vetsoapfan

SFT was an excellent soap for many, many years. Gems like this remind me of that fact.

Much obliged, @te. Thank you.

I loathe no-life, pointlessly-vindictive hackers who destroy people's hard work and ruin the internet for everyone. My proposed punishment for them would be swift and severe.

It was just so weird, so out-of-character, and made Alice look idiotic. Having Rachel mentor Sally would have been a realistic and effective way to keep the flames of conflict alight. Yes, there were times when Marlowe stumbled his way through scenes, either fumbling his lines or forgetting them all together. When it was extensive and noticeable, it was painful to watch. Little glitches like in this scene were no big deal to me. Issues with dialogue aside, I did find the actor to be warm and generally likeable, although my favorite Jim Matthews was Sheppard Strudwick. I wonder if that was Mulcahey's influence.

After Courtney left, Alice behaved like she was intellectually limited, IMHO. She had already been very wary of Willis, and then to suddenly fall in love with him? Marrying Ray Gordon whom she had not known for very long? Going after her cousin's ex? None of this was in character, and came off as a puppet being pushed around from story point to story point, to fit into absurd plots. I cringed to see Alice showing up at Ada's back door, meeting Rachel in the kitchen, and then sitting down to have soup with her. WTF? These women hated each other. Why would Alice cheerfully agree to eat with her? GMAFB.😑 I was surprised Harney was listed so close to the top of the cast crawl. Victoria Wyndham was then first, of course. I can't recall right now if Harney was the second or the third highest-ranked actress (perhaps Beverly Penberthy was above her), but she should have been further down the list, behind other vets. The negative reaction to Harney, voiced by viewers in fan magazines, was widespread. I'm sure there were members of the audience who accepted her, and for the reasons you specified, but a vocal legion of fans did not. Even Harding Lemay admitted that despite continued focus on the character, Alice never again enjoyed the popularity she had attained with Courtney in the part. Lemay even acknowledged that JC's presence on OLTL may have contributed to that series' steady climb in the ratings. A few months after the cast massacre, the entire story was reported upon, in depth, in the daytime press. Jacquie Courtney wrote an article, herself, explaining her side of the story. Again, readers of the magazines were enraged. This is a lovely scene; the type that soaps used to do so well, but which we rarely see any more. It feels like we were watching a quiet moment play out with real family members. Jacquie Courtney was radiant. Her subtle performance added depth to the scene. And while Hugh Marlowe stumbled a bit with his dialogue, I didn't mind. In real life, most of us get tongue-tied from time to time. What a treat Ariana Muenker's clips are!

Being quite familiar in the realm of soaps, and how these things work out, I could see the plot coming from a mile away. I just knew Rachel would end up having Steve's baby.🙃 The scene in which Jim tells the truth about the baby to Mary is still seared in my memory. Loving, maternal Mary flew into an uncharacteristic rage and shrieked, "I...HATE...HER! I hate her!" We were used to Audra Lindley's Liz screaming at everybody, but not Mary Matthews. It was chilling to see her go berserk (chilling, but understandable) .

Catching up on this thread, I was thinking of posting all of these exact same sentiments, but you did it for me. You've saved me a lot of wear and tear on my typing fingers. All this to say: I agree with everything you wrote in this post.👍

Awww, @slick jones is kind enough to tag me in this post because he is, no doubt, offering up Luca Calvani to me on a silver platter.😝 Gracias, Slick!

Awww, shucks. As an original cast member, beloved by the fans, Jacqueline Courtney was an important cornerstone of Bay City at the time. The day I dropped the show for good, as a daily viewer, was the day I saw Susan Harney in the role of Alice. It hadn't helped matters that I found David Bailey so stodgy and one dimensional as Russ, and that Virginia Dwyer and George Reinholt had also gotten the axe. I was hanging in for Courtney, and when she was dismissed, my patience with the show evaporated. (It takes A LOT for me to drop a favorite soap. I continued with ATWT and TGL to the bitter end, primarily because of a few veteran characters/actors whom I cared for.) TIIC at most soaps have made this same blunder for decades, and they never learn. P&G continued the idiocy by decimating several vets Hughes from ATWT and the Bauers from TGL in the early 1980s, moves which seriously damaged those series. Right. Recognizable human drama is relevant at any time, through any decade. This reminds me: at one point, someone asked Jamie how he and Sally were related, since his father was planning to adopt Sally too, and Sally had ended up as a Frame. Jamie replied, "She's like a cousin or something." That line has always stuck with me, because...it was stupid, LOL. If anything, Sally could be called his stepsister, through her adoption by Jamie's stepmother. (But since Steven died, even that description is "iffy"). THIS! As long as viewers are emotionally attached to the characters, they will persevere with a soap for a long, long time. If all their best-loved characters are written out, however, and the shows are poorly written and produced, viewers drift away. AW, ATWT and TGL (among others) lasted much longer than their substandard quality deserved, and I believe die-hard viewer loyalty helped them...until it just wasn't enough anymore.

