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It's a large foundation that you would need to be willing to rest at different times. Soaps use to be good at that, but somewhere that got lost along the way. Instead of resting, the show would just do away with. The episodes surrounding Mike and Noreen's 1985 exit surfaced briefly a little while back. The characters are sent to Saudi Arabia. Mike's job was only supposed to last a year. The set up is for them to come back, but they just don't. 

Given Nixon's prior history, I am surprised she didn't just have Gwyn and Clay dead from the start like Chuck Tyler's parents on "All My Children." Then again, Roger's career means the character would have to relocate at some point if he were to get his dream. And the bible doesn't really suggest that Merrill and Roger were the show's endgame so I could see Merrill and Clay ending up together at some point to upset the social dynamics of the Vochek/Donovan and Alden clans. Like "Santa Barbara," it seems like there is only one character in each supporting family that the show cared about (Merrill / Mike) at the outset of the drama.

Also, the original plan of Patrick Donovan dying would have opened up story opportunities if it was played right. I'm still convinced the only reason Patrick Donovan was dead in the 1990s was because Nixon forgot that she hadn't killed him off originally. 

On 2/11/2024 at 8:51 PM, Paul Raven said:

It happened over and over on just about every show.

Rather than look back to the original concept and rebuild from there, each new team introduce new characters and families which then are mostly dropped by the next team and the shows become a disjointed patchwork representing various regimes.

The original foundation was interesting, but just never really utilized. Stacey and Shana were all that was really left of the Donovan/Vochek circle. I think that's a shame. Doug could have been brought back when the show was going the route of reestablishing the university. Richard Cox could have played Doug, even though I loved the original version of Giff. If it was Doug / Gwyn, then you could have also played Shana more in that orbit, and Susan Keith was floundering in that era so it would have been good to give her something to do. Of course, if Giff no longer exists, than Casey would probably need some reworking and I have an idea on two on where you could go there to maintain elements of the character. To maintain a connection to Mike, you could always make Casey either a secret child belonging to Merrill and Roger Forbes to give the kid ties to the Aldens or a secret child that Edy had by her first husband Jonathan so that you could still have Casey haunted by sins of the father. 

I think Mike could have returned in 1993 potentially to replace Alex's return. He could have played the investigation into the threat on the Aldens (who in my version would be Dane Hammond, not Dante, because I wouldn't have introduced Buck or Tess). Given the PTSD story, I probably would have revisited Mike's late Vietnam pal Gage and brought on Debbi Morgan as Gage's ex-girlfriend and Alimi Ballard could have been Gage's son. 

21 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

I love all of these ideas. I think that Stacey could only work as someone's wife, the normal couple people go to in order to discuss their problems. I could see her and Jack owning a coffee shop or a bistro and living a "quiet" life like Nick and Sharon on Y&R in the 90s-00s. 

Ain't that the truth. 

Under the right circumstances (writer/producer), I think Stacey could have easily been "Loving's" answer to Felicia. I think Kristina Wagner had a bit more natural charisma, but Lauren Marie Taylor could match her in the spunk department. 

3 hours ago, Kane said:

Aside from the initial story where she writes a romance novel and that gets used against her as she and Jack battle for custody of JJ, I felt like the show never really did as much as it could with the premise of Stacey being a writer. She could have written a Peyton Place-esque novel that exposed all the secrets of people in town, becoming a best selling novelist but alienating her friends and family in the process, for example. Or they could have actually followed through with having her teach a creative writing class at AU and gotten her involved in that scene, which is discussed at the end of 92/beginning of 93 but just ends up getting dropped.

The "Peyton Place" angle was also dropped. Stacey was hired by Tempo magazine in February, 1992, to write an article on the Alden family during the brief Tides mystery. I don't think the story would have been effective. I don't think Stacey would have really done that route. 

The college professor angle was clearly a plot dictated move to get Stacey into Jeremy's orbit for the breif Jeremy/Stacey pairing that wouldn't have worked. I think they could have done a story where Casey took a writing course and became linked to Stacey, which might have been too close a replay of Ceara/Matt/Ally. Especially once Trisha "died," Casey was anchorless and could have been involved with the Stacey / Buck / Heather / J.J. family unit stuff. 

I wish they had just revisited the Donovan family in full, which I think would have given Stacey natural drama. Rose Donovan suffering from dementia. Doug coming out late in life. Mike Donovan supporting Curtis Alden during his PTSD drama only for Mike to be a thorn in Curtis/Stacey's side. And the inevitable Patrick Donovan marrying Kate Rescott. 

The episodes of GL that I got on audio are from @Matt when he was still writing his online show "For Now and Forever." He held some sort of contest and I remember the day I got them in the mail. Nice memory to have unlocked. 

There's also a stretch of about forty or so episodes from "The Road of Life" from 1946 when the show shifted production to New York or Hollywood, I forget which. It is interesting because some of the voices I can clear tell are different, but some I don't do as well as picking up on. What is neat is Dr. Tom Parsons is featured. This is the grown up son of Helen Gowan and Reginald Parsons that had been the source of much conflict earlier in the sereis. He and Butch Brent are both interns in the story. 

