vetsoapfan

Do you reeeeeeeeeeally want me to tell you, LOL?😬🫢🙃 In my honest and brutal opinion, it died in 1982 after Pat Falken Smith was fired, and its remains began being cannibalized with the advent of JER. Some of what has been presented to the audience since then has been inexplicably sick and sadistic, and huge portions of the once-mature and erudite, sophisticated soap have just been embarrassingly, painfully STOOPID. (This is me being restrained in my commentary, ROTL.)🤣

Yes, eventually, TPTB at PP would discard various newbies while keeping a lot of the original players around. Parkins' point was that during the periods when extraneous characters were hogging up air time, fans were unhappy. I agree that if the show wanted to enlarge the cast so much, going to five nights a week would probably have made the expansion more palpable to the audience who disliked seeing their original favorites on the sidelines. Never resolving the missing-Allison situation was troublesome enough, but firing Dorothy Malone was a major blunder, IMHO. Barbara Rush and Elizabeth Walker just did not exude the "je ne sais quoi" that Malone and Farrow had, and Marsha and Carolyn Russell were just not that interesting.

Barbara Parkins said as much in an interview once, that the show kept sidelining the core characters in favor of (ultimately) irrelevant newbies who would take attention away from the core...and then get written out and replaced, themselves, by even more irrelevant and temporary side characters. She theorized that the show might not have begun to falter if TPTB had made an effort to concentrate more ofnthe vets, in whom the audience had an emotional investment. Yes, the sudden push towards social relevance ended up being jarring, and clashed with the show's original romanticized, almost lyrical tone.

Bwahahahahahahahaha!🤣

Alas, most people's hotness quotient fades with time.🥺 That is the perfect way to describe her. What a dish, with real star appeal. I loathed the Schusters. Particularly Doris. I wanted her killed off from day one. I agree. At least TPTB realized the gold they had in the cast, and elevated several of the younger players to full leads. I can't help it; I'm just honest to a fault.🤷‍♂️😁 Personally, I found Halloween II to be a major failure after the excellent original film. To me, the only good films in the franchise were Halloween and Halloween H20 I've never like anything Guza penned. Miller was at TGL from 1986-87 and 1995-97, IMHO two of the show's weakest periods. I don't know about you guys, but personally, if I am going to daydream about anyone in water, I'll stick with cutie Chris Evans. But that's just me.🙃

That comment could be interpreted in some interesting ways. Just sayin'.🫢

Shoop showed more depth and versatility as Allison in RTPP than she ever did in the awful films she made. It was probably the material that made her (and most of her co-stars) look bad in those productions, but IMHO she was likeable on RTPP. Lola Albright was a lovely woman and would have fit right on another soap if given a role of her own. I just found Dorothy Malone too likeable and charismatic to be replaced permanently. (She was also va-va-va-VOOM gorgeous.) Ohh, be careful, don't jinx yourself! Never turn down a potential life-saving organ!😬 Like almost all soaps (Y&R being one major exception in my mind), PP had growing pains in the beginning. Some of the most intriguing characters were originally in the position of supporting players, while some other denizens of Peyton Place, whom I felt didn't "jell" well, got screen time which I really wanted to go elsewhere. One couple, in particular, bored me to the point of grating on my nerves. Still, TPTB worked out the kinks, and the show always boasted fine acting, nice sets, good direction and interesting camera work. And it treated us to Dorothy Malone's awesome hair, LOL.🤣 I was instantly mesmerized by her intricate hairdo and marveled at how anyone could get her hair to hold in that style. (Mia Farrow, much later, said it was a wig.) I thought I was such a weirdo for fixating on this woman's head, until I asked a friend if he had seen PP yet . He instantly exclaimed, "Of course! I had to watch that hair on Constance McKenzie!" (I suppose this only means that both my friend and I were nuts.)🤷‍♂️

Right. We were used to Nola's skewered version of events. Speaking of that, while I adored Dorothy Malone, I thought Lola Albright did a fine job as a temporary recast. I agree. We expected a bunch of new faces before the show even premiered. Viewers who didn't want to accept that, just wouldn't even watch in the first place.

