything Nina does in regards to Sonny seems like she fears for her life, which works for me because Nina seems to think Sonny is her life. Her attempts to worm her way back into her own marriage fascinate me because it's clearly a fool's errand. Drew as her foil has been a real delight and I am truly interested to see what might happen with these two combustible messes. Maybe I am just finding the potential of it all wickedly appealing. Ava's manipulation of Sonny as well as playing Nina for a fool is also delightful. I cannot wait to see Nina learn that Ava has gotten herself so deep into Sonny's world. 

I will say, I wish the show had better script writers. I don't think the current scripts are terrible, but I find so much of my interest comes from the ideas in scenes rather than the words between the characters, if that makes any sense. Occasionally a line or two will stand out, but I want more. 

22 hours ago, Vee said:

Assuming you mean 3/15, what I will say is if you can find it there's definitely stuff in the first week of March and the last of February that is very redolent of the changes we're still seeing now - particularly Scout's birthday party at the Qs where they brought unlikely family connections together (Alexis/Drew, Sam/Willow, Aunt Willow running herd on Danny and Jake's growing issues, etc.) and the incredible scene Wagger/Jagger/John had on the first Tuesday of March excoriating Sonny and his PCPD apologists at the warehouse hit. They've been putting their stamp on stuff for over a month, but yes, the official tenure started less than a month ago.

I think the first episode I watched was March 11th. I am not arguing the rewrites as I was aware that things were being tweaked. I am curious though how much was rewritten. So much of what I watched in those first four days was basically either Jason on the run / Dante in a coma which basically were both tied to the Jason story. Little else was going on. So are we to assume anything related to Jason's return was Korte and Mulcahey? Was O'Connor and Van Etten's plan for Jason different or was the general outline supposedly kept?

8 hours ago, Vee said:

A fair amount of stuff before the new team's official start date (3/15, IIRC) was clearly tweaked/ghostwritten - we were explicitly told by Errol that they had allegedly been brought on to start unofficially reworking stuff in the Jason story at the start of March with Steve Burton's first airdate, but there's also some eps in late February that bear PM/EK's mark IMO. More family connectivity and character work that's similar to what we have now. The Jake/Danny, etc. famly focus with Sam and so on also started in late February. Point being, those T.J. scenes you mentioned also hit different to me.

I do think they also made a point to highlight and re-center the BLQ/Tracy relationship in those early March days, which I appreciated. There was a quick shift to Brook respecting Tracy's skill and experience.

I started the week of Mulcahey/Korte so I only saw about four episodes with the previous writers. I felt there was such a shift in the writing on that Friday. A lot of those family scenes seemed very paper thin. I wasn't sure if it was the writing or the unfamiliarity of the actors playing material that was emotional. On Friday, everything sounded more rounded and  deeper. There were some stand out scenes, but I just assumed that Korte was probably doctoring the material because she was already on the staff. The way Laura treated Heather on the Wednesday episode and the Friday episode was vastly different that's why I wasn't sure if this was something they would pursue or not. 

I think the Quartermaine family is one of the areas of the show that needs work. I am glad they are starting with Tracy and Brook Lynn, but I would like to see a little more put into trying to make them a cohesive family again. 

Maybe I read too much into a scene pre-Mulcahey/Korte, but I felt when T.J. was telling Jordan that Dante's shooting brought home the fact that his child was growing up with family members with mob connections was the real issue going forward in the surrogacy story. Kristina has been defending her father pretty consistently and there seems to be some major mob action brewing with the attempts to take down Pikeman. I can easily see T.J. wanting to limit Kristina's involvement with the child after birth to keep the child safe from that world with Molly torn between her sister who selflessly gave her a gift but also who embraces a man who is surrounded by danger. 

A parent against a relationship is a trope that daytime has done for decades, and has ignored more in the past decade so I don't really mind Natalia being against Blaze/Kristina mostly because it isn't just the religious viewpoint, it's her fear that Blaze's sexuality is a reaction to trauma. From my experience, sexual trauma can lead to issues with one's sexuality, obviously not all the time. I do wish there was more a complicated view of this because Natalia seems to WANT this to be the case rather than knowing it, but it still fascinates me. I find Natalia's Kris Jenner act more dated than anything else. 

On further reflection, I am wondering if Kristina's reaction to Deception was suppose to show that Kristina is similar to Natalia in trying to control Blaze's life.

I also appreciate all the civic talk between Laura putting the city on GH's HMO and Jordan speaking with Drew about using Crimson (or was it one of his other companies) to present a different image of Port Charles. I never was a huge Cameron Mathison fan, but he seems to be one of the actors who has really benefitted from the writing changes in the last few weeks. He seems to work well as the sarcastic businesssman. That is a type that I feel was very popular on the show in the early 1990s. 

I thought the stuff surrounding Tracy's birthday was nice, but I wish we got to actually see them celebrate. I did think taking the moment to suggest Tracy might have depression was a smart move. I didn't consider that she might still be grieving for Luke, which unveils a new layer to some of her hesitancy involving herself with Gregory, who would force her to deal with that type of grief again in the near future. 

The Deception stuff doesn't bother me, but I do wish it was a little more deep. I would rather see Brooklyn befriend Lucy in an attempt to win her over and push her out of the company with grandma Tracy's support only for Brooklyn to actually start to become friendly with Lucy and her loyalty torn. The way it plays out presently just seems very standard so I am willing to give it a little more time. 

It was nice to see Dante's homecoming. I am surprised how much I like that blended family.

7 hours ago, Bright Eyes said:

About Jason and his potential romances, taking only this past month into account, Steve Burton easily had the most chemistry with Rebecca Herbst. I'm not a couple person and am not at all advocating them to reunite, just calling it like I see it, so far.