There are definitely stretches of different shows in private collections that I haven't seen listed online. I am hopeful that the final years of "Road of Life" and "Right to Happiness" will appear someday as both seem rather strong in the dying days of radio drama. 

Raunch is credited as EP at "Santa Barbara" as of June 5, 1991, on the Santa Barbara Le Site Francais page. They have been fairly accurate and it matches up with the timeline I'm reading in the paper. 

Loon Lake seems to be in July, 1991. It's possible that the remote was filmed before Raunch left (circa May, 1991) or it was simply filmed in the between period where Raunch was out the door and Gottlieb was overseeing things from abroad. Best guess, even if he was involved, he probably wasn't credited. 

On 2/9/2024 at 8:12 PM, j swift said:

Reading the November 1990 recap.

I know talk shows were all the rage at the time, but wasn't Trisha Alden the least likely host, even for a local daytime show?  I could see Shana or Stacy because they would have broad appeal.  But, Trisha was always so stiff and uppity that it seems like a poor choice of profession for the character. 

It's always funny on soaps that when characters get a TV show, it is like a part-time gig. They can still investigate murders, go on trips, and have lavish romantic evenings, despite the fact that they have to go on air the next day.

Also, it seems like it was easier to write a soap before the technology of today.  Not only is everyone unavailable because they don't carry phones, but they had enduring evidence like cassette tapes and processed film photos.  Poor Gwen was caught on VHS, and they waved around that tape for a year.  It was easier to indicate a secret when they could use a prop.

Trisha's position comes from neopotism. She went into the media division of Alden Enterprises in 1988 shortly after her first husband Steve Sowolsky died. That's how she and Jeff Hartman met when Hartman was still a relatively gray character rather than and out and out psycho. She originally launches "Images" with Egypt Masters as the host, if I recall correctly. Is this the show that Trisha is hosting in 1990? 

In terms of structure, Agnes Nixon had originally pivoted the story around Merrill Vochek because she knew there was a strong desire for a desired demographic (young woman in their late teens and twenties) who were interested in careers in media. I suspect this may be why there was a shift in  Trisha's life trajectory once Steve was written off. 

Shana would have been unappealing as a host. She was a very bitter character, rightly so. Initially raised by her single mother, who later died. Often denied her birthright. Then, losing her husband and son in a plane crash. Shana hosting a consumer affairs show would have been appropriate, but I don't see her having the appeal needed to carry a lifestyle show. 

After really liking the idea of Stacey as a writer, I've wavered in recent years whether that was even an appropriate role for her. Soccer mom, car pool driving Stacey is quite effective and was a character type that was too quickly abandoned as the 1990s went on. I think Stacey's personality would have been appropriate, but I don't see Stacey enjoying that type of work. 

That film was around wayyyyy too long.

On 2/9/2024 at 10:37 PM, Kane said:

I'd like to add Paul to the list of unlikely hosts via his radio show, where he tells short, opaque stories about himself and Ava that are apparently all the rage with tweens and air live at random times through the day and night depending on what else Paul has going on that day.

I wish all of 1991 was available. I would like to see the scenes of Paul taking (searching) for the job at the radio station. I suspect this might have been some input from Matthew Labine, who was on Ryan Munisteri's staff. He was big on music, which was why it is was going to be central to the never developed "Heart and Soul." Anyway, I understood why Paul took the job and I thought it was brilliant; he wanted to be out of the spotlight because he was ashamed of his paralysis. That was much deeper than I expected. 

I LOVE the Weird City rants with Tough Guy and Beauty. Michael's interest in the station made sense; Charlie was in a jazz band. His little pal (the actress had previously played Dorrie on GL) made less sense, but I could see how people could be drawn to his brooding demeanor at that age. But the timing never makes sense and the overall "Lord of the Flies" crowd that supposedly flocked around and required a social worker (S. Epatha Merkerson) to appear seemed a bit much.  

On 2/9/2024 at 11:03 PM, te. said:

I swear, every time I see a promo or read a description of this show it just seems to be a different show each time.

In the 1990s, each writer / producer had a different vision and tone with people coming and going constantly. This promo was from a period where Millee Taggart and Robert Guza were headwriting which started off strong and then descended into madness before Nixon returned and pivoted the show again into another direciton. 

In a May 9th, 1991, newspaper, Linda Gottlieb's start date is listed as being July 15, 1991. It is said she will continue to work on her other projects. Paul Raunch had quit prior to this, but then by mid-May (May 18th), the papers are reporting that Raunch has already vacated the offices. Raunch leaves to assume EP position at "Santa Barbara."

This is most likely why there is no executive producer listed in the August 9, 1991 episode available on YouTube. So, it is likely that mid-June, 1991, until August, 1991, Gottlieb is tinkering with the onscreen material as there is no producer listed. On June 2, the newspapers have announced Gottlieb has hired Robyn Griggs to replace the original actress in the role of Stephanie Hobart.  Griggs claims in a paper from the time her (Griggs') first film date was May 15.  

Michael Malone is announced in the papers on July 28. A lot of the material covered is about a week or two out (lots of references to mid-July events). Another interview states that Malone started watching "One Life to Live" in spring 1991 (probably late spring). He also mentions he was behind the Daughters of Llanview plot so he was there no later than the week of September 13. 

