vetsoapfan

Do you think any of the current soaps have scribes talented enough to write truly complex, three-dimensional characters? I think some actors can and do being nuances to their roles, but for the most part, the writing does not support them.

Thanks for the information. This had been nagging at me for years. Although I was watching well before 1968, I could not for the life if me remember everyone (or even anyone) moving from Selby Flats, Los Angeles to Springfield. I kept thinking, "How many episodes could I have possibly missed?" LOL. So the answer to the mystery is simple: TPTB just made the arbitrary decision to change locations without explanation. The rational eludes me. It's like Bay City, Michigan morphing into Bay City, Illinois with neither explanation nor reason. P&G's dropping the article "the" from The Guiding Light and The Edge of Night was another head-scratching move. God only knows what goes on in the minds of executives. Do they impose any mandates onto the shows just to justify their salaries?

Everyone's opinions are always wanted and appreciated; no requests are needed!🙃 The best thing about all these characters was that they were multi-faceted and layered. Drama is always more absorbing when we see conflicting dimensions to both the protagonists and the antagonists. Cardboard, cartoon villains quickly outstay their welcome. These ladies never did.

Oooh, what a thought-provoking question! The only good thing about being so old, LOL, is that I saw of all these fascinating women in their heyday. Lisa Miller really was the trailblazer. She was selfish, amoral and an unstoppable force in the beginning. She manipulated the Hughes family into giving her and Bob Grandpa 's bedroom because it was bigger, and because they supposedly needed it more. Kindly Grandpa didn't put up a fuss, but it infuriated the audience. Unsatisfied with Bob and bored by menial tasks like housework, Lisa hired a cleaning woman to deep-clean the house, then gallivanted off with her extramarital affair partner to cheat on Bob all day. Later, Nancy returned home, looked around at how spotless everything was, and exclaimed, "Why Lisa! How wonderful you are!" Lisa just preened and basked in the praise. I think that is when viewers truly started to loooooathe her. Rachel Davis and Erica Kane shared many traits in common, which is no surprise since Agnes Nixon freely acknowledged patterning Rachel after Erica, whom Nixon had conceived years earlier. The best thing about these women is that, while they were deeply flawed and destructive (as much to themselves to as those around them), they were both driven by pain; a feeling of rejection and abandonment by their fathers. Their thirst for money, position, and a better life was borne from a desperate need for validation and social acceptance. They drove us crazy,, but we couldn't help but pity them, too, because they were such suffering antagonists. At the beginning of Y&R, Jill Foster was actually seen as a hard-working, altruistic, decent young girl who stood by her family and was devoted to her single mother, even though we knew how sad and unfulfilled by life she was. She had dreams of a better existence, like so many people mired in poverty do, but she still had a sense of right and wrong. One day, a prostitute named Gwen Sherman came into the beauty salon where Jill worked. Upon hearing Jill long for the better things in life, Gwen assured her there were ways to make money quickly. She took Jill to the outskirts of Genoa City, to the bordello where Gwen worked, and let Jill look around. While we could tell that Jill was intrigued and tempted by the money potential, she ultimately realized she couldn't go through with it. Her morals wouldn't allow it. Sadly, as she was leaving, who should show up at the front door but Snapper, who was there with a buddy to partake in a night of sexual debauchery. Showing how much of a hypocrite he was, Snapper instantly erupted in disgust and fury at Jill, and smacked her hard across the face. As far as I know, she never went back to the cathouse. But continued hardship (and abuse by Katherine Chancellor) eventually wore away at Jill's soul and her dedication to morality started to fracture. We then saw what she became later in life. The best thing about Brooke Logan was her relationship with Stephanie, IMHO. They were Yings to each other's Yangs. Brooke reminded me of Jill Foster and how Jill evolved, but watching the years-long interplay between Stephanie and Brooke really gave B&B a strong foundation at its core. I don't think the show has ever fully rebounded from the loss of Stephanie Forrester. She was a force of nature! I'd put all these women in the "love to hate" category. There were characters who made you mad, made you swear at the TV, but most importantly made you WATCH. We couldn't look away because their antics were so absorbing. It's all relative of course, but I would rank my personal favorites as: 1. Rachel Davis 2. Lisa Miller 3. Jill Foster 4. Erica Kane 5. Brooke Logan

I tend to agree, because mainly TPTB try to manipulate the audience into seeing the producers' and writers' own designated couples as the ones we are supposed to root for (whether the actors actually have chemistry or not). Viewers will only see romantic pairings as "super couples" worthy of being "endgame" if their charisma and chemistry ignites our imagination and devotion. Jacquie Courtney and George Reinholt sizzled together on screen. Their "je ne sais quoi" appeal was tangible and magnetic. Yet, the triangle was made even more memorable by the layers and facets the writers instilled in Rachel. Her behavior and actions were heinous, but she was so broken and miserable, we could see her pain. Multi-dimensional villains are much more interesting than the flat, cartoonish ones so often seen in the modern-day soaps. Give me a Rachel Davis over a Stefano DiMera any day.

I always had a soft spot for Cathy Greene, the original actress who played Sally as a young child. Of the adult performers, I think MPK had the most charisma and likeability factor.

