Vee

1 hour ago, Chris B said:

They’ve been here a month and were given instructions on what story to lead with which is Jason’s return. Even with that, they’ve written more meaningful scenes for the Black characters than we’ve had in a year.

Years, I'd argue, based on the Marshall closeout stuff and Trina's graveside monologue.

2 hours ago, carolineg said:

I vividly remember the Titanic lady episode.  And I am pretty positive TB's Carly stole money from Jax because I remember thinking Ingo/TB had some chemistry.  I think Courtney worked there too?  I swear it didn't even last 6 months.

I remember JFP chem testing Ingo and Tamara at the time in 2001 and early '02, yes. I never bought into them at all or into that random club. Whereas the Cellar (a former speakeasy) I thought was at least an interesting idea, even if splashing out for a special 'silent' 1920s flashback episode for even more mob was ludicrous and depressing. (Dylan Cash featured heavily IIRC, which was painful enough.) It took LW and Ingo to make me buy that Jax and Carly would ever go near each other. Strange how that happens.

2 hours ago, dc11786 said:

Sasha doesn't work. I find her and Cody bland. Cody could work as the aging himbo but I'd still probably only want to see him on recurring unless they found some place for him. I think him being Mac and Dominique's son is a bizarre choice even as someone who liked Mac and Dominique. I do think Dom was offscreen in late 1991 between actresses and there was space for them to say Dom had a kid then as she was locked in a psych ward, but I don't think she and Mac went to bed until after Shell Danielson was in the role because the sexual violence during her marriage to Leopold was a stumbling block for the couple in January, 1992. 

I think Cody is a classic soap archetype - mischievous farmhand himbo - and JK is a lot of fun with anyone else IMO. You could plug him in with Liz, Tracy or anywhere. Wasting him on marzipan Sasha is tiresome. But wasn't Dominique only in a psych ward for less than a month? Not enough time to have had Mac's kid. It's far preferable for him to just be Mac's son with some woman back in Australia.

2 hours ago, carolineg said:

Faith killed her own grandma?  Damn she was evil.  You know, come to think of it didn't Faith end up with the club actually?

She stole it for awhile. Carly got it back, then dumped it altogether at some point lol.

4 hours ago, carolineg said:

From the way Alexis reacts I assume Nina's not doing a good job or not doing the job correctly.  Alexis clearly thinks all Nina's ideas are awful.  Idk, the last week was pretty much dumping on Nina for existing, so it's hard to say if these conclusions are correct.

Yeah, she doesn't like the style of Nina's journalism but she can't deny it's a success. Something Gregory noted a while ago. Not that I think we'll see much of Nina at the Invader/Intruder? either.

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

I always liked the vibe of that club and thought it was a cool idea.  I can't remember what happened to it.  It didn't last very long, but it was either shot up or Carly tried to 
embezzle from Jax (who was her business partner).  Possibly both.  I don't think it ever officially closed just stopped appearing.

The Cellar. Got a huge special episode rollout with the old lady from Titanic and then I think we never saw it again lol.

The advantages of watching the show.

24 minutes ago, carolineg said:

You aren't wrong about Nina.  I don't know what Nina is capable of running with all her years in the coma.  Carly was apparently better at running Crimson too

I mean, in fairness they kind of admitted Carly wasn't when the new regime flushed all of that immediately and said Carly just did it to please Drew lol. They've been going on and on about how brilliant Nina was at Crimson instead. I never got it when she was put there many years ago but it's a decent enough place for her and CW sells it. I do agree it was growth to have her leave the MC, but the location is also a good story harbor for a lot of things so I kind of understand it.

Is Nina actually having difficulty running the paper?

I prefer Carly at Bobbie's as well after her years of being wealthy at the MC. But I also understand resetting her with a new regime. It doesn't really make sense for Nina to run the hotel. I hope we'll continue to see Carly running/working at Bobbie's at least, and I expect we will (just as we saw Bobbie both there and the hospital).

I'll have more on the rest of the week in a bit but I will say I think Kate Mansi may be becoming the stealth breakout of the new regime, on top of Watros and (somehow) CM as @titan1978 said. (Not that I don't think there is real value to Cameron when he is used well just as in his best days on AMC, as I've always said; it's just that he hasn't been for most of his tenure and it's made Drew unbearable for so long until very recently.)