Portia was the best part of today. She wasn't taking any of these whack white people's crap and she made it known. Brook Kerr really is great in the role. That excited/concerned gasp she let out when Curtis first walked in front of her ... just such strong choices. She made me care. She brings a lot of heart to the role.

The Heather stuff is solid material for me. When she told Kevin what she dreamed of doing if she was a free woman almost made me tear up.

Sofia Mattson truly does give off horse girl vibes in every way. Still, I think Sasha is the character I'd miss the least if she left, but the show is engaging enough for me that I'm willing to let things simmer and stir without sharpening my axe just yet.

And Tracy being a full rounded character in 2024 is a wonderful thing to behold.

I definitely think that the show is going for Jason/Carly though I feel a significant amount of energy is put back into the Jason/Sonny dynamic, which I have less interest in, but appreciate the layers that are being addressed. I hope that when they reveal that Sonny's meds have been tampered with that someone convinces Sonny that it is somehow tied to Spinelli's tampering with the pharmacy records and Sonny assumes that Jason/Michael/Carly were behind the situation to drag out the reunion of GH's most unnecessary supercouples, Sonny and Jason. 

I appreciate that the show is allowing drama to unfold from characters having different stances. It is present in the Jason story, but the emphasis today with Portia was excellent. It would be easy to make Portia's point of view based solely on her relationship with her daughter, but by exploring her role as one of Heather's physicians is helpful. I imagined that the next steps in this story would be a quick release for Heather followed by a custody battle of sorts for Ace, with Laura and Kevin taking different stances on what role Heather should play in Ace's life. I hope there is more attempts to keep Heather from being released before she is. 

4 hours ago, Taoboi said:

That said...I felt they built onto her personality at the start of the Blaze/Kristina storyline. And it wasn't because she was both Latinx or LGBTQI+. She was just...a singer. I didn't get a token vibe from her pre-writing change.

That said...it has occurred to me that usually...in recent years...when another culture does appear that usually the black characters on shows do get sidelined. And I definitely don't want another case of the Rosales from Y&R because I feel there can be potential for all characters regardless of race...but I can't help but wonder has the uptick in Blaze/Blaze's mom persence come at the expense of the black characters on GH. I still think it is too soon to tell for me, though. 

But you give me something to think about with Blaze's scenes now to consider.

In my limited viewing, I think Blaze is a character who isn't in control of her life. Her momager's constant need to micromanage Blaze's career and every aspect of her life combined with Blaze's own insecurities seem to have fueled a very unhealthy dynamic between mother and daughter. I thought Natalia steamrolling her way into the Deception meeting and rewriting the contract seemed to seal for me that Blaze will need to escape her mother's grasp to be her own person. 

What was more disappointing to me was the structure of today's Blaze/Kristina scenes I thought the meeting between Blaze and Kristina at Crimson was well played with Kristina learning Blaze was the "Face of Deception" just as Blaze quietly failed to acknowledge that Kristina is his girlfriend. Kristina's catty line about Blaze truly being the face of Deception worked for me. So I was disappointed that the focus of today's episode was on Blaze's concealment of the Deception position rather than the lying about their relationship. The scene did eventually make it there, but I felt that the failure to acknowledge the relationship was the bigger issue. With that said, it does seem the writers' are invested in Natalia as the catalyst for drama. As days go by, I hope we get more about how Blaze's insecurity fuel her feelings about being in a relationship with a woman. 

My prediction regarding Natalia's stance on keeping Kristina and Blaze's relationship out of the spotlight will be Kristina's surrogacy to suppress her true reason for keeping Blaze's private life private; she doesn't accept Blaze's romantic interest in a woman.

2 hours ago, Khan said:

It's always incredible to me how he can dig into characters and find some truths in them that make them relatable.  Characters aren't just spouting exposition; they're actually revealing something about themselves, which is how good storytelling should be.

I think this is what I've enjoyed the most in the past few weeks of watching. I don't think what I am watching is compelling must see tv, but I think the sweeping changes to the show's writing structure (longer, meaningful scenes) has helped to allow that introspection into the characters. It also makes the shorter choppy scenes stand out. 

I think what I really liked about the Stella / Tracy scene, other than the continuation of a dynamic set with the confrontation a few weeks back, was that it really emphasized the internal journey Tracy is on navigating her role as the lead of the Quartermaine clan. She is not her mother's daughter, and that seems bring her some pain. All the pride she has had in being a daddy's girl is not really paying off. It's interesting watching Tracy trying to figure out how she is going to balance the different aspects of her personality. 

And I say this as someone who hasn't been to happy with some of Tracy's material in the short time I've been watching. 

On 4/1/2024 at 6:12 AM, Sapounopera said:

I really cannot see Dorothy Lyman as Rebecca. Such a weird casting choice.

Rebecca should have been the mother of (a younger) Laura, JD, Sam, Monique and Corey. The McCallums made things more complicated for no reason. 

I liked the original Y&R (CBS) style better than the NBC style that followed. However the show needed stronger storylines and scenes from the beginning. A co-headwriter, perhaps someone like Pat Falken-Smith?

A trendier intro might have helped.

With more time, maybe I would have adjusted to her, but I agree that Dorothy Lyman doesn't work as Rebecca. Her Rebecca has little warmth. I think Pat Crowley managed to provide a level of heart to Rebecca that Lyman wasn't able to in her short run. I do think that Lyman's Rebecca would have been the stronger litigator, but I don't think that is really the direction the show was heading in. 