Gary Tomlin, the writer at the time of JC's return in 1984, later admitted that he had not studied the history of the character, and therefore didn't really know what to do with her. I was dumfounded. I suppose I appreciated Tomlin's being honest and taking the blame for the fiasco, but what sort of careless incompetence leads to not DOING YOUR JOB and researching your own show? If Susan Lucci returned to AMC after an extended break, and TPTB did nothing with her except have her be a talk-to for Bianca, would that be an acceptable excuse? ("Oh, we didn't know much about Erica and what she meant to the audience, so we basically ignored her...then we dumped her because she wasn't making the ratings soar.")🙄

Right, LOL. But folks who are determined to feel important and "in the know" hate to admit their assertions could be mistaken.

Exactly. 👍 When the "Facebook guy" kept insisting that he "knew for a fact" DAYS does not have any archival material saved, I pointed out it's fairly well known Sony/Corday is one of the few entities that DOES preserve past episodes. In fact, if nothing else, the huge number of ancient flashbacks DAYS trots out on special occasions, from all eras of the show, confirms the existence of the archives. But he said that those flashbacks are either newly "recreated," or else the studio tagged a few scenes here or there over the years to use later, and wiped everything else. This is nonsensical. No show could or would predict, in 1970, that scene 54321A needed to be saved in order to use as a flashback in 2022.🙄 Right. The vast majority of reports that have covered this subject over the years contend that all soaps started saving their episodes in the late 1970s/early 1980s, even the ones that had wiped everything previously. Getting those episodes digitized and ready for streaming would just take time and work.

ATWT was not one for doing a lot of action-oriented stories and scenes back then; it was a very slow-moving, character-driven drama. The tornado scenes were memorable, because they were more like something The Edge of Night would do. TEON used to do tons of action stuff back then. Although physically totally different than Hays, McCormack was a pretty good temporary Kim. I'll just always think of her as The Bad Seed, in the famous film of the same name.

Did you see the later episode, when Patty McCormack was subbing for Kathryn Hays, and the show reshot the tornado footage to use in a flashback? That was a real head-scratcher to me. I didn't see the point of going to the trouble.

Unfortunately, many beloved returnees were not served well on their soaps. To me, the biggest waste of talent (and a major failure on the part of TPTB on AW) was their shockingly-incompetent handing of Jacquie Courtney's (Alice Frame) return in 1984.

I haven't thought much about this show in years, and I found the final few seasons a chore to endure, but I enjoyed the first seasons and the finale, written by Kevin Williamson. Thanks for alerting us to this. I never would have thought to look for it, but now that I know it exists, I'm going to watch it.

I have a sneaking suspicion that The Orange One is actually a Dingle. It would explain sooooo much.

Fortunately for me, P&G produced many of my favorite soaps, so any classic material of theirs available on Youtube is a blessing. And knowing that DAYS and Y&R (and DS, TD and R'sH) have most of their archives intact is a miracle. Thanks. I think for folks who are well-versed in soap history, all the reports about what material has survived and what has not is known.

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Isn't is curious how certain soap material remains uploaded on Youtube for years, while other clips and episodes disappear almost instantly? I think some networks and owners care a lot more about copyright than others do, even if they allow their programming to remain unseen in mothballs for years.😡

I'm sorry that having an unconfirmed source on Facebook questioned vexes you. As Mulder and Scully are wont to say, the truth is out there. If you don't want to spend a moment doing any research yourself, no one else is going to convince you.🤷‍♂️

It would be interesting if they responded to complaints about their set-up and exorbitant prices, but I doubt their response would be substantive or satisfying; just PR bull$hit. Let us know!

I've never heard of VideoLand, but by the way you describe it, their business model sounds like the perfect way to stream a vintage soap. And I'm not shelling of $815.43 CAD, either!

IMHO, the fall of 1995 to the end of 1997 are worth watching (then Megan McTavish takes over as head writer), but I agree with you: this is way too expensive, and the inconvenient payment method will put off a lot of potential viewers. 500.00 euros converts to $815.43 a year in Canadian funds, or $67.92 CAD per month. BEONDTV+ is setting severe obstacles up, which make me believe this venture's success will be a long shot.

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Yes.

That's how I remember it. I don't know where some "soap history" encyclopedia books culled the information that Samantha remained in Port Charles for several more years. Probably one author made the original blunder, and then others just copied it verbatim.

While reports vary widely (and contradict each other) on what years of what soaps survive, I wish BEONDTV+ would start a lot earlier than 1995. If we were to lucky to start in 1980, we'd be treated to the writing talents of Agnes Nixon, Wisner Washam and Lorraine Broderick for most of that decade. Lorraine Broderick is head writer from 1995 to 1997, but then Megan McTavish has a weak (second) reign from 1997-99. We get a welcome reprieve with Nixon at the helm from 1999-2001, but then we plunge into Jean Passanante hell. McTavish returns again (!!!) and stays for four years this time. Then the dread Charles Pratt descends upon Pine Valley in 2008 and really screws up the show (he was probably AMC's worst scribe in history). If the streaming began with material from 1980, we would have many years of soap goodness to enjoy; many more than what we got in the late 1990s.