When all this is being announced, the "Loving" turnover is also mentioned a bit. Mary Ryan Munisteri started the second week of August. This would probably be the same time period for Malone. I realize it doesn't pin it down as far as you would probably like. 

1 hour ago, All My Shadows said:

That was a nice, quick episode, and it really shows the strength of the 15-minute format. When those soaps were good, they had to be so easy to watch on a daily basis. Even working people could schedule a coffee break around one preferred show and never miss anything.

Remind me - why is Pauline's last name Harris and not Tyrell? Was she Grace's daughter from a previous marriage? I've always seen Grace listed online as "Grace Harris Tyrell," so I assumed that was her maiden name.

Pauline was married and divorced prior to the premier of the series. Her first husband was John Harris. Pauline and Ellen were sisters. As you probably know, Pauline was engaged to Peter before he broke it off and married her sister. My guess is there was some consideration of introducing John Harris down the line in the 1950s as an antagonist in Pauline's manipulation or maybe Pauline divorced John after Ellen died as so little of that first year seems documented. 

Watching this episode, it makes me wish that Pauline had been retained as a character even after Hailia Stoddard decided to focus on producing/directing. If she was still acting, Barbara Becker (who played a similar role on "Road of Life" might have been a good choice.)

The business intrigue seems like it would have played out well in the "Dynasty"/"Dallas" era. I believe NBC bought rights to "Love of Life" and "Secret Storm" in the early 1980s and I have always pondered what a "Secret Storm" airing on NBC in January, 1983, after the cancellation of "Texas"/"The Doctors" might have looked like.

I think "Santa Barbara" in the first episodes ooze potential that seems to get lost among the weeds of poor casting, backstage influences, and a series of rewrites. 

I'm rewatching the second week. My initial reaction was wow there is a lot of time spent on this younger set in scenes of just them that are quite awful. Though, pulling back some, other things come into view. Knowing now that the Dobsons were originally planning to have Warren Lockridge be the murderer, the whole dynamic in these early episodes shifts. In particular, the Jade / Warren scenario comes off as even more delicious.

Melissa (Brennan) Reeves is miscast as Jade, without a doubt. I think they should have straightened her hair and made her Laken. Jade fascinates me. The working class girl coming of age in a world of privileged and elite young men and women who are use to getting whatever they want. Jade, too, has learned to do that with her body. Yet, she isn't just a cut and paste vixen. Jade's relationship with both her father and her brother are complex in what I've seen. Pretty smoothly, Jade is able to coax her father into letting her go to Hollywood by buttering him up, not unlike the way she does to the beach crowd. She also is fiercely protective of Joe. Watching Jade go after Warren is delighful because he is in fact the murderer and the reason her brother went to jail. 

With this scenario in mind (Warren as the murderer), the younger set becomes dramatically more interesting in the long term. Eventually, a Lockridge will be revealed to have killed a Capwell meaning that Laken Lockridge and Ted Capwell's love will be tested. Given the return of Sophia, the Hollywood starlet, on the horizon, and Jade's intense desire to become an actress, the obvious next stage is Ted and Jade once Warren has been outed as the murderer and Joe has been cleared of the crime. Ted and Jade now threatens every dynamic in the younger set: Ted/Laken, Laken/Jade, Jade/Danny, and Danny/Ted. Also, Danny and Ted would have also have had to survive the inevitable revelation that knowledge of the existence of  Santana and Channing's child would shake the foundations of the ties between the Capwell and Andrade clans. 

I see Jade becoming deeply attached to Sophia and there being shades of an 'All About Eve' style plot with Sophia pushing Ted towards Jade because of the animosity among the Lockridges and the Capwells, while C.C. struggling with his feelings about the family now that Joe has been revealed to be innocent. Danny and Laken would more than likely grow closer (as I suspect, in the intersecting story, we would see Ruben and Rosa leave C.C.'s employ to go work for the Lockridges, because you know that's a boss move that I could see Minx and Augusta finding common ground on). With the inevitable staging of a movie that Lionel would secretly finance and Sophia and Jade would star in with Danny possibly involved in stunts. 

This casual Hollywood fluff is fun, but it would be a nice counter balance if the show was in the midst of strong high drama, which is potentially there but just never hitting the mark.  The murder mystery stuff is hit or miss. I often wonder how Dominic/Sophia is accomplishing some of this. I know she has a partner in crime, but is she dressing in other outfits to sneak into the police station and such? Joe trying to clear his name, while also being in love with Kelly seems very generic at times. Witherspoon and Wright have chemistry. I don't necessarily hate Kelly and Joe, but I wish there were deeper layers to each character. Marissa Perkins keeps saying Joe has changed. I wish Joe was more hostile and deeply jaded by his prison experience and that Kelly's engagement was driving that rage that would let the audience think that maybe he did in fact kill Channing. I do like that the Joe / Kelly relationship is more complicated. Kelly is trying to move on, but it's clear she can't. There was a nice Rosa/Kelly scene where Rosa gets her to admit she isn't completely over her first love (it's also wild when young consider a counterpoint scene is Santana going off on her own to Acapulco to track down her stolen child while her mother plays sounding board to the white princess she raised when the girl's own mother abandoned her). 