The McCallums fall apart easily because crucial pieces of their story were eliminated in the development stage. Trevor's mid-life crisis was being driven by a rivalry with a colleague at work, who would be Sam's love interest. Trevor's icy mother, Frances McCallum, was suppose to appear as a recurring character and start slowly showing more and more signs of Alzheimer's disease. Cory was suppose to be develop a one-sided infatuation with Jessica Gardner. Laura was intended to fall into an affair with an old classmate, plastic surgeon Greg Sutton, who Ruth Marshall would have been infatuated with back in the day.  Given the scope of the bible, I suspect Sussman may have initially developed the show as an hour long project. 

Due to the conservative nature of NBC, a lot of the more interesting elements are nixed leaving Sussman to figure out on-air how to restructure the show. As a result, this becomes her modus operandi; finding the show through the course of writing it. I think the general direction the show seemed to be heading in by mid-1989 (an affair between Trevor and Jessica, whether emotional or physical) was a smart way to center the family. I would have kept with the one-sided Cory/Jessica angle only for Cory to be upset about his father's relationship with Jessica from a personal angle. Laura needed more centering though because her character had substantial ties to the canvas. It might have been interesting had a nearly empty nester Laura decided she wanted to pursue a career and found herself developing her own sense of independence through something like real estate. I think the McCallum crew could have worked, but I don't blame the show for basically scrapping them. Monique wasn't strong enough alone to carry that branch of the family. 

I found the tone of the early episodes appealing, but I thought the stronger storytelling and the cast integration once Jorn Winter arrives in September, 1989, was when the show took off. The large cast of supporting characters was neat and very Y&R and I appreciated the depth of the world that was created in the beginning, but it needed to build up to that, especially in the half-hour form. I also think some of the cast isolation, which worked well on Y&R, wasn't effective on "Generations." Characters in the same circles should interact when possible. The nationalization of Marshall's Ice Cream should have been an umbrella that saw most of the cast interacting professionally and personally as a result of the professional connections. I will say strong scenes in that period really stood out though. Especially anything with Ruth Marshall. 

@Sapounopera What did you think of the character voiceovers in the early episodes? I didn't really like that device being used as often as it was.

I thought the opening was reflective of the show's concept of generations, which is also why you needed the McCallum branch. The show had two families that were made up of three generations. 

13 hours ago, Jdee43 said:

Watching the Lucy and Felicia scenes of the mid 90s, has anyone ever noticed their lesbian undertone, that Lucy was always subtly flirting with and having her hands on Felicia? It was never in the dialogue, but all in the energy; more in how the actors would play their scenes together. I always felt like the actors were just having fun with it, adding a subtle level to their interactions for whoever saw and noticed.

I haven't noticed anything personally with Lucy and Felicia, but there are definitely lesbian undertones in several of Lucy's other relationships. There is a scene during Lucy's marriage to Alan where she goes toe to toe with Tracy in an argument that ends with Tracy kissing her on the cheek which I thought was an interesting choice. Also, when Lucy is pregnant with Serena, Lucy and Dominque get some stares at GH when they mention they are having a baby together.

I think Lucy having a sexual undertone to any relationship makes sense. She was typically around men either through romantic or platonic relationships. Her bringing that same energy to a platonic female relationship makes sense. 

8 hours ago, carolineg said:

IIRC, they started moving Mac and Felicia together during the Ryan story.  She was still married to Frisco for awhile when she came back.  Although I appreciate JJY as Mac I do think he got quite lucky with the Felicia pairing.  Mac would have been truly gone ages ago without it.  He pretty much floundered in every other pairing he had, but most were pretty ill conceived and not entirely his fault.

I think Monty chemistry tested Mac and Felicia during the brief period when Jack Wagner left and before Kristina also jumped ship (June-November). This was picked up pretty much immediately in June, 1992, but I do think they were probably testing out other areas.

Mac and Felicia were definitely gold in 1992-1993. I think Mac and Shell Danielson's Dominque were good but burned through story super fast. I don't think Dominque and Mac had the potential for longevity at the end of the day. I've only seen a little of Mac and Katherine and it didn't really inspire me. 

7 hours ago, carolineg said:

That I don't know.  It feels like such an odd pairing to me, but so does Felicia and Luke and that happened.  Didn't Scott have quite a bit going on at the time?  It's so hard to say with all the behind the scenes upheaval.  And the show couldn't figure out what to do with Holly let alone Mac.  I have a feeling Mac might have always been in mind for Felicia, but as a temporary pairing.  I do think the show always wanted Jack Wagner back permanently although I don't know the timeline between this and his gig on Melrose Place exactly.

When Felicia gets back in May, 1992, Scott is basically lawyering and setting up Deception. I don't think they really get into Scott and Dominique until July or later when they have the Los Angeles adventure. In May/June, Scott would be defending Monica Quartermaine and the staff of GH in the lawsuit brought on by Nikki Langton over the death of her father, David. They also briefly tested Scott with Jessica Holmes, who initially worked with Nikki during the law suit and then later became D.A. I think Nikki's suit was civil, but I may be wrong. 

6 hours ago, carolineg said:

I don't think the wrong choice was made regarding Lucy/Kevin at all.  I do remember Felicia and Kevin having a vibe, but the timing was probably way too off given Felicia was pregnant/just had a baby and the Ryan situation.  I can't recall if Felicia/Tom was a Labine creation or mostly Guza, but the idea sounded decent on paper and I don't think MA/KW were without chemistry.  The relationship just played out so oddly sexual and cringe-y.  It was still playing out in 1997, so a few writers had a hand in it I suppose.  

