vetsoapfan

The all-too-brief Calhoun/Nancy Curlee tenure proved conclusively that TGL could be repaired with the right people in charge. Sadly, the show had been so badly butchered for so long, I think former fans had just become too burned out and were hesitant to give it yet another chance. There comes a point when viewers finally give up, and their emotional attachment to a series evaporates. A less-than-skilled actor always ends up looking even worse when the material he's asked to play is weak. I know we are stuck with Bradley Bell, all things considered, but he should have been replaced decades ago. IMHO, B&B did not showcase Bill Bell's best work, either, but Bradley's writing is subpar.

The Billy Douglas/AIDS quilt saga was beautifully done. It will forever boggle my mind how Michael Malone produced some fine material during his first tenure on the show (after a rocky start), but bombed so badly during his second stint. TGL gutted such a huge number of its core cast members in 1983 and 1984, it just did not feel like "my show" anymore. The return of Maureen Garrett and Michael Zaslow was a much-needed relief and shot in the arm. Familiar characters with a history in Springfield, played by wonderful actors, were so welcome. If only TPTB could have gotten Mart Hulswit back as Ed Bauer. Ronn Moss showing acting skill was a miracle in itself, LOL!

I know. It's so frustrating when you are totally invested in watching vintage soap storylines, and then the videos just dry up and stop before the stories reach the conclusion. ARGH!

God yes. ITA 100%. That hug just popped into my head since you mentioned the Bob/Susan affair. After bitter animosity between Susan and Kim for decades (over both Dan Stewart and Bob), why the hell would Kim hug her? Even Ellen Stewart held a grudge against Susan and snarked at Susan until leaving Oakdale. Part of the reason the greats were so...great!

Doug Marland was one of those rare writers who studied the past of his shows extensively, and wove it into present-day stories to strengthen the impact. Pat Falken Smith, Claire Labine and Agnes Nixon were also great at this when they took over the writing reigns of soaps, whereas the likes of Hogan Sheffer and Pam Long failed big time.) It was so effective. I get the sense that many writers just don't bother to delve into their shows' deep histories at all, which leads to glaring continuity, characterization and plot blunders. The two stories you mentioned were excellent. (But how stupid was it of ATWT to have Kim hugging Susan, of all people, in the soap's final episode? Susan? REALLY?)

Ahh, yet another gem by the legendary Henry Slesar, who thrilled viewers of TEON for many years with a succession of masterful stories. The dumbest move TPTB ever made was firing Slesar in 1983 and replacing him with the mediocre Lee Sheldon. The plummeting quality of the writing was instantaneous. The list of gems HS gave us on TEON, however, was impressive.

I haven't had access to Emmerdale since about 2011, but I did enjoy the series way back when, with the Sugden family having a presence in the village. I was happy to have seen Annie Sugden's final appearance on the show in 2009, when the last of her three children passed away. I preferred the quieter, character-based slice-of-life quality of the early years over the melodrama which seemed to take over later on. I can't believe they kept killing off (or otherwise discarding) so many Sugdens. I know I'd have trouble watching the show nowadays, since I have always loathed the Dingles. I'm now curious to know how many of "my characters," the ones whom I liked when I watched the show, are still around. I'll have to check it out. I think the last storyline I got to see was Jackson Walsh's death.

That was one of my incentives for creating this thread. Since so many of my favorite storylines were broadcast long before episodes started being preserved, I was wondering if there were any "more recent" stories from the last 40 years or so, which would be more likely to survive and be worth taking a look at now (according to other fans). I still semi-keep up with today's soaps, but haven't watched any of them daily for a few decades. I figured my fellow SONers might surprise me.🙃 Yes, the scenes between Jill and Katherine after Phillip's death were quite memorable. That conflict was so well set up, it helped carry the show for YEARS to come. Kudos to Bill Bell for understanding that absorbing, long-arc storylines keep viewers glued to the edge of their seats year after year. Pat Falken Smith's return to DAYS could have jump-started a return to the halcyon period of yore in Salem. During her brief comeback, she implemented savvy storyline and character decisions which noticeably perked up the dreary show. It's a shame that she was axed so quickly, after only six months. DAYS has not had a truly great head writer in 44 years. (Yes, some have been slightly better than others, but many/most have been atrocious.) I've always maintained that 1976, when PFS was the head writer and Bill Bell was the story consultant, was the show's best-written year.

I agree. While he's not the single worst soap opera scribe in history, his show only works at all when he has dialogue writers who can work wonders with the drivel they are given.

Yes, that period ended up being TGL's last hurrah. I don't think Bradley's contribution to the show has ever been highly praised by critics or fans.

