FrenchBug82

I am going to share what is probably going to be an unpopular opinion but while I don't question the John/Marlena chemistry and the fact they are the end game, I found DH was considerably more interesting when playing John/Gina, John/Kristen and John/Kate.

AND we don't understand why Spencer is putting up with her which is almost as big a mystery to me and quite relevant if he is going to "protect" her when he is exposed. I can live with not having the entire Esme backstory for a while but they need to give us tidbits here to at least understand the dynamic between the characters.

I will say that, for me at least, someone who is fine with Spencer but not a huge fan, him staying loyal to Esme without telling the audience why - it certainly isn't played as love so what is it? - is going to wear thin very fast. Especially if he ends up resenting his father for exposing what he did without having told him it wasn't entirely his doing. What is he expecting his dad to say and do about it if he doesn't even provide the minimal attenuating circumstances that would happen to be the truth? I'll wait and see but I am not super delighted about those spoilers.

1994-1995 is a generally accepted year where something changed. The myth however is that it was the OJ Simpson trial. Real fans know that soaps had started to have creative problems before that.

Hating the way this return is unfolding. As everyone else said almost every beat is played wrong. On the other hand, I will watch the Nina/Carly showdown because this is the kind of scene LW was born to play and in the scene-ender, Nina didn't look like she was going to be as remorseful to Carly as she had been to the others. Which is what I want to see. Can't tell you how much Joss' "So because my mom wasn't nice enough to her..." line irritated the hell out of me and basically put me squarely in Nina's camp. Quite the feat. I will say say that after Sonny's cemetary scene with Nina, it is pretty clear to me they are not letting that thread go because they are playing Sonny a lot softer towards her almost immediately, whereas I expected at least a few weeks/months of rage and revenge-swearing on his part. I am half expecting him to try and discourage Michael from using Wiley to punish Nina - and that creating tensions with Michael and Carly. We will see. I have been so wrong about this entire story and they have messed it up so much that I am not going to overthink it too much.

Hey, we gays got plenty of mind candy during Beyond Salem so I am all for the ladies getting some too. And you will have a cameo by Leo flirting with Duke and making joke about being tired of twinks and going for bears now.

I really don't understand these one-or-two episode temps. I realize soap filming is a well-oiled machine but if someone has to be out for a couple of days for an illness or whatever, it seems it wouldn't be that hard to reschedule a handful of scenes to film a bit later that week, no? Is it really that time-sensitive?

Same. To me their (too abrupt) shift to writing Jason as starting to get into the relationship with Carly after initially being shown to be very reluctant was telegraphing him getting there... just in time for Sonny to see them. And something happened where story was rushed AND the drama was taken out of it. I bet Jarly doing it was specifically vetoed by someone. But there is no way someone didn't have the parallel in mind; it really looked like they were setting it up. I don't want to derail this fantastic conversation by ranting about the current events but I agree with amy: the writers knew about the history. The very way in which they showed Carly being gung-ho about wedding Jason as soon as the idea came up despite "not being in love" was very fitting with the way that relationship had been written all the way back to SJB days imo.

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He was "disappeared" because he tried to warn Amanda about Jordan trying to turn her into Amalie. Jordan overheard him telling the Corys he had something to tell them and well traitor! Yada yada

Indeed. On a similar note, one of the worst moments of Y&R history for me personally, that got almost no attention at the time and is completely forgotten now, is when Victor PUSHED Diane out of a moving ambulance. And they treated it as high comedy with Adam and Jack giggling at Diane's telling them of her "misadventure" They had at least had the good sense of making Victor's abusive behavior towards Nikki purely verbal and behavioral - not better by any means but it gave them plausible deniability. But they literally had him put his hands on a woman and they thought it was funny rather than the character-destroying moment it was for me. And I still cannot believe it was not more of a thing among viewers. What a vile moment that was, regardless of how one felt about Diane .

That's my problem with JT as Billy: his performance is utterly joyless. He can act, that's not the problem. And Billy has gone through so many versions by now that I can accept his "not being the same character". But every time he is on screen there is no spark, no energy, no joy of acting. It is not nearly at the level of cashing a paycheck but there is definitely a sense of not finding inspiration at all in the scripts and the character. And it is really not good if I can tell from the other side of the screen. Can I blame him entirely? Well, no. Billy has been written awfully. But the reason I would probably favor BM a bit over JT is that at least BM had energy, a sense of giving it his all even when we later found out he hated the material. In both cases, Billy was often poorly written and overexposed and unsympathetic. But JT, for reasons I can't put my finger on, is just depressing to watch and hard to figure out what he is doing, if anything. Does anyone have a sense of who he thinks Billy is as a person, beyond whoever he is sleeping with at a given time? I didn't always like what BM was doing and I understand why people might find his acting style annoying but at least I was watching someone act his a** out and really that should be the minimum I expect of him.