Felicia returns in March, 1995, and has the baby at Outback. I want to say Tom comes back around April/May, 1995. I think I only made it to early June, 1995, in my viewing but they were already doing Tom and Felicia and it didn't really work for me. It felt like they were trying to pair Ashford with someone who looked like and had energy similar to Melissa Reeves, but the characters didn't work. 

And someone asked about Tom being a psychiatrist. He was one when David Wallace was in the part as well. I don't know if he was when he first came on, but by 1990, he is a psychiatrist. 

The episode that was just posted was most likely May 8. That was when "Top Gun" aired on NBC in May, 1989. Also, given the "this week" preview, it would have to be a Monday episode and May 8th is a Monday. 

I'm reading the next two chapters of the Bible which are lengthy. They cover J.D./Jessica/Lisa and Trevor/Laura/Greg. As I believe I've said, the format of this bible has character biography and then plot. In the character biography, there are not a whole lot of shocking details from the characters that we see (Laura/Trevor/Jessica/J.D.), but there is an oddly detailed description of how J.D. manages getting drafted into the Vietnam War by faking a manic depressive state with the help of a psychiatrist. The most interesting thing is what isn't said, the father of Jason Craig. Jessica vows to go to her grave before revealing who that is, but I have hopes (minor) that it might be unveiled later in the bible.

Laura and Trevor only have two children in the bible, but an additional son (Dylan) was mentioned in newspaper press releases and Laura once refers to her "sons" before Cory arrives on the scene. Cory's story is revealed in the bible to be pretty C-level; the pursuit of losing his virginity to his girlfriend Melissa and then later Jessica, both unsuccessful. The letter writing campaign for Jessica is also in the document as are references to Bill Bell's alter ego, Ben Berry, the brilliant mind behind "Tomorrow is Another Day." Trevor's mother Frances McCallum has the early stages of Alzheimer's, which will get overlooked because she is such a cold bitch. 

Laura and Trevor's marriage was arranged by Peter, who wanted Laura to marry well and not have to worry. The marriage is described as more functional than loving, which I think what came across onscreen. Trevor seems to be heading towards a mid life crisis affair with Alison Engel, the creative director at the ad agency, as they plot to usurp some of the accolades at the firm from Trevor's much younger rival, Rob Raelko (who I believe eventually morphed into Rob Donnelly). Alison seems to be the predecessor for Amy Yasbeck's character, Carla. The main account they are going after is the nationalization of Marshall's ice cream, which should be a big deal on the canvas. Trevor seems pretty vain and with mentions of high blood pressure and stress I imagine a heart attack. 

Laura ends up having an affair with Greg Sutton, who she went to school with. Greg was working class so he never had a shot with snobby Laura, but Laura did have strong sexual desires for him back in the day that she let stay on the back burner. Instead, Greg received attention from Ruth Marshall, already married with a kid. They bonded over Greg's poetry. Greg returns to work on a facial reconstruction as he is now a plastic surgeon. He stays because he runs into Laura at a benefit and eventually, after an argument between Laura and Ruth, Laura has sex with him. The Ruth/Greg/Laura dynamic is intriguing. It is stated implicitly that Laura was against Ruth/Greg because of the interracial dynamic and that Laura was aghast that Ruth would have such a dalliance in her home. Laura's racism is very present in the descriptions of her feelings about Ruth having loved Greg, even though they had done nothing. Laura is much more fascinating in the bible than anything onscreen. I have a bit more to read, but she probably suffers the most in the revisions from the page to the screen so far. Though, I'll be curious to see how the Adam as a model story was suppose to play out. 

J.D.'s story delved much more into his pursuit of reviving his career and romancing Jessica in order to secure the money to do it himself, which is basically the shell of the story that happened onscreen. The difference is he originally had a second love interest, Lisa Morgan, who is the person that Sussman states the audience would be rooting for. J.D. and Lisa would meet in New York during one of J.D.'s gigs when Lisa would be waiting tables at some club J.D. performed at. Lisa would eventually be fired and take up J.D.'s offer to look him up if she were ever in Chicago. So Lisa decides to move to Chicago (only on soap) and ends up living platonically with J.D. while trying to put off any romantic overtures from J.D. There are lots of references to Lisa's secret, but it all comes out during a teacher conference that Lisa (who has got back into teaching with J.D.'s encouragement) attends where she runs into Patricia Morris. Patricia and Lisa both have a flashback of Patricia hearing her college sweetheart Larry Morgan breaking off their engagement because "I am not the man you think I am." 

J.D.'s pursuit of a new music deal fails miserably when he realizes that Jessica is broke (she has been left nothing in her father's will but her mother's possessions). In his moment of self loathing, he connects with Lisa and he sleeps with her before she has told him about her past though he is aware that there is some reason that has kept her from sleeping with him (he already suggested lesbianism, incest, or other sexual abuse). 

I haven't completed this section (it's nearly 100 pages), but it is a shame because most of it cannot be used. Jessica had multiple marriages, which wasn't the case on the show. Timothy Craig was an entrepeneur in the bible who adopted Jason after he married Jessica. She was briefly married to a young actor who beat her. Then, she was engaged to marry Jim Weaver, a congressman. On-air, Jim and Timothy became the same character though they were briefly mentioned on-air as separate characters. In this version, Jim Weaver had been involved with foreign agents and the accident that killed him and hurt Jason most likely was the result of the international espionage. 

I'll add more when I get through this section

On 3/25/2024 at 8:39 PM, Vee said:

It's pretty wild to see the mammoth investment put into the Eckerts in '91 - sweeping (and swooning) overhead shots of their big new bakery set followed by an extended tour of their entire family house, also all-new. Monty was really banking on Tony's star power putting this all over.

