EricMontreal22

Ah I haven't compared the DTR Karen on the Stand with the time it was shown in the Farewell marathon though I have both on DVDR--but yeah, I was surprised to see with the AMC episode how they chopped out different scenes--I would have assumed they'd just use the same edit or something. I first noticed it back when Agnes Nixon's website still had their videos up and I saved those AMC kinescopes which I've since uploaded to YT (how I wish I had thought to save all the video on that site--they had her complete Museum of TV seminar from 1988, the twentieth anniversary of OLTL, online which now seems only possible to view of you go to the Paley Center and I could have really used for my research essay, but I digress). They all run nearly exactly 23 minutes without commercials, whereas the two kinescoped episodes of AMC that aired as part of the first I Love Lucci SoapNet marathon run about 19 minutes (which I think is the current standard for amount of programming on daytime for a 30 minute soap...) What's funny is often at least with the themed SoapNet marathon the stuff that would be edited would be the stuff that didn't fit the "theme" (for example, in the I Love Lucci marathon they'd air a 1983 episode but when they went to trim scenes those would be from the storylines not about Erica). But usually it was those less well known side stories and side characters (not that the Brooks' sisters should be considered side characters but by 1984 they were) that get trimmed...

That’s where I think it was from too. All the Daytime to Remember episodes were of course edited for time (some hour episodes were only shown in one half hour slot but all episodes had a scene or two shaved for more commercials just as they would for SoapNet marathons—in fact I noticed one AMC episode shown on DTR had a scene that was cut when it later showed up on SoapNet yet the SN airing had a different scene that DTR cut—I believe it was on the 1979 Tom confronts Erica about her birth control pills episode). But this one more than I knew at the tile as it originally red just a few months after OLTL went to 45 mins. Still at the time I was just thrilled to see the first Dorian!

Remember for a while there she was very against the idea of returning to a soap (I think she felt the work wasn't important enough)> She did AMC for six months (with a special title card in the opening credits with her image) as a favour to Agnes Nixon who only convinced her to do it when she said her character, Amy Tyler, could and would speak out against the Vietnam war and reflect Rosemary's own political beliefs. She also did How to Survive a Marriage in 1975 when it started because it was being contextualized as the first truly feminist and progressive soap that wouldn't show women dependent on romantic fulfillment (some people said this is partly what killed it--many long speeches that didn't feel natural, etc). I *believe* she played a marriage counselor (I'm not even sure if she lasted for its brief run--the focus seemed to move to other characters and it quickly changed writers). She also wanted to focus more on theatre, etc, as well. Of course, like many actors who leave soaps for a variety of reasons, after some time her feelings about them seemed to mellow (and perhaps she also appreciated the steady income they'd provide) and I'm sure she would have returned to ATWT on a more permanent basis... That all sounds vaguely familiar. It did seem like suddenly they were getting very ambitious (did they ever release AW sets?) and then *boom* they closed up shop. You're right, of course, that it's pretty common for companies to want to sound as hopeful as possible about a future return, etc, even when that doesn't seem likely... Frustrating.

Also how come so many names (with Lemay getting an "and" credit) get the first grouping, then the break down writers and script writers. Does the WGA make it so that everyone who contributes to the longterm story has to get that first credit? (The people I was surprised to see were Lemay--as I thought he was a silent consultant--Gillian Spencer who i had no idea was ever on the OLTL team and Tom King)

Randomly watching bits of episodes from the BELOVED Jill Farren Phelps era of OLTL, and specifically the 8 month period between Pam Long and McTavish's HW stints when there was no credited HW, these writing credits caught me by surprise by a number of names listed--including one person who I had always thought had just been an uncredited consultant for a brief period...

That's all well and good and in theory true--but it isn't whatsoever what Jarrod was spouting.