@DRW50 You wrote a fine piece here. For those of us who had watched and loved AW from the beginning, eliminating the Matthews family was like choosing to get rid of the Waltons from...well, from The Waltons. It took the heart out of the show, and after they were gone and the writing continued to get worse, many veteran viewers simply felt that AW wasn't AW any more.

Antipathy towards a certain host does end up bringing the viewing community together, however.😁 That is a fact, and can engender various sentiments.🤨

"It's nice to see her responding to fans and to see memories of people who were watching back then. I can imagine cost saving was a factor, especially given the quality of some of the recasts (Alice, for one)."--@DRW50 God, yes. I think Wesley Pfenning was the most bizarrely-miscast Alice, and Vanna Tribbey was the blandest, but Susan Harney's version of the character just didn't have the depth, vulnerability or warmth that Alice needed. She also couldn't cry convincingly to save her life (but I guess I am quibbling now, LOL). George Reinholt once acknowledged that he was earning 70 thousand dollars a year on the new, hour-long AW in 1975. I imagine Jacquie Courtney had a similar salary. I wonder what P&G offered Susan Harney as JC's replacement.🤔

Alan makes my teeth ache, LOL.

I couldn't deal with it. The entire scenario was just so far removed from the ATWT that I had grown up with; such a drastic shift in style, tone and presentation made the show feel alien to me. That era, to me, started the erosion of the show. https://henryjenkins.org/2013/04/as-the-world-stopped-turning-lynn-liccardo-talks-about-soap-operas-part-one.html?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1scP4YRmhJe4AhP_pY4w2d4aajFpquIW3XwRAY0qAmL6EROeqKTHlbwZE_aem_rlFB18R38LxZzf2v22mrxA

LOL, personally, I loathed both of those characters, so having them featured so much did not endear the show runners to me at all.

Yes, if Y&R had not been having trouble, it might have had stronger ratings. My point is, however, that GH was a cultural phenomenon at the time, garnering endless publicity, buzz and huge ratings. Unlike Y&R, TGL was in DIRECT COMPETITION with this daytime powerhouse, and still held its own. Maybe as GH's direct time-slot competitor, Y&R would have done much worse, considering it was weaker than TGL then. Even under such challenging circumstances, pre-Kobe's TGL was still strong. After her diddling, not so much. Soap fans are a hardy bunch, and hang on for a long time, but there comes a point when they've finally had enough. After years of dreck on screen, I think viewers had just become disenchanted with the show, expecting it never to become "the real" TGL again. Ironically, they turned away from it just when its short-lived rejuvenation was underway. I've seen that happen so many times to so many shows. They make marked improvements after years of being in the toilet, but viewers are so fed up and burned out by then, they don't come back.

In the long run, TGL was significantly more crippled than helped by Gail Kobe. Pamela Long eventually developed into a decent scribe, but her early years were a mixed bag at best, with a lot of weaknesses interspersed with some successes. When left alone at the helm, Jeff Ryder's deficit as a writer was painfully apparent. When GH lost Luke and Laura and sunk into sci-fi hell, sure, alienated viewers took a look-see at TGL. This produced a temporary, artificial bump in the ratings. But it did not last. The steady downward spiral in numbers experienced by TGL throughout the rest of the 1980s confirms that it was just not producing the kind of material its former audience wanted to see. When GH was a stellar soap and a rating's powerhouse at the beginning of the decade, TGL was pulling in an impressive 8.2. By 1989, even with GH in poor condition, it was much better rated than TGL, with its measly 5.4. Despite Kobe's and Long's assertions and bragging, our show was healthier before they tampered with it.

Gotta love John Beradino!