Anyway, the real triangle of interest that seems to be brewing for Joe is that between Joe and Augusta Lockridge with Marissa Perkins in the wings as the antagoinst. Marissa is such a hovering presence in Joe's love life. Trashing the picture of Kelly, pushing her own husband out of the house (and her bed) to protect her Joey. I wish Armstrong leaned into that psycho-sexual dynamic that seems to be in the undercurrent of the writing. 

As I believe I said before, I believe the next stage of the Augusta/Joe/Marissa story would have been Joe ending his relationship with Augusta and her hooking up with Joe's father, John Perkins. I think if they played the Augusta / Marissa dynamic early with Marissa wanting Augusta to keep her hands off her man (Joe) would have given Louise Sorel some chances for some delicious pre-Sophia tongue lashings. Given that Joe commented that John wanted to make Joe into the man John never got to be, hence John's deep hurt at Joe becoming a murderer, adds more sense to not only Marissa desire for Joe (the version of her husband that she fell in love with but who John never truly was) but also the sexual rivalry between father and son as John is envious of Joe's potential as a man that he no longer has. Joe would have won Marissa, but I could see John winning Augusta in the sexual sense with John/Augusta bringing out resentment from both Joe and Marissa. Obviously, for this to work, both John and Marissa would have required stronger actors or at least more appealing in John's case. 

My other missed opportunity on this round of viewing involves Peter Flint. I think Peter Flint should have been a real person that Stephen Meadows' Antonio Fiorno was impersonating. If Antonio/Peter had married Kelly, then been killed they could have brought in the real Peter down the line to at least provide a silly legal obstacle to Kelly and Joe's marriage plans. Though I would have Kelly and realPeter bound over how they were victims of Peter's and having Kelly lean emotionally on the real Peter while Joe is busy caught up in some other plot (ideally, I think I would have Joe pursuing a law degree which could allow him to have Julia as a law professor). Of course, I probably would also want Joe raising faux Peter's baby as well, but I think I mentioned that in my last rant about the potential of this story.  

It's a shame that the show abandons the Santana plot because it is probably my favorite. Santana is fierce and takes no grief from anyone. Her handling of Ramirez is beautiful. Her persistent attacks on C.C. are wonderful. Her devotion to Channing is admirable. She isn't moving on. He is the love of her life. It's a very interesting contrast to Kelly who has abandoned Joe for Peter. I can see what they are trying to do with C.C. and Santana, possibly better because I could see how they were doing it in 1991. The bond is about shared grief and access to a child that unites them. 

I feel like there is the bones of some great conflict as the Andrades come to terms with the role C.C. has played in keeping their grandchild away from them. Rosa and Santana are both determined to keep Ruben from finding out. His knowledge of the child is presented as a great threat to the family's happiness. I would love to see this all play out, but I don't believe it does. I think Rosa coming to terms with her role in the family drama would also be worth seeing. Her loyalty has come at a price that might be too high for even her. 

Mason is just a great character and slowly you can see the layers unraveling. Mason shows up to a party for Peter, who seems to be the perfect blond haired replacement for Channing, hosted by C.C. Peter cannot attend as he is recupeating from a polo accident. Mason becomes the secondary guest of honor with C.C. toasting about his predictions about his son's political career with a slip of the tongue calling Mason Channing. It's a very raw moment, maybe too simple, that just makes it clear the dynamic between the two. Mason will never be Channing. To top it off, there is a great little line about Mason's date, Patricia Hampton (played by one of the stars of the American "Prisoner" show "Dangerous Women), a file clerk at town hall. She isn't one of Channing's type of women, which I wonder if this was intentional given the later revelation about his sexuality. 

The potential in these early episodes could have developed into a show with the roots that would have survived the back to realism 1990s if it had found an audience. Though, I feel the same way about the first few years of "Loving."

1 minute ago, soapfan770 said:

Did Conboy really give Teresa Hill’s Eden that big old set like he built a baseball field for Shayne? 
 

Yes. It did out last the Garden of Eden murders though. Right after Eden "dies," Bill tears it apart and it becomes a much smaller, much darker, and much different looking set that is essentially Bill and briefly Bill and Olivia's for the remainder of 2004 and into 2005 I believe. 

The original set in the picture aired between March, 2003 and May, 2004. I believe by June the set had already been broken down. 

Wheeler pretty much cut a lot of the sets when she came in, which made sense. Orchid Manor was sold. Eden's apartment underwent renovations. I think even the lobby of the Beacon lobby shrank, but I might be wrong. That Main Street set I think was used in May, 2004, to reintroduce Marina (Mandy Bruno) after Kit Paquin's quick exit. I don't remember it being used very often. The office that was used for Harley's Angels was eliminated, which I think may have housed a crisis hotline in memory of Ben Reade. 

in rewatching that 2004 episode, I forgot how intiially there was also a lot of pop music in the Wheeler era. Not only is Daniel Beddingfield's song used (he had appeared a year earlier to sing to Danny and Michelle at their 4th of July wedding) but you can hear Maroon 5's "This Love" playing at Bill's bachelor party as well during a Joey / Lizzie conversation. Prior to this, "All for Love" was used in April for a montage involving the Bauer family and others after Ross one the election (possibly after Leah was born). During the wrap party for Romeo & Juliet, Joey seranaded an absent Tammy (she was off trying to kiss Edmund) with "Your Song" by Elton John. Later in the summer, Dido's "White Flag" played during a teen scene about Tammy and Joey.