Oh Hugh, calling Debbie Reynolds' appearance "bland"! The Debbie Reynolds Show was one of three attempts by creator Jess Oppenheimer to recreate his success on I Love Lucy with sitcoms around a bored wife and her schemes/fantasies based around a minor female celeb (Angel, and Glynis being the other two). His son, Greg Oppenheimer, has a YT channel and has uploaded high quality copies of some of his father's stuff, including a ton of episodes of Angel (1960-61) which actually reversed the I Love Lucy concept a bit by making the wife the foreigner who mixes up English words and expressions. Watch at your own wish (I wish they'd upload some of Glynis if only because I adore Glynis Johns...) All I've ever found of Glynis (she played a mystery writer who helped her husband solve mysteries)

I wish I knew more about the deal SoapClassics made. They licensed their stuff for... a year? It seemed a very brief amount of time, anyway (none of the P&G soaps have ever been *my* soap, but I did plan on at least buying a few of the box sets except that during that time I was deeply in dept and I always assumed, while I knew they were around for just a limited time, that they'd be more easier available a *bit* longer than they were--BTW is there a site that lists exactly how many different box sets they DID ultimately release and which episodes? Everything I can find online, now that their site is gone, seems very incomplete). At any rate, they seemed to be a very small company and yet I gather the DVDs did sell at least as well as expected. Surely this shows that such releases of classic soap episodes is very possible and would do decently? (The only commercial release I know of that has been done in N America are the B&B sets...). All very frustrating. Oh, and I agree with everyone else about ATWT (and to a lesser extent GL) around the holidays and how missed it is. I was never a regular viewer, but would always watch during Christmas break (and especially enjoyed the vintage episodes they usually aired on days off).

SHe deserved a better show than one written by a novelty songwriter, but I've always loved this performance. Ed Sullivan (SOFA Entertainment owns the rights I think) *really* needs to do something with the hours they have of brilliant musical theatre performances. A lot of us theatre geeks have bootleg copies of the stuff (when I was a teen one of the first bootlegs I got was a present of 8 VHS tapes filled with them--all with a timestamp like this has), and most of it is on Youtube if you look hard enough though SOFA has been known to every few years wipe them all out. They release ONE hour long DVD (with promises of more) with a few of the iconic ones, but it would be great to have them in the best possible quality (unlike the soaps and so much other TV, I believe every episode of Ed Sullivan, at least from 1955 on, was saved on video). Just so many gems, and so often recreated with the original costumes, staging and choreography and some remnants of the original scenery for shows and performances that otherwise would be completely lost.

Tight trousers indeed!

I'm impressed that she seems to remember so many story details off the cuff from 30 or so years before this interview was done--full character names, etc. Seriously, so many soap actors can't do that (and I don't blame them).

" Also you have no idea if I am multiracial/multicultural. Or others on this board. We are not shoving our ethnic heritage front and center in the majority of our posts. I think you get a weird satisfaction from going round and round in circles about race. I am not against a good dialogue about race, but you have to start saying something new, something different, not beat the same old drum all the time. It alienates others who would likely be on your side because they believe in progressive issues as a whole. I feel sorry for black people who over identify with being black; I feel sorry for white people who over identify with being white; and with gay people who over identify with being gay, etc. It's only one part of who you are. Stop narrowly defining yourself and clinging to victimization. Be truly progressive and move yourself forward. The second A in NAACP stands for advancement. Advance yourself, stop pulling yourself back and allowing yourself to be defined by one part of yourself that you can't even be positive about, a part that on some level must seem like an inescapable curse. " This is the most inanely bizarre thing I've read on this board in a VERY long time. And that's saying something. Sure race or sexuality is only "one part of who someone is"--but it IS one big part, and it is you Jarrod, who has the problem if you find it irrelevant that someone would bring it up on here when discussing how they've seen different storylines handled where it becomes incredibly relevant.

Ah I missed that--had no idea ABC even acknowledged the online versions....

Fascinating--I dunno why I haven't gotten around to tracking down a copy of that book yet. Hubbell was actually Chuck number 3 http://www.pinevalleybulletin.com/Quick Guide/BiographiesWeb/TylerChuck.html

😮 When was it shot?