As I've said before, on paper I admire the ambition: If it is true that Monty hoped to emulate the UK soaps/Eastenders by introducing a working-class ethnic family en masse that's something I can get behind theoretically in the right circumstances, and I've also always wanted a modern American soap to experiment with the UK model of bringing on a whole family unit at once. (It historically never works here when rarely done, but times have changed and you might as well try it with the right characters, such as for example Liz's doctor sister Sarah and family on GH.) I also said already that I'm impressed with the scope of the S.S. Tracy event, its immediate ramifications for the larger canvas and how it introduces Mac, the Eckerts, etc. all in one fell swoop - Robert, Anna, Ruby, Bobbie, Tracy, etc. carry a lot of that stuff in the earlier eps with the disaster itself. But while JJY is immediately winning as Mac, the Eckert characters are not just compelling enough to make all this work and the post-sinking February episodes in particular have the regular GH vets seeming like guest stars in a show entirely about the Eckerts lol.

It does amuse me seeing jolly Frank(?) Eckert with his loving wife and remembering Tony's later interview (one of many retcon backstory interviews he gave for Bill) declaring that Bill's father beat their mother for years. Okay?

Finian O'Toole is funny but Mac is real quick to eat lunch out of an empty morgue drawer. Couldn't be me. How did this dude turn out to be part of the cartel or whatever?

I'm in early December, 1990, so I am a few weeks away from the massive overhaul. These types of overhauls typically don't work because it is too easy for viewers to tune out during the rebuilding stages. In their original form, the Eckerts aren't incredibly interesting, but they are, more importantly, so disconnected from the established canvas. So many scenes are like from a brand new show. I did like the condensed and repackage Eckerts by early 1992, but that is quite a road to get there.

I appreciated the reference to Eckert's a few weeks back when Kristina offered to take Danny there on the way home from the hospital. 

Finian goes on his own journey where he ends up murdering Nancy Eckert,going to to jail, and then ending up as caretaker for Sly (though maybe he was the nanny before going to jail, I don't recall). Finian is pretty typical of that era. There are also whole slew of patients at the community center Mac has to do his court appointed community service at that get quite a bit of air time for a few episodes. More kooky comic relief.

On 3/26/2024 at 9:00 PM, Vee said:

@dc11786 the Jagger/Karen/Jason triangle got heavily referenced on today's GH, FYI.

I've sat through the last few weeks because of Mulcahey's return. I don't have a lot to say about that particular aspect. It did answer my question whether or not Jason knew about that part of his life. Harrington doesn't bother me as a recast, but it does make me realize that Sabato, Jr., has a special quality about him even if he wasn't always the strongest actor. 

20 hours ago, Vee said:

 

On another 1992 note no one asked for: Has anyone else seen the early Felicia return material in June of '92 and gotten the distinct impression they were heavily testing Scott and Felicia? They have a number of cute banter scenes with him looking after Maxie (who they keep calling "Max") and have pretty solid chemistry, and their vaguely improvisational energy works well together. But honestly Kristina really returned gangbusters overall from what I can see, and more than proved herself solo here IMO - she dominates a bunch of scenes with Felicia sweeping across the canvas doing what seems like odd jobs, with hilarious stuff with her working at the PCPD with crooks at the line-up, etc. I've always respected how strong and funny KW was as a slice of life player in the Labine era with JJY, Kimberly, Jon Lindstrom, etc. but she really has even more of a vivacious spark than I remembered. I don't know if this is when her real IRL troubles with Jack Wagner started but it seems like she came back eager to prove herself without him and Frisco as a solo heroine, and for a good stretch of years I think she succeeded. It's nice to be able to admire that again after the Luke/Felicia years brought her so low. Kristina is a lot rustier and less spontaneous a comedienne these days than she was back in the '90s, but she's still got a lot of emotion and heart onscreen when it counts and I'm glad she's still here. I do wonder when they started the move towards Mac and Felicia.

Scott doesn't have a lot to do in early 1992 romantically so I am not surprised if they teased Scott/Felicia. I've seen some of those episodes, but considering how clear it was to me that Felicia/Mac were going to be a thing, I may not have picked up on it. 

It'd funny. What stood out to me in the 1990 episodes I am watching is how much of a supporting character Felicia is in this era without any agency and limited ties. At Max's christening, which is quite an event, only Mariah is there to represent Felicia. All her ties are through Frisco. Wagner must have been more comfortable than Edie Lehman at playing the second fiddle. In contrast, as you stated @Vee, Wagner is such a presence in the early Riche. Her second bout of amnesia opens the character up to be pretty carefree and whimsical. From there, Kristina Wagner just seems to make anything they throw at her gel. In terms of looks, and occasionally energy, I get a real Michelle Pfeiffer vibe from her in 1992-1993 episodes I have seen. I'm a little disappointed she hasn't appeared in anything I've seen in 2024 yet.

I'm not sure when 'Maxie' became her name, but she is Max at the time of her birth. It is actually Tiffany who calls her Maxie in one-off line of dialogue, but she is always known as Max in 1990. 

7 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Like other shows of that time going through constant headwrier changes (SFT,AW,GL) the new teams were too hasty in dropping characters for newbies instead of looking at what was there and how placing a character in a new story could work out well.

Often the new characters were basically replicas of the old and those characters could have easily been worked into the new storyline and provide viewers with more continuity.

The writers didn't change. Millee Taggert and Tom King were the writers from 1988-1991. The issue might have been producers though. I think Joseph Hardy left in late 1989 to head over to "General Hospital." He might have dumped Ron Nummi, and Mary Ellen Bunim might have hired Fitzgerald. Of course, I believe it was then Jackie Babbin who arrived and quickly fired Fitzgerald. 