One of my favorite episodes from 2004 features Eden's apartment in the beginning and end of the episode:

This episode is about two months into Ellen Wheeler's run when the scripts are still being credited to Ellen Weston. In this period, the show is telling about four or five interlocked storylines that you can see playing out here:

1) Phillip has been released from the sanitarium and has returned to play out a "War of Roses" style marriage to his new bride, Olivia. To secure her daughter's birthright, and to achieve her quest for power that she has been on since she has arrived onscreen, Olivia is looking to take over Spaulding Enterprises. Spaulding is under scrutiny as there is suggestions that the pharmaceutical division is being used to traffick drugs, which has led to a mad stock dump by characters fearing financial losses. Someone has been buying up the stock and Olivia is desperate to know who. 

2) Danny's mob past has come back to haunt him when it comes out that the mayoral election he won has been rigged by the mob. To finally cut ties, Danny is working with the mob to be free. Eden August, Gus's sister and Bill's girlfriend, has also decided she needs to be free from her former lover/partner-in-crime Vinnie Salerno. Both are working with Jeffrey to bring down Salerno and free themselves of their ties to organized crime. Escalating the emotional conflict, Bill has proposed to Eden and they have begun to plan a wedding that is never to be. I believe at the end of the week, we have the warehouse bombing where Eden is "dead" and a nosey Michelle is left with brain damage. 

3) Tammy's romance with Joey Lupo has been complicated by her sexual attraction to her mother's boyfriend, Edmund. Meanwhile, Lizzie is sniffing around Joey wanting him for herself. Tammy's mother and Edmund are aware of Tammy's infatuation, but Joey still is in the dark (I believe). I believe Sandy's "idea" that he speaks about is the Spaulding internship contest. 

4) Sandy has developed an infatuation with Marina, even though Marina is involved with Sandy's brother, Shayne. Shayne is blissfully unaware. 

The highlights in this for me are:

a) Alexandra and Philip's scenes at Spaulding Enterprises. Probably some of Dusay's finest, understated work. Also, there's a Lujack reference. 

b) Olivia crashing Bill's bachelor party to Daniel Beddingfield's "James Dean" which is basically the beginning of the Olivia / Bill pairing. 

c) Billy's presence as the host of the party. 

d) The general cast integration at the bachelor party with interplay between characters who don't interact like Gus / Edmund. 

That isn't the country club. It is Eden's apartment where she initially ran her escort business and then appeared until Deborah Zoe was let go in May, 2004. After Zoe departed, the set underwent reconstruction on air and became much smaller. 

I know the younger set (Ben, Remy, Marah, Bill?) moved into the carriage house at some point. Did the carriage house become Orchid Manor? Because Orchid Manor looks just like the set...

13 hours ago, P.J. said:

The odd thing is, if you had not told me these were GL sets, I wouldn't have recognized a one of them. It's bizarre. But I clearly remember Ross' Carriage House, Reva Bend, the Bauer kitchen, the Spaulding mansion, Company and The Towers. Even the Springfield Country Club. The third one on the top might be gothic enough to be Quentin's Thornway Rd house, but that's the only real guess I could make.

I'm struggling to figure out the time period of the sets. Two of my guesses are pretty obscure. The lower purple set I believe was the base of operations for Garden of Eden, Eden's escort business. I'm also thinking that the more gothic looking set might have been Danny and Michelle's place from the same era, the Orchid Manor. My guesses, though, may be wildly off. 

"Thanks for Tomorrow" is a bit of a mystery. The doesn't seem to last that long. I've seen it described as a summer replacement and the number of papers listing in in their listings definitely seems to drop around mid-September, 1949, though some places list it well until the end of 1949. There is a Teri Keane article that floats around during this period claiming her character on "Thanks for Tomorrow" has recently married. 

In 1950, there is some publicity regarding a revival of the show that NBC is shopping around as a West Coast recorded serial starring Charles Boyer in the lead role. I don't think this proposed soap ever occurred. Also, there is a play by a Roy Bailey from 1937-1938 called "Thanks for Tomorrow" about a spoiled young man who gets involved in crime and has a blind sister. I can't help wonder if that wasn't some of the source material. Articles at the time suggest that TfT was also a bit of a version of the film "Enchanted Cottage."

The conversations in "The Guiding Light" thread have me intrigued about the first years of the new "Guiding Light" so I've been looking into 1947-1950. Basically, the material leading up to the long stretch of episodes available. 