You don't recognize sorta-almost former teen idol Jay R. Ferguson? (He was Ponyboy in The Outsiders TV series...) I loved him as Stan on Mad Men, his most significant role and I'm glad he's on a hit after being a lead in several sitcoms (The Real O'Neals and last year's Living Biblically) that went nowhere. Apparently he briefly dated Sara Gilbert--in this stylish ensemble

I'm glad you enjoyed! Interestingly a year later there was a major shake up (even if the actors themselves seemed to want new writers, I'm glad TPTB didn't replace Gordon and Hall who would go on to write some of their best work.)

That's my fault but I know at least one major writer who I've chatted with a fair amount--a lot of stuff had to be completely off the record, certain things they wouldn't answer, when I did an official interview with them that I could pull quotes from for my grad essay, I had to agree to let those quotes be reviewed, etc--and that seems pretty typical of the majority of the people who were in the bizz. I guess it's just about not burning any bridges cuz you never know what connection you might have for other possible jobs?

I'm actually still watching--God knows why (just like God knows how this was renewed). And... I think I like this season a lot more than the first season. Maybe I just now like the characters? It's not great TV, it's definitely a show that I watch while doing other things, but... *hides*

An online "friend" of mine who used to be involved with AMC has mentioned and recommended a book to me that I'd never heard of, though with the caveat that he thinks the gossip and talk in it is only about 60-70% right (but that seems like a decent ratio for a very biased tell-all). Has anyone else read it? I'll probably eventually get a copy with hopefully some Christmas money... Apparently it's filled with details about the turmoil behind the scenes on AMC (and a bit at OLTL) in the second half of the 1990s--including the firing and rehiring of McTavish and the EP shuffle... http://www.mondocult.com/articles/makeup.html http://www.makeupandmisery.com/ SOAP OPERAS ARE DYING OFF. But years before the funeral began, veteran makeup man Norman Bryn was embalming Divas in front of the camera, while dueling with some behind it too! Makeup & Misery: Adventures in the Soap Factory relates Norm’s five-year cosmetic chronicle doing simultaneous duty at All My Children for Disney/ABC and NBC’s Saturday Night Live. Stars including the late Phil Hartman, Susan Lucci, Sarah Michelle Gellar and Kelly Ripa appear in this frank behind-the-scenes look at network TV production from the viewpoint of the makeup artist. Facelifts and friendships, hirings and firings, death, politics, Emmys, unions, and the rivalries among cast and crew drive this story of the decline of Daytime Serials right up to 2009. Slashed budgets, falling ratings, the threat of Reality-TV and the internet paint a vivid picture of the changing fortunes of soaps and the TV business in general. This “makeup memoir” is a must-read for would-be cosmeticians, actors, and of course soap fans.