I don't think resting the character of Rick was a terrible idea though I never can remember at what point in the story James Horan arrives as Clay. Clay was just meeting Rick so there was story to explore there especially given Clay's own outsider status, while I could also see Rick potentially feeling closer to Alex.

Ron Nummi should have been Curtis Alden. After Curtis had been softened, Rick basically became Curtis anyway. I think Nummi had nice chemistry with Colleen Dion as Cece, but that boat had sailed for a number of reasons. 

5 minutes ago, Khan said:

LOVING really was a throw-anything-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks kind of show, wasn't it?

It doesn't even make sense!  Jack and Stacey as Corinth's answer to Jonathan and Jennifer Hart?  In what universe?

In the late 1980s, "Loving" was definitely throwing what it could wherever and seeing what landed. 

To be fair though, Jack and Stacey were characters who's layers had been stripped so the parts that made them interesting were no longer there to keep them creating natural conflict on their own. Jack was raised by the Aldens, but was the natural son of their enemy, Dane. Dane was really needed to drive conflict or at least Jack's divided sense of loyalty between the two worlds he existed in. Stacey ended up marrying her best friend's man, and then carried on an affair with him while he was married to Ava. Stacey wasn't 100% a good Irish Catholic girl like her parents had raised her. Stacey, too, should have been divided between her two worlds: her big loving family and the cutthroat tactics her husband would have to engage in at Alden Enterprises. Stacey also needed a career that suited her nature. I think Shana should have encouraged Stacey to pursue law or journalism rather than being a romance novelist.  

Also, the setup of Curtis, Stacey, Jack, and Ava could have, and should have, played out for years. 

4 minutes ago, Vee said:

I think late-stage Bill is very intriguing, as are his many metamorphoses and all the various backstories and subtext Tony has spun up in his many period interviews about him, etc. I just don't think it makes for a good long-term character to continue with indefinitely, especially at that point two years in. I watched the November sweeps eps of '92 where Bill and Holly first proudly declare in bed that they will each get tested for HIV before doing the deed (in a series of cringeworthy educational scenes) and then their big consummation scenes featuring test result presentations(!!), rooftop rendezvouses, purple florid speeches by Geary at his most camp and a long, long section of slo-mo dancing and some sort of sub-Bryan Adams song, and wow it's all howlers. You can buy two teens like Jason and Robin doing that ritual with the tests onscreen to educate kids watching, but not these grown-ass adults. Anyway, by fall '93 no, I don't think there is a way to make Bill work on contract.

I'll agree that Bill's viability as a romantic lead was limited to non-existent. Bill wasn't the kind of man that I think the audience was swooning over, nor would I want them to. To me, I think Bill could have remained a cog in the canvas as Ned's business rival, Jenny's brother, Paul's business partner, Sly's dead beat dad, and Julia's ex. If Scotty had stayed, I could see a situation with Scotty turning to Laura for help with the impending birth of his child, with Scotty also continuing to bond with Sly. The Sly-Scotty bond would put Laura and Bill in the same orbit. And then Laura and Scotty's friendship would have upset the Scotty-Lucy dynamic which would have led Lucy to play double agent in business for Bill if he would agree to help her keep Laura and Scott apart, with Bill agreeing mostly as a f*ck you to Scott for his bond with Sly. And a Scott-Bill business rivalry would play out with Julia stuck in the middle. But at the end of the day, Kin Shriner was probably gonna leave no matter what and so much of that section of the canvas ended up cleared away to make room for characters who ended up making more of an impact in the long run. 

I don't have much use for Holly and Bill. They feel very functional, but not necessarily generating excitement. They feel like a C-couple in an A-story. I feel for Emma Samms. She was clearly a pawn in Gloria Monty's late stage power plays and with Tristan Rogers gone there was little for her to play. Bill and Holly feel like a couple out of necessity. I don't like the Richard Halifax stuff. I've seen little of Simon Romero but he just feels like a pre-cursor to Halifax. I like Samms with Mac and Robin at the start of her run, but otherwise it seems to be mostly filler. 

Those safe sex scenes sound absurd. "Loving" did something similar with Angie and Charles about a year or so later without the over the top quality. Those "Loving" scenes felt, like what you described, as an attempt to give something to a couple who had little to do. 

3 hours ago, DeliaIrisFan said:

Would ABC have had any interest in Laura and Lucky without Luke, though?  GH spent so many years trying to make Bill Eckert work.  Even if the network had equal respect for Geary and Francis, which is questionable, wouldn't they have assumed that trading one for the other would have been a wash?  Or would Bill have stayed in a separate story?

As for the writing change, I get the rationale for pairing Labine and Riche, but my question is why wait until Luke and Laura were coming back?  Riche was at GH for almost two years without Labine, who had not worked in daytime since RH went off the air, during which time GH went through a revolving door of writing teams (as you've been discussing).  I could have seen ABC hiring Labine and Riche at the same time.  And I think I've posted before that what Gloria Monty had tried to do with the Eckerts earlier in the decade was on paper something Labine would have excelled at - I just can't imagine they would have gotten along at all.  At both those points, GH was making a public show of turning the page from the '80s action adventure era, and hiring the co-creator of RH would have been consistent with that. 

Whereas L&L's return signaled an attempt to return to that formula, at least in part.  If anything, I'm surprised ABC wasn't trying to get one of the '80s writers back (one who wasn't Monty's sister, after how that turned out).  And if ABC/Riche had been pursuing Labine previously and it took a while to come to terms, I would think Luke and Laura's return might have scared her off for good, based on how her previous working relationship with ABC went south after L&L took off.

