chrisml

Getting rid of Carrington Garland, Louise Sorel, Roberta Weiss, Frank Runyeon, Roscoe Born and Justin Locke was ridiculous. I think getting rid of Carrington Garland was the beginning of the end for the show. The departure of Martinez cemented it. Marcy Walker's last few months were horribly written. It was a relief in a way to be rid of Eden/Suzanne because the storyline was so horrendous. Garland did have chemistry with everyone, and Davidson did not. The Dobsons and Rauch gutted the show for what? Warren and Katrina? Two characters who added very little although I know some liked Warren. I was annoyed by them especially in how Moncrieff's Cassie was sacrificed to booster Warren and Angela who had no chemistry.

As someone who watched AW back then, I never bought Judi Evans as Paulina. Someone on this board mentioned Evans should have played Nancy and I like that idea. I also had no interest in Jake and I wish he had been murdered during the who shot Jake? storyline. I know rapists get "redeemed" or "romanticized" on soaps all the time, but I was done with Jake after he raped Marley. It just made it all the worse when Wheeler came back and they turned Marley into a bit of a whackjob so they could prop up Vicky and Jake. I found joseph Barbara more attractive then Eplin so I didn't mind Joe's nonsense especially if he were shirtless. Hypocritical I know.

I thought they missed so many opportunities with the character of Laura. Norris is such a good actress that I would have liked them to put her in other stories that didn't revolve around Ethan or Michael (although I liked the Michael/Laura story for a long while). Soaps just loved to turn female characters crazy when they didn't know what to do with them. While I liked crazy Laura, it was obvious the writers had no idea what to do with Laura once the Leo Mitchell story ended.

And the Laura/Bunny/Annie story was one of my faves. I wish it had gone on longer but I am probably in the minority about that. I tended to like the crazy and outrageous characters. Flame was another of my favorite characters.

The Caroline storyline confused me when I first watched it on youtube. It felt like another SB story where they had no idea where they wanted to take it, and then it was decided just to get rid of the characters. So odd. I really wish there has been someone at the network or production company who would root for consistency in storylines.

I remember reading that Rauch fired Bizeau because of her relationship with Born. Born had apparently written a song insulting Rauch and others. Bizeau/Weiss was collateral damage so to speak. The Dobsons were setting up storylines with Bizeau so they clearly wanted to write for her. I think that's why Hickey briefly came in to wrap up everything. It probably explains why Runyeon would exit since Flame and Michael were set up to be a couple on the show.

I know John Conboy gets a lot of flack for his tenure on the show, but it's the last time I enjoyed the show (admittedly, he had his problems). Once Rauch took over, the show just lost so much of its appeal. He made bad decision after decision. The departures of Marcy Walker, Carrington Garland, Roberta Bizeau and Louise Sorel really spelled the end for the show for me. I've never bothered to watch the Pamela Long tenure. I've seen the odd episode or clip but I have no desire to watch. The beginning of SB was very rough and I wonder how much time the Dobsons had to get the show on air. When did NBC choose to switch from Match Game/Hollywood Squares to SB?

I'm always shocked that the network or the production company didn't step in and stop the revolving door of characters. It really did harm the show because you would have months to get to know and enjoy a character and then he/she would be sent away/killed off once the new headwriter or exec came in. I suppose that's like most soaps (Especially AW the last seven or eight years), but SB just seemed to do it the worst. The show rarely had any stable characters beyond the Capwells. Since they never managed to do that, Marcy Walker's departure and Carrington Garland's firing really destroyed the show.

I recall reading articles that Griggs was fired from OLTL and AW because of backstage behavior. I don't know if that's accurate, but it certainly seems to the case at least with AW.

I am a Dark Shadows newbie. Do fans recommend starting the series from the beginning or starting at the Barnabas story?

Brandi on UGT2 has her moments, but it's in the middle of some horrific stuff. She still insists on going after Taylor for Russell's suicide which is disgusting. She never took responsibility for all the time she claimed Taylor was lying. She plays victim when Dorinda mentions her child, but thinks nothing of the Russell comments when his daughter will hear them? (Even if Kennedy doesn't remember her dad, it's still an icky thing to say on camera). She's obsessed with this Denise thing. Somehow, she thinks it going to get her back on a show by constantly bringing it up. This is a woman who let the coven five use her to get rid of Denise just because she thought she could use it to come back onto the show. And she's still harboring anger that she didn't go to the reunion that year. Phaedra shows why she can't come back to RHOA. She's playing a part and offers nothing else. Her whole time is making predictable wisecracks and funny faces while not talking about herself. Like a good producer, Tamra tried to get her to open up, and Phaedra just would not do it. Her refusing to accept responsibility for the rape allegation is why I don't want her back. It annoys me Phaedra derailed the conversation about the housewives getting fired because I wanted to hear from the wives who basically fired themselves through their own behavior versus those who were fried because the producers wanted to change things. Dorinda, Phaedra, Jill, and Vicki fired themselves on their last reunions, but none of them discussed it because the subject was quickly changed because of Phaedra. RHOBH: It was obvious Diana was brought on to go after Sutton and Garcelle after the ticketgate stuff. When Sutton had the receipt, Diana's story went up in smoke and she's been spinning her wheels since. Sutton and Garcelle are carrying this show, and the coven are angry. Rinna's complaining about the editing and Kyle is doing press tour apologies. Fraudika is too busy fighting with that twitter lawyer.

I haven't seen enough of Ellen Wheeler's early tenure as Marley and Vicki. I wish there were an on demand service that aired the show (the way The Doctors is). I had no idea that the Rhonda Lewin who played Vicki was the Rhonda Lee that was on Star Search. She competed in the actress category. Rhonda Lewin on Star Search (at the 40 minute mark).