When even TPTB were in on the joke, winking at the audience (no one in the world would use such a line, ever, LOL), it was hard to be mad at the show for a moment of harmless silliness.

I'm glad you are enjoying this thread as much as I am. Ben Andrews, who played the Tate twins was sexy as hell. Benny Tate (the "good" twin) had a terminal illness and died tragically after marrying Allison McKenzie, and then Jason (the "bad" one) hooked poor Allison on drugs. The show's writing was tepid during the first several months, but then it picked up dramatically and the ratings began to rise with it. I had wanted Mike and Constance to get together in the original primetime series (they had great chemistry), and I was interested to see them finally consummate their feelings on daytime. The actor who played Elliot on RTPP was too stodgy for me. Kathy Glass sued the network because her dyed-blonde hair began falling out in clumps. Susan Brown had similar agony because of the dying process on her hair. I preferred Glass in the role of Allison, but Susan Shoop ended up being fine. Yes, the Nola/Vanessa catfight was played for laughs on purpose and therefore did not come across as contrived and forced as many of the more "serious" soap battles of the day.

That "reunion" catfight was contrived, forced, unrealistic and STOOPID.

Believe me, people were vehement about getting answers way back then, too.🙃

I have a gut feeling that the audience of the primetime version would have rebelled at seeing a recast Allison, since Mia Farrow owned that role so well. Still, the daytime soap had two different actresses portray the part, and I was okay with them both. Maybe because most of the cast was made up of replacement actors. I don't know how I would have reacted to a "fake" Allison playing opposite Dorothy Malone.

I'd say it started to peter out at the very end, and certain cast changes damaged the tone, but particularly in its early years, it was lushly done (great direction and camera work) and very absorbing. It certainly had fans talking for a long time, and there was a lot of interest in finding out what had happened to her. I think it was a mistake to drop Connie and Elliot from the show without any resolution to their daughter's story, however. Or they had popular characters just cease to appear or even exist all of a sudden, often for years on end (Tommy Horton, Carl Williams, Ellen Stewart...). The lack of explanation or closure always vexes me.

It was such a bizarre way to write her out. She just wandered around town for a while and then headed up a long road and disappeared from Peyton Place forever. People theorized to me, upon watching her final episode, that perhaps Allison had had some sort of break with reality and was in a fugue state. I'd point out the lack of build-up to such a scenario, but the character did seem "off" in her final moments. It was quite haunting, and the original series' never providing any definitive answers or closure left everyone I know frustrated. The daytime soap Return to Peyton Place, the 1977 TV movie Murder in Peyton Place, and the 1985 TV movie movie Peyton Place: The Next Generation all gave different resolutions to the Allison question. I'd say that The Next Generation's explanation was the best one that could have been done, considering the respect it gave to the character and the sweet flashbacks used.

ITA. The clear usage of body doubles in stunts was something we all noticed and usually kvetched about, but accepted as just par for the course. Monica Quartermaine fell down the stairs in the Q mansion once, on GH, and we could easily tell the stunt woman was wearing knee pads (they were HUGE, LOL). It was hilarious. Yes, and that cartoonish, drag-queen type catfight ended up permeating every soap. I didn't find it effective or character-driven most of the time; such fights generally looked contrived and tacky to me. NOW, that being said, in this scene from AW in 1973 (which starts around the 42:09 mark), I was hoping to see a real, knock-down-drag-out brawl, with both Alice and Aunt Liz opening up a fresh can of whup-a$$ on Rachel's sorry behind. That conflict had been five years in the making, and Rachel getting her comeuppance would have been well-motivated, deserved, and soooo satisfying. (This scene is one that actually made me scream, "You BITCH!!!" at the television, LOL). Also, in the 1970s on OLTL, Dorian Cramer (later Lord) had accidentally killed a patient, but Larry Wolek ended up being accused of the crime. Dorian was eventually outed as the culprit and her reputation in town was destroyed. She insanely held a grudge against Larry (!!!) for her downfall, and thirsted for vengeance for years. Cut to Viki's murder trial in 1979, when Karen Wolek broke down on the witness stand and confessed to having been a prostitute. A triumphant Dorian took this as her golden opportunity to finally get back at Larry, Karen's husband. With a member of the board in tow, Dorian marched over to the hospital and proceeded to change the locks on Larry's office door, in preparation to have him kicked out and removed from his position as chief of staff. Karen found her there and demanded to know what the hell Dorian was doing. Dorian crowed, "I am removing your husband from this hospital. He has been asking for it for a long, long time!" Karen silently lowered her head, like a bull setting its sights on its target, and replied in a deadly-calm voice, "So...have...YOU!" Then she pounced on Dorian and let her have it. The sounds of Dorian's shocked, "Oh! Oh! OHHHH!" were exhilarating! I started jumping up and down and cheering. It was great! OMG! Thank you so much for the kind words.😚 I'm humbled and blushing.🫠 You know whom to come to, if you ever need a kidney!