Believe me, I'm not complaining about what we got at all.  I just wonder if there's more to the story of how it happened.

I don't think ABC would have wanted Laura and Lucky without Luke, but I think I might have lol. I think without Luke there would be no Sonny longterm, which would completely change the show's trajectory long-term. Do I think that would have been a good thing? Who knows?

I know @Vee has gone through what a hot mess Bill Eckert is in all his different incarnations, but I think there is something intriguing about late stage Bill Eckert, ambitious businessman, worthless father, and a perennial womanizer. I think there is potential to see a widowed Laura Spencer have to deal with a doppleganger of her late husband who is nothing like him and yet everything like him at the same time. I feel like with Luke around the ensemble feeling is diminished. Not eradicated as he works within the canvas, but his large presence (and screentime) diminished other parts of the canvas. Others might feel differently though. 

I wonder what role ABC politics plays in the Labine & Luke+Laura decision. In 1993, Jo Ann Emmerich steps down in the summer or early fall to take over "Loving" and Pat Filli Kushel becomes the new head. In the early 1990s, I believe Labine was shopping a new daytime show so she may not have been interested or available. I also don't think ABC really committed to Riche right away. The soap columnists talk about Riche potentially being out as early as summer 1992. 

I hear what you are saying about the throwback nature, but I would counter that character returns, at least at that time, could bring a ratings bump. Returning behind the scene personnel didn't have the same effect. I think after Monty, the return to old GH writers was out of the question. Levinson and Thoma both had prior GH experience, I think. Levinson had worked under Agnes Nixon on "Loving" and Thoma had recently been nominated, or won, a writing award with the "Santa Barbara" team just prior to arrived at GH. 

I think Labine said that Luke and Laura were announced after she was hired in one of the interviews, but she may have been wrong. 

2 hours ago, Toups said:

@dc11786  I have the June 5, 1992 credits and O'Neill and Tobin are still listed and then I have June 30, 1992 with Thoma/Levinson credited, so that's why I have 1992-June 1992 for No Head Writers. 

Well, I stand corrected. I know the episodes on YouTube:

February 14, 1992: Norma Monty & Linda Grover 

March 4, 1992: Norma Monty.

March 20, 1992 There is no headwriter.

Then it would be March-June 1992: no headwriter

Thoma and Levinson are credited in September 1992 so Thoma makes it at least that far.

5 hours ago, Toups said:

Thanks!  So Grover was like co-HW for about a month?  Do you remember why?   And I'm assuming the months you put are for on air dates?  Which means GH went with no official HW from March to June 1992?  Looking at all the regime changes, early 90's GH was a mess.  LOL

Yes, I am referring to on-air dates. Grover is credited no later than January 7, 1992. She is gone by mid-February with Norma Monty gone a few weeks later in early March. 

I think ABC became desperate when "Young and the Restless" became number 1 and desperately wanted to make changes to get the show back into the top spot. The problem was they should have just worried about creating a solid show. 

Gene Palumbo writes the show from May 1989-March/April 1991. So there was some stability there with the show going from Wes Kenney to Joseph Hardy to Gloria Monty. Monty's run is the true mess that resulted in the collapse of the show's ratings. Monty's husband died at some point during her second run (I believe late June 1991) so that probably impacted some of the things happening on-screen. 

On-screen, 1991 is a hard year. There is just so much cast turnover between the big purge at the start of the year and the inability to figure out how to handle any of the newly established canvas before getting rid of the characters left, right, and sideways. By the tail end of the year, the show seems to be shaping up. By December, 1991, the show becomes watchable with the right characters onscreen, but it still needs work. Reestablishing the Quartermaines by bringing Edward back fromt he dead and aging Jason and AJ worked. Revisiting Dawn with David and Nikki Langton was also a smart move in my opinion, but that was early 1992. 

I like what I've seen in 1992. Riche stablizes the cast (for the most part) after the show bleeds cast members under Monty into the very early days of Riche. There are things I suspect don't work (Holly/Paloma, elements of the Cal/Joseph Adkins island adventure), but I find the show very watchable, but I know the ratings weren't great.

I am not clear why Grover was hired for only a month and a half. She is there for the transition from Gloria Monty to Wendy Riche. Riche I believe takes over the first week of February, 1992. Riche has never mentioned working with Grover so I wonder if she was fired by Monty. I liked a lot of what I saw in January, 1992. The problem was it wasn't building into anything, which Riche has complained about in more recent interviews about the show she inherited. There were lots of character work, but the big stories weren't being setup though a lot of the foundational work in this period was very good, in my opinion. 

I don't think the no headwriter period was as long as June, 1992, but I could be wrong. I thought there were late April, 1992 episodes online in recent years in which Maralyn Thoma (possibly solo) was already being credited as headwriter. Either way, I know one of the soap columnists at the time reported that ABC wasn't happy with Riche especially as she had been steering a good portion of the writing in 1992. 

I'm currently watching November 1990 so I should be into early 1991 soon and will check the credits to narrow things down, but often credits are missing. 

10 hours ago, Toups said:

Were Gene O'Neill & Noreen Tobin ever announced as HWs in 1992?  This is how the GH credits were, but there were no spaces.

 

Written by
Gene O'Neill &
Noreen Tobin
Maralyn Thoma
John Boni
Ralph Ellis
Frank V. Furino
Cynthia M. Jervey &
Elizabeth F. Snyder
Sheri Anderson
Tom Citrano
Eugene Hunt
Doris Silverton

-------------------------

So this is what I listed in my archive:

1991 - 1992
Norma Monty

1992 - June 1992
Gene O'Neill & Noreen Tobin (listed first but don't know if they were HWs or not)

June 1992 - 1993
Maralyn Thoma & Bill Levinson

1993 - October 8, 1993
Bill Levinson

So this is slightly off. This is still incomplete, but more reflective.