Character-driven soaps, grounded in the realm of reality, are what I like best too. That's why the 1950s-1970s were the halcyon years of the genre for me (and why I find many radio soaps so satisfying). I understand the difficulty in severing decades-long emotional attachments. With several vets on ATWT and a few tattered remnants of the Bauer family remaining on TGL, I forced myself to monitor those soaps until the bitter end, even though I had not enjoyed them in a few decades before they were put out of their misery. I'm almost relieved that I don't have access to Emmerdale any more. I'd be tempted to watch, even it its current incarnation annoyed me, LOL. I was interested/pleased TPTB introduced a new blood Sugden into the mix, but was aghast when I heard they turned him into a killer. Idiots. Writing a could-be-important character into an irredeemable corner like that boggles the mind.

Being a longtime fan of Emmerdale, what would you say are its best stories during your tenure as a viewer? And when was the last year it was consistently good?

I never saw this story, although Susan Flannery always elevated any scene or plot in which she appeared. Her absence is a real loss for the show. That's a good point: occasionally, I see well-done scenes or moments here and there, but as a whole, so many modern soap storylines fall flat and peter out.

In my seven decades of soap watching, one refrain has remained constant among newer viewers: they wish they had been around to see legendary storylines that their friends and family have raved about; storylines that had aired before these newer audience members became acquainted with daytime dramas. I was lucky to have witnessed, first-hand, some of the best material the genre has offered throughout my lifetime. --Meta Bauer's murder trial, THE GUIDING LIGHT --The Alice/Steve/Rachel triangle, ANOTHER WORLD --The Mickey/Laura/Bill/Mike's paternity saga, DAYS OF OUR LIVES --The Jonah Lockwood/Keith Whitney reign of terror, THE EDGE OF NIGHT --Victoria Lord's murder trial/Karen Wolek's breakdown on the witness stand, ONE LIFE TO LIVE --Chris Brooks' rape, THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS --The Leslie/Brad/Lorie saga, THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS --The Liz/Dan/Susan/later Kim story, AS THE WORLD TURNS --The Julie/Doug/Addie tragedy, DAYS OF OUR LIVES --BJ's Heart, GENERAL HOSPITAL (IMHO, the last time daytime gave us a real masterpiece) I am curious, however, for people who are "newer" viewers, who began watching in the 1980s, 1900s, 2000s, what do you consider the best of the best; the most riveting material soaps have offered? What are the masterpiece moments you have personally seen?

This is interesting. I live in Canada and get Crave. I wonder if the BH 90210 episodes will be the original, uncut versions with all the music intact. I doubt it, but I'll probably check it out.

This may be an unpopular opinion, but Ellen Dolan was my least-favorite Margo on ATWT. I found her cold and brittle, and could never warm up to her. That being said, even I would admit she was a better recast than some of the actors chosen as NuConnor, nuPaul, NuDusty, NuMeg, NuCraig, etc. Bringing this back to Y&R, I'll always consider PB as NuJack. Victoria Mallory was a beautiful woman with the voice of an angel, but her version of Leslie Brooks lacked the deep, emotional core that Janice Lynde had displayed in the role. Lynn Topping and David Hasselhoff ended up being perfectly adequate as Chris Brooks and Snapper Foster, but original actors Trish Stewart and William Gray Espy exuded magnetic star appeal in those parts, and couldn't be successfully replaced IMO. Forget Wings Hauser as NuGreg, Patricia Everly as NuPeggy and Dennis Cole as NuLance too.😬

Yes, I figured you were joking. I've seen your posts enough to know that you are far too erudite to advocate for RH playing a descendent of the show's original founding family. My response was tongue-in-cheek flippancy. (To be fair, however, even the thought of Howarth joining the already-decimated show does make me cringe.) I watched ATWT for its last 47 years, and the dreadful miscasting in its final stretch was a nightmare. Scott Holroyd was gold to RH's cheese.

Oh dear God in heaven...noooooooooooooooo!🤮 We need an attractive, charismatic and likeable actor in such an important role (important in the sense that it would open the door for the Brooks family's renewed presence in Genoa City). After the painful debacle of Howarth as Paul Ryan on ATWT (Scott Holroyd had been perfect in the role), the thought of RH representing the Brooks family makes me nauseous. JMHO.

Gloria Monty and Paul Rauch! When paired with writers who understood soaps and the audience (like Douglas Marland and Pat Falken Smith) Gloria could be a fine producer. The technical aspects of her GH were good. But in less-competent writing hands, Monty proved that she just did not "get" the heart and soul of soaps, and ended up reaping great damage onto the medium. He was a destructive force as well.