@DRW50, I always love seeing footage of Ellen and David Stewart, but this what not the best era of the show. Miranda was a dud. Everything with Mr. Big was an insult. Thank God ATWT was able to rebound from the mess Mary Ellis Bunim wrought.

Thanks, @slick jones. I remember Hobbs from various things, but mainly for his appearances on the stellar television drama I'LL FLY AWAY. I've always wonder why that fine series has never been commercially released. I've never seen it released in syndication, either, at least in Canada. Pity.

While Bailey was perfectly adequate, he never managed to bring any range to Russ, as opposed to Sam Groom whose performances were varied and nuanced. Bailey felt to me like he should have been cast as a generic, stolid lawyer on a Quinn Martin production. (Yikes, I'm aging myself there!) Firing cornerstone actress Jacqueline Courtney was a massive blunder. While some of her replacements were less bad than others, Alice just wasn't a draw anymore. While Victoria Wyndham eventually became accepted as Rachel, Robin Strasser's original replacement, Margaret Impert, was a flop. Major actors should not be replaced unless there is no other choice. With JC, the show had had a choice and made the wrong one. Richard Bekins is a good example of a replacement who worked out very well. Judith Light on OLTL took over the role of Karen and brought it to new heights. But IMHO, more often than not, viewers tend to prefer the original actors whom they know. I called Peter Simon "the fake Ed" for a solid 27 years, LOL! Soaps have always made the inexplicable decision to kill off beloved characters by choice. I don't like it, but at least Lee Randolph never had to endure being turned into a clone, a ghost, a time traveller or a San Cristocrapian queen. She can rest in peace!

Marie Horton, Lorie Brooks and Heather Lawrence (Somerset) had no idea they were falling in love with their brothers, so there was less of a toxic component to those relationships, particularly since they ended as soon as the truth was revealed. If Susan Matthews had loved Bill "too much" when she knew very well they were siblings, the ick factor would have been significant. In the 1970s, I found David Bailey to be bland after enjoying Sam Groom as Russ. I found Susan Harney to be shrill and unable to carry heavy emotional scenes effectively; a big comedown after JC. IMHO, Brian Murray was pompous as the new Dan Shearer, and Lynn Milgram was just...a little creepy as Susan. Aside from Irene Dailey as Aunt Liz and Beverly Penberthy as Pat, the Matthewses were not flourishing in my eyes.

IIRC, The Somerset Register was a fan site launched and written by the same gentleman who gave us The Edge of Night Home Page. (If I'm misremembering, someone please let me know.) Back in the day, I kept extensive scrapbooks on Another World, Somerset, Days of Our Lives, The Young and the Restless, The Guiding Light, Dark Shadows, and How to Survive a Marriage, with newspaper and magazine articles and interviews, storyline synopses, photos, critiques, etc. Everything on TEON and SOM websites correlated with the published information which I had collected in my scrapbooks. The sites were well-researched and highly informative. If the info about Bill Matthews and SOM was posted on the Somerset Register webpage, I'd bet it was accurate. Speaking of soap sites, Jason's DAYS page and The Another World Homepage are extraordinary achievements with mountains of historical data.

I know that Harding Lemay had flirted covertly with Iris having repressed incestuous feelings for her "daddy," and because they were his own creations, I couldn't quibble. That being said, even covert feelings of incest being hinted at within the Matthews family would have made longtime viewers' heads explode! Like, ewww.🤢

Although I was no longer watching and recording AW every single day in 1978-79 (I had become disenchanted with the show after the cast purge of 1975), I did tune in from time to time. I remember the speculation about Bill Matthews potentially being alive, that nothing ever came of it, and that the entire business just faded into oblivion. One curious scene I recall vividly had Susan Matthews out at Alice's house in the country. Alice cheerfully suggested that as an outing, they could go boating on the lake. Susan visibly flinched and looked away, distressed. When asked what was wrong, she quietly reminded Alice that her brother Bill had died in a boating accident, which resulted in her being resistant to engaging in that sort of activity ever since. She spoke about how much Bill's death had affected her, because loved him very deeply. Then, almost in a reverie, she murmured, "Sometimes I think I loved him...too much." Um...what the heck was THAT supposed to mean? The show never elaborated on what Susan was implying, and she never said anything like that again (as far as I saw/heard), but I wondered what kind of can of worms Harding Lemay might have been toying with there.