1989-1991

Gene Palumbo

1991

Gene Palumbo, Norma Monty & John Whepley

1991

Norma Monty & John Whepley

1991- January 1992

Norma Monty

January - February 1992

Norma Monty & Linda Grover

February-March 1992

Norma Monty

March 1992-1992

No Headwriter

5 hours ago, DeliaIrisFan said:

 a Labine GH without the mob would have been interesting to me as well, but I can't imagine any other plot device from Luke and Laura's past adventures that she would have had any desire to explore.  The mob (at least at the time) was a credible source of physical and moral conflict, but could exist in the same universe as realistic, character-driven stories.  Of course, why Claire Labine was selected to write GH during L&L's return given her style remains one of soaps' great unsolved mysteries for me, but I can't fault her for how she executed any of it.  Tony Geary may have hated Luke's 1993-94 story and/or given himself and his friend credit for the idea, but Luke and Laura's comeback was well-written, compelling, and true to everything Labine and Riche wanted to do with the show.  In fact, I give Labine even more credit for how seamlessly it all came off on screen, having read Geary's account.

As for Sonny, what he became under later regimes (and what the rest of the show eventually became to sustain him) was a travesty, but I don't blame Labine for any of that.  Other than Ryan, I've never even heard of any of those early '90s villains, but Sonny would have left a lasting impression for me even if he were never heard from again after he first left.  In hindsight, I can see how the Labines may have actually been laying the groundwork for Sonny's downfall (moving way up in the organization + losing the people who brought out the best in him) if their successors had been willing to go there, knowing MB's contract was up the next year and he'd probably want to try other things.  I loved Sonny at the time but I believe I could have accepted that, and I don't argue that a break from the mob would have made sense at that point.

I guess what I am really wondering if could the show have brought back just Laura and Lucky and still been effective. A domestic Luke would eventually have to be lured into a dangerous situation. 

I think Labine was hired because her style (heavy emotional stories) fit with the vision that Wendy Riche was trying to build on the show to the point that storylines that were not hers were contributed to Labine in 1993. I would also say the mob presence on "Ryan's Hope" with Joe Novak seems to be something that was valued or at least alligned with what the network wanted overall at GH and later at GL. 

1 hour ago, DeliaIrisFan said:

I totally think Brenda was exaggerating her importance—at the same time, making Sonny feel guilty and twisting the knife re: Karen—but now that you mention it, that dialogue does ring a bell.  So does the other stuff.  Now that you mention it, I wonder if they had actually been planning to pair Brenda and Sonny whether she would have emerged from the Jagger breakup as more of an outcast.  I assume the original plan was for Brenda to end up with one of the Quartermaine brothers, so she had to at least have Lila's seal of approval.  But instead, Sonny and Brenda could have bonded if more people blamed both of them.  I also wonder about how the cast cuts that were made to finance Luke and Laura's return, and if Brenda and Julia were both on the list. 

I definitely think that Brenda and the Quartermaine brothers was probably the plan in early 1993 during Bill Levinson's work. I think the minute AJ returns there are hints that the show might go that direction or at least make AJ Jason's protector and drag him into the story with Jason, Brenda, Jagger, and Karen though I also wonder at times if AJ's obsession with Jagger wasn't hints of Riche's proposed AJ is sexually ambiguous and contracts HIV. 

@carolineg mentions that Brenda was underdeveloped early on. I would agree, but I also think that may have been by design. Brenda is an obstacle to Jagger and Karen and very little more. She is a constant device for plot to move forward. In the list of teenage Brenda's "sins," she was also the one who leaked the cassette tape of Jenny Eckert Quartermaine talking with Senator Jack Kensington to Jenny's husband Ned. This was so her sister could get Ned for herself. Brenda also flirted with Ned. Also, there is no real drive on Brenda's part other than wanting Jagger. Karen had the medical school dream. Jagger wanted to reunite with his siblings. Brenda is just very thin on paper.

Brenda should have wanted Jason Q and went after Jagger with the intention of inciting jealousy in Karen in order to cause Karen and Jason to split. In turn, Brenda could then have played the victim and fallen onto Jason's shoulders. By the time this all played out, AJ would return and see Brenda for what she was another scheming vixen like Nikki. In attempting to save Jason from Brenda, Brenda and AJ would each be drawn to each other. I get the sense that Brenda's home life backstory, even then, was dysfunctional. I could see Brenda craving that return to a domestic bliss/chaos as it existed in the household. 

Levinson's writing is fascinating (not always in a good way) because there is such a seediness to some of the stories that is such a stark contrast to the rich, inner lives of the characters. I don't think they could prove it was Brenda, but everyone knew it was her. Similarly, when Brenda doctored Karen's essay so she ended up being accused of plagiarism, which cost her her scholarships, Brenda was never proven fully guilty. Again, everyone knew it was her. 

I haven't gotten to much of late 1993 in my viewing or much of 1994, but I think something that I appreciated about pre-Labine Riche era is that there is no huge mob/crime presence in the traditional sense. You have Dr. Ryan Chamberlain, who's story has a beginning, middle, and end. You have suave deranged businessmen like Simon Romero and Richard Halifax. No one stayed around longterm. I am not sure if Sonny and Luke really enhanced the canvas. I like watching Laura especially with Mary Mae, but the Sonny/Luke stuff in 1995 takes up such a huge part of the canvas that I would rather see devoted to others. I think the show needed some excitement, but I wonder what a mob free Labine "General Hospital" could have looked like.