The show seems to move through a lot of story in the first year. The opening plot involving Roger Barton's decision to reinvent himself as Ray Brandon after fifteen years in prison for a crime he didn't commit is intriguing. Ray's decision to build a legal career puts him in an interesting position. It gives him insight into both sides of the law. The need for connection with the life he was forced to leave behind (his wife, Julie, and his son, Roger Barton (now Collins), Jr. ) shaped Roger/Ray as a character in the vein of many Phillips' complicated heroines, young women who have had lost access to their children. 

In my opinion, it would seem that the Ray story borrows the most from the earlier Frances Holden/Frederika Lang plot. Frances had been in a bad marriage and abandoned her child with Rev. Rutledge to give her child Ned a life while she was on the run because of her involvement in a crime her husband committed. Ray was forced to give his child up under similar circumstances; he was implicated in a crime he didn't commit, except he was taken from his child rather than being given a choice. I imagine, like Frederika, that Ray and Roger must have met eventually. And while Frederika's murder of her duplicitious husband Paul nearly landed her on death row, Ray's revenge plot against Martin McClaine (who set him up for embezzlement) threatens to destroy his son's love for Susan, Martin's daughter.  There are deviations. Instead of Ray on trial, it is Julie Barton Collins, Ray's former wife, who ends up on trial for the murder/accidental death of her second husband, Frank Collins. I imagine that it is Ray who helps Julie get off. 

Julie gets off in the spring of 1948, just about the time that Ray Brandon has married radio sensation Charlotte Wilson, which would seem to set the next stage of the drama (a Julie / Ray / Charlotte triangle with a newly single Julie going after a life she never had). Though, maybe this angle wasn't explored as much as the show also quickly married off Susan and Roger (by no later than June, 1948) with Susan soon having a baby, Betty Ann Collins (also voiced by Mary Lansing). I could definitely see Julie being a utility player who could have been the link to Ray's past that he never completely gotten over as well as potentially the meddling mother-in-law/grandmother given her own two children, Betty and Michael, had died in 1947. It's also possible that none of this was as complex as this. 

The Bauers arrive in the show's second year. Jan Carter/Meta Bauer first around June/July, 1948. Eve McVeagh is said to be Jan Carter #2 so I'd be curious who she repalced. Her roommate Mary Leland was also introduced. I'm curious how Leland fit into the bigger story initially. Potential romantic interest for married Dr. Jonathan McNeill? Or replacement as Lurene Tuttle (Mary Leland #2) was earlier Clare Lawrence McNeill? Anyway, the rest of the Bauers are introduced in the fall. I suspect that Jan Carter might have been a career rival for Charlotte Brandon, who's successful program "Radio Stardust" was occasssionally the focus of entire episodes. 

I am also curious if Ray's prior experience with being forced away from his own child had any impact on how he handled himself during the custody trial for little Chucky, who it hadn't dawned on me was named after Dr. Charles Matthews. Ray could have gone either way on this issue. He could have understood Meta's pain given his own experience or been fueled by animosity towards a woman who gave up something he had been deprived of. In the end, I know Charlotte was more sympathetic to Meta, but I imagine her drug problem (that was being stoked by her involvement with her old flame, Larry Lawrence, in late 1949) would have eventually played into Meta and Ted's favor. 

The "guiding light" figure seems to switch from Dr. Charles Matthews to Dr. Paul Keeler around February, 1950. Matthews is listed in ads for the beginning of February and sometimes beyong, but Keeler is mentioned by the end of the month. Keeler, I believe, fades out in 1953 and I don't think there is a replacement. 

10 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Was there any talk of changing the opening credits as the years passed, or was the intro seen as too iconic (or they didn't want to spend the money)?

I think it's been said Raunch was planning for a new opening sequence in 1993 had the show continued. 

10 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Very cool! Lemay was with SFT?  I know he was consulting on ATWT pre Marland...(during the Bob/Kim wedding, and I have a feeling that is why Nancy had her snap back during that time..I know Lemay was always freaked out about a matriarch and I think original recipe Nancy was right up his alley with her controlling ways...) Did not know Mulcahey was on Search either, would love to hear what he says about MEB..I think the Dobson's second stint worked better because of her, but it still was not ATWT..(though I would love to hear about her Fulton's tug of war.)

We talked a bit about Lemay's 1981 run in the SFT thread. His on-air run is very short. I want to say the last week of March until whenever the strike episodes hit (probably the second or third week of May). Due to his love for meddling mamas, Mignon Sentell returned to Henderson fresh from the asylum and became obsessed with her new adopted grandson, Roger Lee. Mignon showed up during the strike, but it seems pretty clear that she was a return planned by Lemay. Lemay's bible was most likely used through at least July, but I think it was more than likely picked through until at least early August when Suzi and Brian are both introduced properly. Don Chastain told the press that he (Chastain) had been writing for the show during the strike, but didn't submit a story bible until September/ October, 1981, and was basically fired immediately afterwards. His bible included a plotline involving Travis Sentell going to outer space; Chastain was quoted as saying he had the NASA footage he was going to use for it in his hallway closet, or some closet. 

Mulcahey came to soaps through "Search for Tomorrow." The Corringtons knew of his work and invited him to write for them. This was stated in his Locher Room interview. 