I think the character of Jake should have been written off and the story should have been "Who killed Jake?" I was never one to enjoy rapists as romantic leads. I know it was common on soaps, but I thought Marley's rape was unnecessary (as most soap rapes are) and highlights the woman hating that goes on in soaps. There was no follow through, and it added nothing to the story. It was just another example of something writers or execs come up with when they don't know what to do with a character (Lorna would get the same treatment later on). I also liked Cali Timmins's Paulina and I'm the kind of soap viewers who holds grudges so I never really warmed to Judi Evans as Paulina.

Exactly. Soap producers ignored this lesson. When you constantly change things, viewers tune out. Viewers want consistency. They don't want a new show every time a new producer or writer comes on the show. For some bizarre reason, the execs, producers and writers thought they had ditch the older characters and bring in the younger ones. Time after time, research showed that younger viewers liked long-term characters. They usually watched with their mothers or grandmothers do they enjoyed the "older" characters. I remember reading how YR's Jeanne Cooper was hugely popular with the younger audience for ex. I was almost seven when Ellen Parker was written off, and I still remember Maureen's death as if it happened yesterday. It's been over 29 years and I'm still upset by it (I'm also still upset by Frankie Frame's death on AW). I think soaps died because they gutted the heart out of the shows and they didn't respect viewers' loyalty and love of the show. They were constantly on the search for the "teen viewers" but they did it by alienating the people already watching the show. After Maureen died, I didn't watch GL for years. It was like losing a family member which I know sounds strange, but it was such a gut punch.

It's interesting to me that the Dobsons complained about the amount of rape that happened on the show when they returned for their second go around, but they wrote rape storylines during their first tenure.

I think 1989 is excellent for many of the stories. The Robert Barr storyline was wonderful until early 1990 when they didn't know what to do with it. I also liked the Laura/Michael storyline until that also just sputtered to a "conclusion." I think SB has many moments of brilliance, but as I've written so many times, there was a lack of consistency and follow through, and that's present from the beginning to 1991 (I don't know much that happened after Roberta Bizeau's departure).

I think Rachel/Iris would have been a fantastic rivalry. They played some of that when Carmen Duncan took over, but they let it go. Duncan and Wyndham would have been a formidable team.

I agree Sandra didn't really work, but even within that story, it didn't seem like they knew why she was there. What was the point of bringing her on? For SB's tenure (and I have not gotten to Long's time), it feels as if someone has an idea and brings on a character and/or story, but no one determines if there is an end game. The show often feels like the storylines were written based on a whim or who the exec producer was not happy with at any given moment.

It's true that shows often dropped characters or stories. Perhaps, it's not as obvious with other soaps because they had long-term characters or storylines going on as well. SB was only on for nearly nine years, and the constant storylines changes seemed to happen all the time. I've lost count of the number of characters who come on strong, and then disappear or just fizzle out (Sandra the psychic is another big example). I think you're right that it was the constant interference. It's sad to me watching the show now because there was so much potential, but as you point out, the show would find the groove and then big changes would happen.

Has there been another soap with so many shifts in storylines and lack of long-term story? I've been watching the show, and it feels like every two/three months that storylines end or fizzle out and then the show starts from scratch. Certain characters stay, but there is always a turnover in cast. The show's writers & producers are unable to sustain anything for more than three months. I am thinking (as an example) of the Laura/Michael storyline. It was a major storyline for weeks and then it just sputtered to an ending of sorts. It feels like SB is full of those sorts of thing. I thought it might have been intentional at first, but it really plays like the writers and execs have no idea where they are going from month to month with the storylines.

I'm probably in the minority but I liked DePriest's first tenure. Was it perfect? No, but I find it immensely watchable despite all the missteps (and there were definitely missteps.) MY biggest gripe: getting rid of Petronia Paley's Quinn which I think was a major blow to the show. I also wonder how many of the problems were network or exec related: for example, the Dawn storyline. I remember reading that the execs got cold feet and wanted it to end. I also remember that Hank Cheyne's Scott was meant to be Donna's son at one point, but that never panned out. I think Anna Stuart leaving ended that storyline. I really liked a lot of Swajeski's storylines, but a lot of them didn't always pan out. The Red Swan storyline for instance. It never went anywhere interesting. The Chief storyline was fantastic, and should have earned Carmen Duncan an emmy, but that story was ended abruptly because of Watson's death. I also liked Taylor's reign of terror which I think could have gone on longer. Once Swajeski leaves, the quality ebbs and flows in annoying ways sometimes.

I'm not surprised Sharon Gabet was disenchanted with her time on AW. The writers never seemed to know who Brittany was. She changed personalities constantly. I can't say I was bored, but I never knew what was going on with the character.

JFP treated Laura Bonarrigo the way she did Ellen Parker on GL and Alice Barrett on AW. JFP had such a sexist streak to her, and she had no tolerance for female characters who were beloved by fans and often the moral center of a storyline or show. The female characters became so idiotic during JFP's reign. Their IQ points dropped severely. I'm always surprised that later producers did not bring back LB.

I know this may be an impossible question to answer, but why was SB unable to develop lasting characters outside of characters related to the Capwells? It felt as if the writers/producers would bring in characters for three months and then lose interest. I would blame the constant change in writers, but even during a specific regime's tenure, the same thing would happen. I'm thinking specifically of Lenore Kasdorf's Caroline and Christopher Norris's Laura.

The Flame/Michael pairing was successful though but it never got off the ground because of her firing. Wasn't it Rauch who fired her though? He also fired Louise Sorel because of their previous relationship.