All the remaining soaps have a number of burned out and/or irrelevant characters who could easily be axed ASAP, but you are right: GH has a TON. It's baffling. I'd want to quickly discard a huge swath of them and refocus the show on true (present and past) legacy characters with roots in the show's DNA.

You are absolutely right. I had just rewatched the following clip on youtube, too, so I don't why I had a brain glitch and referred to the lily pond scene. Probably because that fight might be the most infamous. Anyway, yes, the studio battle was the one I should have said felt well earned I apologize for the "senior moment."

It's interesting that up to 80% of true crime viewers are said to be women. It's...curious that up to half of the audience watching gay porn is also said to be straight women, LOL.🤔🫢

Yes, the show later became known for the super-couple and Reilly material, but whether that was to DAYS' credit or to its detriment is open to debate. The once intelligent, sophisticated and adult soap was vastly altered to the point of being unrecognizable. Depending on how the super-couple material was handled, I could deal with it to an extent, but I loathed the Reilly era with every fiber of my being. It's what finally me turn away from DAYS in disgust. I think giving the unsung heroes of daytime the recognition and credit they deserve is long overdue. I'll add Nancy Curlee to this list, although at least she has been acknowledge before, more than the likes of Lakin and Edelstein.

I think by then, many soaps just threw anything and everything at the wall to see what stuck. All it made was a god-awful mess.

I also thought Rita Lakin and (particularly) Rick Edelstein wrote their soaps quite well, and they are not spoken about a lot, either. While the hacks always stand out in our minds, we've had many unheralded, quality scribes in daytime TV as well. Even if no soap has been well written in many years, viewers were spoiled way back when!

To be fair, there are some catfights that are logical and justifiable, based on established history and characterization. Those are few and far between, however. The majority of them are artificially contrived and forced, thrown into shows gratuitously to get attention. That's why they have become redundant and boring, if not outright childish and stupid. I would say that the first catfight between Krystle and Alexis (in the lily pond) was earned. The endless follow-ups, not so much. I remember that! Unfortunately, although Soapdish was a comedy/parody, daytime TV really has foisted some heinously absurd plots on us. That was one time a soap made it work. Under Gordon Russell, Sam Hall and Don Wallace, OLTL's grasp on characters and its ability to write natural dialogue pulled it off. People spoke the way...people speak, and behaved realistically and well in character. Fans don't often list that writing team among the greats like Phillips, Nixon, Bell, Lemay, Slesar, etc., but those scribes were experts at their craft.

Good point: the back-from-the-dead plots are bad enough when the characters in question have only been presumed dead, but these stories are significantly worse (more idiotic and damaging) when the characters have literally died, for real, in front of our eyes, and then been brought back to life through impossible hocus pocus trickery.

I could have written this entire post, line by line, myself. You have encapsulated my thoughts perfectly. Bravo. I agree the last year DAYS was written well was 1982 under Pat Falken Smith. Did you ever read the interview with Joseph Mascolo, who bluntly said, "When Pat Falken Smith left the show, she took the quality of the writing with her"...? Subsequent writers really turned Mascolo's character into a cartoon villain, an unrealistic buffoon. Others can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Julie Williams is the only legacy character who has never been presumed dead.