In the original run, the role of the "guiding light" evolved. Arthur Peterson went to war so the character of Reverend Rutledge was written out of the series with Dr. Richard Gaylord taking over. Peterson returned from service and temporarily returns, but ends up leaving again. Gaylord may stay on for a bit, but he wasn't the final "guiding light." That role belongs to Phil Lord's Reverend Frank Tuttle, who was introduced in the fall of 1945 (most likely October). 

I think a lot of the show's "old guard" disappears when Rutledge goes off to War. I don't see many references to Ned and Mary Holden, Rose Kransky, or others. I think Mrs. Kransky sticks around because her son Jacob is sent off to War and she is around later when Clare Lawrence is around as is her adoptive son, Ricky, and his mother, Nina, who was the first wife of Clare's then husband, Tim. 

Another thing to remember is that the first time "Guiding Light" is cancelled (October 13, 1939) the Kranskys are launched into a new serial, "The Right to Happiness," which premiers Monday. When "Guiding Light" returns in early 1940, the Kranskys are transferred back and "The Right to Happiness" has to alter its story structure.

Dr. Jonathan McNeil and his wife, Clare Lawrence McNeil, were also in the original series. Jonathan had been on since the early 1940s being played by Arthur Kohl and then Sidney Breese.  

The prison story that @Paul Raven referred to is the Roger Barton. He had spent several years in prison for embezzlement, a crime he hadn't committed. Upon returning, he learned his wife had married another man and that his son was a college student romantically involved with the daughter of the man who had set him up. In order to integrate himself back into his old world without the baggage, he rechristened himself Ray Brandon. 

1 hour ago, Khan said:

I agree.

Thank you for reminding me about the Emmons Carlson case and its' aftermath, @dc11786.  I tend to think the court ruled in favor of Carlson on account of his gender.

It's possible, but Phillips has a history of claiming ownership over things that aren't hers. Orin Tovrov created "The Brighter Day," but she eventually usurped the show from him and proclaimed she had created it so this wouldn't have been unusual. 

Do other genres have as many issues with the issue of creator credits as soaps do? 

It is very upsetting to hear that Bridget Dobson has passed. She was a very talented woman. 

"Santa Barbara" is by no means the show I know the best or have loved the most, but it is always a show who's foundation is the most intriguing. I find the initial set up of the work of the first generation Andrades, the blue collar Perkins, the eccentric old money Lockridges, and the wealthy and haunted Capwells a fascinating group of people. Santana Andrade's aborted run as the show's central anti-heroine willing to do whatever it takes to reunite with the child she had been coerced into giving up should have been told for years and years as Brandon was forced to choose between the mother who he loved and loved him and the woman who brought him into the world.  

I know many have explored Irna Phillips' writing through the lens of her desire to be someone's mother stemming from the child she lost and the children she adopted, but I have to wonder if Dobson doesn't have her own noteworthy story arc. Through her work at "Guiding Light," "As the World Turns," and "Santa  Barbara," there was always a story about someone being switched at birth (Phillip, James/Gunnar, Brick). I can't help but wonder if Dobson wasn't working through her own desire to be someone else's daughter. 

In thinking about the Dobsons' final run in 1991, I cannot help but notice that Brick was one of the few originals that didn't return, which makes me consider the missed opportunity on not only the part of the Dobsons but on Pam Long, who wanted integrate a lower class family. While Brick was Sophia's son, he grew up in the circus and was surrounded in the dwindling middle class world that existed when he was on the series. I think that he should have come back in 1992 in place of the creation of Reese Walker. Brick Wallace returning to Santa Barbara with his new wife Jodie and their brood of his, her, and their children. 

20 hours ago, Khan said:

My guess is that P&G had decided that GL's locale needed to be returned to the midwest in order to appeal more to viewers who lived in middle America.  After all, the only reason why the show's locale had been changed to Selby Flats, CA, in the first place was because production itself had been relocated to CA for a period of time in the '40's.  Otherwise, GL's locale might have remained Five Points forever.

I can see the sign now: "Welcome to Selby Flats - Ugly Name, Beautiful Town!".

I don't think it would have stayed in Five Points. Legally speaking, Irna Phillips isn't the sole creator of "The Guiding Light." Emmons Carlson won a court case in the mid-1940s where he was given a significant share ownership of the original series. I believe the show originally folded in late 1946 in part because Phillips wanted a show that was her own. I believe the court case declared that the intended production move to Los Angeles was halted.  As you probably know, the show is off the air for about seven months between the end of the Five Points era and the start of Selby Flats setting in June, 1947. 

Phillips had been very enthralled with Hollywood and shifted several of her shows to California as she had relocated herself. "The Right to Happiness" also introduced a stroy involving an actress and her daughter which was set between Hollywood and the midwest. 

I'd be curious if the shift back to the midwest had anything to do with "Another World." Like did Irna and Agnes decide to change the locations in order to facilitate easier transition for Mike and Hope Bauer and potentially other visiting guests. 

I'm also sorry to hear Bridget Dobson has passed. 