Understood. It is fair. I agree a better choice long-term would have been to have him presumed dead or a prolonged coma. Writers overuse deaths that can't be reversed; they are so short-sighted sometimes. But considering how many long-term characters ended up written out carelessly afterwards, I think all things considered they got good story out of his exit. I am pretty certain he wasn't fired. The story I had had always heard - and I am not putting my own credibility on the line for it but I heard it often enough including on here - was that he was thinking of leaving for a variety of reasons but got really pissed off when Christine Tucci, who he was dating at the time, got fired and that sealed the deal and he decided to walk. As for his soon-afterwards temporary return, he wouldn't be the first guy to make an important decision on an impulse and once faced with the phone not ringing and the bills coming due, be a bit "Oh s**t" about it.

Justine was atrocious. I am curious why you consider Ryan's death a nadir. Do you mean the FACT he died or did you dislike the way they went about it? My take is that while I would have tried to write an exit that left the door open for a return, PMV wanted to leave so it is not like they randomly chose to kill him off. And I thought all the scenes surrounding his passing were nicely done, the acting was on-point and the pursuit of Grant as his real killer in the months afterward was actually relatively compelling for me. Was there criticism of the way it was written though? On the other hand, that's the time at which they started Felicia/John and had Donna sleep with Michael again while engaged to Matt, and yes I can see why overall this could be considered as a really really time for the show. It lost a lot of heart in six months.

The Beyond Salem question was definitely the hardest. I almost wanted to say Austin/Carrie to boost up their numbers because I knew Will/Sonny would run with it anyway. In the end I am glad that my answer is the #1 answer for every question. It makes me feel very basic but right

I almost wrote a similar comment yesterday that included people like Kim Zimmer in the mix as well. While there are tons of amazing actors on soaps, a LOT of the "legendary" headliners are not great actors per se, simply people whose character is just a version of them. And, hey, being a good fit for your character goes a long way so I am not mad at it. But I tend to think of Braeden being in that category too. I believe that's why I like Slezak as Viki and cringe when she plays the alters. Etc.

Inspired by Joseph's comment in the Unpopular Opinion thread... why do we think that Victoria W. was so consistently snubbed by the Emmys (only got nominated in 78/79 and then twenty years of nothing)?

I don't remember being bothered by it very much but I do remember it being very trendy. The covers certainly evoke that: this is the Rachel cut with Melrose Place Sydney Season 5 collection of over-the-top little-girl hair accessories. I remember really liking the Ali story. It was working a lot better than it had any right to and as you say, it had a more serious undertone than it looked outwardly. With enough comedy that it wasn't depressing. Whatever happened to that actress?

I feel I have an excuse to have forgotten that they got together because this scene was very subtle and nuanced and the message could easily have been lost on me lol But at least Christie looked glowing there.

Yes! Yes! Yes! I remember that now that you mention it but in my mind it was one of the many many many dreams/fantasies they had when they were pining for each other and I wouldn't have remembered it was supposed to have actually happened. And in my defense... come on!

OK I stand corrected. Can't believe I completely wiped that out of my memory. I didn't remember that they did get together and leave together. Which says something about either me getting old or the quality of the payoff. Or both.

I have to say I am really confused about the Carrie/Mike story in hindsight. Maybe I am misremembering but it was a whole thing for a long time but it never led anywhere, did it? It feels like they really took their time to build up the longing and flirtation that we would forgive Carrie for breaking up Carrie/Austin except that... she didn't. So it ended up being a lot of build-up and no payoff.

It does feel the writers are writing them as an item out of obligation. MB and LW have a decent rapport but it does not feel like romantic chemistry and never have. Which is another reason the way they are messing up the current stories is triply irritating. Since they didn't have the guts to break them up outright, it should have been a decent window of opportunity to explore the characters drifting apart for logical reasons and instead someone insisted that No. Carson must be the endgame.

Thirded. I too actually liked RKK's Bo and Billie better as a couple than PR's Bo and Hope. Oh and since we are on the subject of unpopular opinions in that other thread, here is one: Krista Allen's Billie was not the same character as Lisa Rinna's and Lord knows that wasn't an Emmy-worthy performance but... I kinda liked her.

OK I will bite. Erika Slezak had great moments as Viki. But with the caveat I never saw her first take on the role when it was first created (and I hear this was the best version), her work as the alters was just uncomfortably bad imho. I swear that Niki is the broadest least subtle caricature of a performance she could possibly have chosen to give. I hear the argument that she was written as a caricature but I would cringe every time she came on-screen as someone else other than Viki because the scenery-chewing was just too in-your-face for me.