The question is will the day to day slant on Nina get in CW's way, because it does vary. Yes, Nina is a spoiled, histrionic and delusional heiress; she always has been and that is true to form IMO. The issue is when the writing shows that yet also defaults too much back to The Life of Carly voice that has pervaded the show for so long. You can have one without the other.

Anyway, I think Mansi has been very good and is emerging as one of the strongest younger voice on the show. The issue at present is her stories. Blaze is not ready for the big time AFAIC despite some compelling ideas in that story, and the surrogacy needs to end ASAP. I also would rather keep BLQ single and unshackled, and I doubt Chase is going anywhere any time soon. I agree it makes no sense for Chase to be poor given his family lineage.

Sasha needs to go, preferably alone. I have zero interest in her saga of finding herself in horse stables, in the kitchen or on Bootleg QVC.

@DRW50 @Faulkner

Seems Gibson either is staying or will at least be there for some portion of Series 15/Season 2, which is nice to hear.

A legend in her own right.

And there it is.

1 minute ago, carolineg said:

It will probably be a white lace blazer to be fair 

Think the movie Women Talking.

It would admittedly be a refreshing change for Donna to put someone else on Ignore vs. the 60-70% of us on here who have already done so.

Spamming posts and suffocating threads with random minutiae, OT anecdotes and pointless pedantics are never going to make you the center of a forum or important.

14 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

That Rogue and Magneto dance sequence was so over the top, but damn it if I didn’t love it.  

Could not believe they got away with the hardcore nuzzling. Such a horny show!

Like I said in the reboot thread: I'll believe this even happens when I see it lol.

A lot of people have speculated Mystique may be Val. (I don't think it should be tagged for that reason, there's no spoiler there.) She has impersonated her before in the comics. I found it suspicious that they focused on her reaction to Rogue and Magneto, and more importantly that they go out of their way neither to name Mystique nor show her true form in Rogue's flashback when they show Rogue and her "evil mother". So I think it's a real possibility.

I don't think we're going to see a quad after this - I think they are going to reaffirm Scott and Jean, which is fine with me. The writing is very good. I love Emma but I don't need Emma to get a big role right now.

5 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

IMO, the Krakoa era has been threading water since Hickman abruptly left. I’m still upset he never got to finish his plans as the head of the X office. Krakoa did change the status quo for the X books though (which was badly needed).

I do wish he'd stayed longer, but I also think a lot of the post-Inferno Krakoa with Ewing, Gillen, etc. was very solid. Especially X-Men Red. (Hickman says he simply left amiably because his colleagues wanted to stay in the current island setup longer, and seems very supportive of them - I suspect he intended to have the mutants move fully into space.) They did mangle Moira without him though. Fortunately that seems to be getting reset.

I would've liked to see them dump some of the more tired writers (Duggan), refresh creatives and keep going. But there needed to be a Sinister moratorium for awhile. Enough Sinister. 

The 'back to basics revamp' looks deeply uninspired and uninteresting, but I am glad to see a potential better role for my poor Betsy Braddock.

Anyway, Beau DeMayo tweeted last night:

His online behavior has often rubbed me the wrong way and I was not entirely shocked when he was abruptly fired - he seemed arrogant and unctuous. But there's no denying this work has been very good, and a lot of the staff seems very supportive of him even now. Assuming he doesn't turn out to be some sort of sex pest (which also would not shock me) I hope an arrangement can be reached for him to continue.

Just now, BetterForgotten said:

It’s easily the best thing Marvel has produced since the end of the Infinity saga

I might give the edge to WandaVision thus far, but it's definitely close.

It still hits hard as a comics fan knowing Krakoa is ending around the same time as its very close analog on TV. But I expect Marvel will return to the Krakoa status quo in comics eventually - revivals are big.

Another thing I missed: Madelyne's vision in the premiere featuring the Ace of Base song and Cable, foreshadowing this episode.