Exactly. Gloria Monty and the crap she foisted onto daytime (romanticized rapists, serial-killing heartthrobs, science fiction idiocy) precipitated the destruction of the soap genre. Alas, most of the eps from the 1960s and 1970s are lost forever, but at least we do have some surviving gems on video and audio. Beggars can't be choosers. I'm so glad I kept the 10th anniversary of AW and eventually sent it to Eddie Drueding of the AW Home Page. Since he uploaded it there, it's been available to everyone and safe from tape deterioration! Hear, hear! The stuff Monty introduced to GH in the early 1980s temporarily ignited a flurry of attention among young viewers, but their interest didn't prove to be long-lasting, and the gimmicks like freezing the world, extra terrestrials, etc., turned off dedicated and life-long members of the audience.

Oh yes, the 15-minute episodes of TGL and SFT that we are fortunate to have access to were wonderful examples of soap opera storytelling! My only "beef" about the short format was that 15 minutes seemed to go by in the blink of an eye, leaving me wanting more. Nowadays, I realize that wanting to see more is infinitely better than becoming impatient with extraneous scenes, filler dialogue, and uninteresting newbies, and hoping for the episodes to hurry up and end already. A few writers like Douglas Marland, Pat Falken Smith, William J. Bell (after a rough start when Y&R transitioned to an hour), Claire Labine (at GH), Nancy Curlee (at TGL), etc., rose to the challenge of keeping their 60-minute shows successful, but who knows if the quality would have lasted long-term? More writers of the hour-long soap format haven't been up to the task (IMHO) than those who have succeeded. Burn-out happens to even the best of scribes. I'll generally stick with a favorite show, at least for a while, through weaker periods, but only if the core characters whom I care about remain front and center. If the writing deteriorates AND much of the core cast is gutted (AW in 1975, TGL in 1983/84, Y&R when it went to an hour, etc.), my loyalty and interest dissipate. I remember one excruciating scene on the expanded AW in which characters were discussing ordering chairs or something for a warehouse. It felt like it went on forever. UGH. No, thank you. I'd rather watch paint dry.

@chrisml, that was really interesting! Thanks for sharing!

Yes, in retrospect, expanding soaps to an hour a day was a destructive idea. It's a grinding, exhausting schedule that works against TPTB putting out the best-possible product on a long-term basis. There are only so many work hours in a day; only so much you can wring out of a cast and crew. To be fair, many soaps managed to succeed beautifully in the 60-minute format for a while, but it never seemed to endure. I do think the 15-minute ones extending to 30 minutes a day ended up working well. To me, this was the ideal length. (And, of course, 90 minutes per day of AW was a foolish idea from the get-go.) As much as critics have are quick to deride the daytime soaps, I've always found them superior to the primetime ones. AW did give Susan Sullivan better scripts to work with than Falcon Crest! And Lenore Delany didn't die a horrific, fan-alienating death , the way Maggie Gioberti did. What sick, tone-deaf PTB thought that was a good idea to do to the audience?

I watched the show (or audio-taped episodes of it when I couldn't be home) up until 1975. I thought the first few years were uneven, but then AW really took off in late 1965 when Agnes Nixon came aboard as headwriter. After she left at the end of 1968 or early 1969, I felt her replacement Robert Cenedella's material (he wrote from 1969 to 1971) became a little too plot heavy and not character-driven enough for me, although it was still watchable. Then Harding Lemay took over in 1971 and his forte was character delineation and interpersonal relationships, so I enjoyed his initial work thoroughly. I believe Nixon and Lemay were the very best writers in AW's history. A lot has been said and written about the contentious backstage goings-on behind the scenes in the mid 1970s. After the show went to an hour in 1975, I personally felt there was too much repetitious dialogue and "filler material," and a noticeable lessening in quality, but I continued to tune in, figuring that TPTB were just working out the logistics of filming an hour-long episode five days a week. Then we lost four major stars before the end of the year, and the focus and the tone of the show shifted too much for my liking. I would happily join you for a marathon watch party of episodes from the debut to the end of 1975, however! (To be fair, while I was disappointed in what I considered a drop in AW's quality in 1975, I guarantee that the show was still miles better than anything soaps have to offer today!)

Actually, it's curious, but I have never heard fans reminisce about this particular scene either. I've also never heard anyone talk about the memorable scene in which Jim Matthews told Mary that Rachel's baby was Steve Frame's and not Russ'. The normally staid matriarch of the Matthews family went berserk and shrieked, "I hate her! I HATE HER!" It made my blood run cold. As you say, probably most fans are too young to have seen the golden moments of the 1960s and '70s play out. I may be wrong, but I don't believe scripts from that era are on-line.