On the topic of short lived cable soaps from the 1980s, I've come across a couple of clips in my search

This has a little under 6 minutes of "33 Brompton Place." This was a Canadian production that aired on Showtime in the States. It was technically aired under the umbrella of "Romance," the soapy anthology series that pre-dated "A New Day in Eden" and "Loving Friends and Perfect Couples" by a few months. There were probably 5 or six stories. "Brompton Place" aired in June-July in place of one of the usual "Romance" stories. 

A young Roberta Weiss has a pretty substantial part in this clip. 

I also learned that Marilyn Chambers' soap/anthology "Love Ya' Florence Nightgale" about a sex surrogate Kelly Carson was cut and sold as a soft core film several years after the production ended. It was renamed as "My Therapist." If you look the title up on YouTube, you can easily find the film. I'm choosing not to link because it is basically porn with a bit more plot. David Winn (Steve Williams, "Young and the Restless") plays her boyfriend and they have some romantic scenes. Winn's butt appears at one point. 

@Khan In response to your question about the writers, here are the script writers for episodes 49-66 (missing 59 & 60):

Script #125 (Parts 49 & 50): Patrick Mulcahey

Script #126 (Parts 51 & 52): Doug Marland

Script #127 (Parts 53 & 54): Linda Hamner & Gary Hamner

Script #128 (Parts 55 & 56): Patrick Mulcahey

Script #129 (Parts 57 & 58): Linda Hamner & Gary Hamner

Script #130 (Parts 59 & 60): No information available 

Script #131 (Parts 61 & 62): Linda Hamner & Gary Hamner

Script #132 (Parts 63 & 64): Patrick Mulcahey

Script #133 (Parts 65 & 66): Linda Hamner & Gary Hamner

@DRW50 Thanks. It´s always great when anything ¨A New Day in Eden¨ pops up. 

The blonde man is Grant Wilson (who played the role of Biff Lewis on ¨Eden.¨) Biff was suppose to be the young antagonist who bedded all the women in Eden. In the scripts I have, Biff is typically the source of the R-rated material. In this preview, I believe his female blonde companion is one of the murder victims (Penny Landis maybe).

The creepy guy offering to show the woman around Eden was Emmett Claybourne (Jeff Severson). He was the controlling, manipulative lawyer who worked for the Lewis clan (the central family) and was also sexually assaulting his college age daughter.  The woman he is offering to show around Eden is Gail Lee (Victoria Tan), who worked for AURIC, the government agency funding part of Eden´s revitalization project which had ties to Lewis Electronics. Emmett will attempt to rape Gail in a future episode. 

I was a bit surprised to see a big deal was made out of Miranda Stevens´ (Maggie Sullivan) past with Clint Masterson (Jack Wagner) so early in the show. This was a detail that was reiterated later in the show. Melvyn Masteron was the name of Clint´s father and Miranda´s former fiance. 

I´m still amused that the show used a picture of actors Grant Wilson (Biff) and Wendy Barry (Shelley Novack) to promote the show. By the end of the show, Biff is in love with Francie Richardson (Dana Halsted) and Shelley has been off in the hospital for months (the downside of the show was that the scripts were written as if it was aired daily so Shelley is in an explosion in March and is still in a hospital room in August as the show wraps up). From what I can gather, Shelley was initially the poor working class schemer, but the decision was made to declaw Shelley and have her softened. Part of me wonders if they blew Lori up so they could recast. The above mentioned Emmett Clayborne was written out and the setup in scripts suggest he would be recast (it states that his daughter Cynthia will look at his picture but they are not to show the actual picture). Though the fact that Shelley´s cousin Lori Novack arrives in the final days of ¨Eden¨ and it looks like she might be taking over Shelley´s mantle now that Shelley was in love with one of the Sowolsky boys. So maybe they would have kept Wendy Barry. 

From CurlyQGrl´s site

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March 31, 1994 - No Commercials - Ned thinks of Lois while with Katherine. Brenda takes Lois back to the mansion and she meets the Qs. Brenda hides a photo of Ned. Laura wants to know why they have not heard from Frank yet. Lois wows Edward with her way with numbers. Felicia brings wedding cake back to the ever-improving Maxie. Luke shows off his smooth dance moves to Lucky and Sly. Jenny and Paul are back from their honeymoon and come to the Spencers to collect Sly. Brenda, Lois, AJ and Jason hit the Q hot tub. AJ puts the moves on Lois. Laura tells Jenny that she and Luke love having Sly around and he is always welcome at their house. Lois sees the photo of Ned in the Q den.

The site is sometimes a little bit harder to find minor supporting roles. The last reference I can find to Sly Eckert is 

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January 23, 1996 - With Commercials - Lucy meets with the ADA about Katherine. Lois helps out at Ward House. Sonny stops by and he and Lois talk about his upcoming marriage. Lucky’s pal invites him back into the bike shop poker games. Lucky tells Emily and Sly about owing money from the last go around and swearing off playing. But later he decides to join a big time game. Tom talks with Tommy about Simone’s marriage to Justus. Mike sees just how deep Lucky is in playing cards. Justus opens Sonny’s donation to Ward House. Justus still gets the cold shoulder from Tommy. Luke almost catches Lucky taking money from his emergency backpack. Katherine worries about Lucy testifying for her in front of the grand jury.

If anyone else remembers seeing him beyond this, please jump in.