....So after watching THAT, this series is probably the peak of X-Men media outside of the comics, which I was not expecting at all from this going into it as I said earlier. The animation and direction are just firing on all cylinders, and there is a very heavy anime influence in the kineticism of the action - Gambit on the bike, etc. is straight out of Akira. The subliminal flash cuts heavily resemble Neon Genesis Evangelion to me (and there's a nice, very subtle touch of Magneto's final mental flashback being to Auschwitz, not Genosha). They really went all-out. This is also the first time I've ever really rooted for Rogue/Gambit as a couple; I've never liked him. But he was great in the final act.

@DRW50 (who I hope will get to this show) will notice a lot of parallels to not just the Krakoa era overall - the party/gala is lifted from both the ending of House of X and the Krakoan Hellfire Galas right down to decor/architecture, the Quiet Council is here, the statues, while the city area is similar to Genosha from the comics - but also a big echo of House of X #4's fatal space attack on the Mother Mold. It is very bittersweet watching this show at the eve of the Krakoa era in the comics, but especially given how this episode ends. They sort of merge it with the actual Genoshan genocide in Morrison's X-Men run in 2000s, which is where the Tri-Sentinel here comes from. I suspect this is not where the Krakoa parallels will end, assuming we do not intend to still be short several key characters at the close of this season.

Certain things, as I said, have been speedrun across the first half of this season, even by the standards of Saturday morning cartoon pacing; Maddy, Inferno, Forge and Storm's romance, Scott and Maddy's 'psychic affair' just being dropped into the middle of this episode (another direct lift from Morrison, with Jean 'walking in' on Scott and Maddy in an identical scene to her finding Scott and Emma together). They clearly didn't know if they would be another streaming casualty when they made this show so they threw in everything they possibly could. But most of it really works despite the rushed bits. And you can't argue with this episode, easily the best thing they've done. Lenore Zann's voice has changed since the '90s but she sold this stuff very well, and Cal Dodd remains the definitive Wolverine.

And yes: It is very much a SOAP. The dressing-downs Jean and Scott give each other and Trish Tilby could come straight from soap opera, and are very well-done. The '90s needledrop of Ace of Base during the gala was great. I was surprised they did not pull the punch on Rogue and Magneto actually having a romance; before this I was sure it would be a misdirect to make Gambit jealous. The adult treatment of social issues and sensuality mirror both horny old Claremont and the Krakoa era. I'm a little surprised Disney let them get away with the last 20 minutes. The title of this episode was appropriate. A lot of kids will never forget it.

Hi @Darn!

One thing I missed: The Watcher in the skies over Genosha. They cleverly show his shadow over the party.

3 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

I just wish that it wasn't 10 episodes and they had expanded it to 15 or more. But whatever. I think the success of this show is going to lead to them rebooting Spiderman and doing other animated series. 

It's clear they sped through stuff very fast (Maddy, Inferno, Lifedeath, etc.) knowing they only had 10 eps and might not get renewed. It really needs at least 15 IMO. It's a half-hour cartoon, let it breathe.

It is not lost on me that Genosha's current landmass and much of its visuals, government, background characters, etc. look exactly like the Krakoa era. A very bittersweet moment, in addition to the horniness being turned up in this show just like on Krakoa.

8 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

@Vee let me know when you've watched the latest episode. I want to hear your opinion on it. And I know that Beau DeMayo might've been a terror bts but Marvel needs to rethink that and slap him in some therapy or something. He is really creating a masterpiece with this show. 

And to soap fans that are lurking, I STRONGLY suggest you watch. It has it soapy elements that'll endear you and is much more mature than one would imagine. 

Oh, it's definitely a soap. In the classic Claremont tradition. They needed to give Lifedeath more episodes though. That first part was too swift. Watching today's now.

Heroes Reborn was one of the worst shows I've ever seen, besides the original Heroes.

I've been much more impressed than I thought I would be so far. (Haven't seen today's ep yet) The obnoxious online behavior of the now-ousted showrunner had me skeptical from a year or two ago when this was first announced, and as a longtime X-fan going back to the '80s I have a limited amount of patience for '90s nostalgia since the X-Men books were in the shitter in that period AFAIC. But I did enjoy the cartoon a lot as a kid, and they've managed to update it in really smart ways while pushing the envelope both in character and content. It's still a family cartoon but it's very bold in some ways.

It can't be more muddled than the last one. I'll give it a shot. But I agree it probably won't happen.