I guess Taggert really (with different other writers) has the most accumulated years writing for Loving--four or so? I find her late 80s stuff with King has good individual scenes but kinda dull stories--a lot of corporate world based stories which never seemed to be what Loving should be about. I agree that Babbin helped them create their strongest work. In a soap rag interview I found with her when she came on, she has a clear vision for the show--unfortunately she also says she has only agreed to join on as a "favour" (I assume to Nixon after their time at AMC?) and will ONLY be there for a year, which in soap terms isn't really all that long as you know... (Ironically though Fran Sears stayed on as EP after her for even less time, and I doubt the year commitment was one of her conditions) I forgot that Ceara interacted with them--well I mean I know she stayed at the Rescott's in that first AMC crossover in '91, but... That sounds fair--I probably hold Walsh's Loving to too high a standard because it's when I started to watch the show as a kid (I was an AMC nut and only became aware and started watching Loving with the 91 AMC crossover, and only started watching daily the following summer with the full on Carter Jones AMC/LOV crossover). It was 1986 wasn't it that the snake happened? I adore the fact that Agnes Nixon always maintained that was one of her all time favourite storylines I mean I've tracked down very little of it, but just due to the rep it has, etc, it kinda makes me happy that Agnes stands by it. I would love to know more details about why Granger and Walsh disagreed so strongly that Walsh broke her contract leaving the show without a headwriter for four or so months (and that woulda been just when the AMC Carter crossover was revving up *I think* if I have my dates right--I always wondered who wrote what for that--Agnes Nixon had just passed the official AMC headwriting reigns over to McTavish but she was still involved obviously in both soaps... I assume you're not at those episodes yet (and I may have the dates wrong...) Agreed about the parent/child stuff... Agnes Nixon probably had no interest in trying another gay storyline--while researching my MA essay about gays on her soaps I found a brief interview where she mentions how little story they were allowed to tell with the 1983 Lynn Carter lesbian storyline on AMC (and of course Agnes originally wanted it to be a gay male storyline but ABC said they already had a gay male on TV--Stephen on Dynasty) and finally realized it was just "too soon" to tell that story, so diving into a gay story on her new soap right around the same time probably felt useless. But it's not a bad idea. Early Loving certainly wanted to push the boundaries (and they could have tied it into the AIDS research story which really went nowhere even if it was even just groundbreaking to mention AIDS on a soap in 1983). I'm not saying Doug would have AIDS but... (And I see you just had the same thought lower down in your post LOL sorry I'm replying as I read...) Agreed there. I wonder if that was partly Marland's fault. The Donovans seem to want to fit into his Snyder prototype sorta boring lower middle class family slot that he's so attached to but I find kinda dull...

I'm sure there is much more "embarrassing" footage from his career out there... Sigh. It is crazy how quickly most of the Donovans were written out...

What was great to read though was all the transcribed conversation between Gordon, Sam and Gordon's secretary Joan--which gave you a sense of listening in on them. While you can tell there might be already some mixed feelings between Sam and Gordon, it also seems like grumpy Sam exaggerated his feelings for the lack of work and talent Gordon showed in his interviews much later for Llanview in the Afternoon--that's just a guess, but (or maybe he grew tired of Gordon later on). They also imply that Gordon hired Sam... And of course it's interesting to hear Agnes' role--that she will consult if they need her and she's *required* to consult if ratings are in trouble--one such rating slip seemingly leading to her suggesting that they kill Victor off. Also this seems to prove that Wiki is (what's new?) wrong and Doris Quinlan was EP at the show at the time (I know she also worked in that capacity at AMC with some overlap there--I think with Agnes and Bud Kloss playing much of that role at AMC).

I mean I assume Ron would have had access to the ABC archives which go back to 1978? (77?) with a few earlier episodes and MAYBE they made him copies but even so, I bet it's more just key episodes from his time at the show. Isn't it bizarre?! This was for a PHD it seems, not just a MA paper. He goes from very jargon filled pages and pages about methodology, etc, and then weird stream of conscious narration about his experience. Still, it's pretty amazing that apparently he traveled to New York and was granted access to the writers for an entire week. It does list the readers and it was signed off and stored at the school so I assume he did complete his studies, though... But yeah, you're not kidding about padding--I mean is there any reason he has to say that attendance in the last class was low, or he was also going to spend some time visiting his family, what the lighting was like, how "fine" his stereo back at home is, etc? (Funny as I've been writing my MA paper on soaps--and grant you it is much much shorter with a requirement of under 10,000 words which came to about 35 pages, the emphasis with each submission has all been about editing as much as possible).

While writing my MA essay on Agnes Nixon and gay storylines in soaps, I came across this--has this been discussed and I missed it? A VERY analytical dissertation on OLTL from the mid 1970s but it has fascinating stuff--script excerpts, a hint that Sam Hall and Gordon Russell did not get along (*shock* ), confirmation that Agnes Nixon basically suggested the death of Victor Lord story, etc... https://etd.ohiolink.edu/pg_10?105547168403::NO:10:P10_ETD_SUBID:132868#abstract-files (scroll down to the download links)