Vee

A lot of people have speculated Mystique may be Val. (I don't think it should be tagged for that reason, there's no spoiler there.) She has impersonated her before in the comics. I found it suspicious that they focused on her reaction to Rogue and Magneto, and more importantly that they go out of their way neither to name Mystique nor show her true form in Rogue's flashback when they show Rogue and her "evil mother". So I think it's a real possibility.

I don't think we're going to see a quad after this - I think they are going to reaffirm Scott and Jean, which is fine with me. The writing is very good. I love Emma but I don't need Emma to get a big role right now.

5 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

IMO, the Krakoa era has been threading water since Hickman abruptly left. I’m still upset he never got to finish his plans as the head of the X office. Krakoa did change the status quo for the X books though (which was badly needed).

I do wish he'd stayed longer, but I also think a lot of the post-Inferno Krakoa with Ewing, Gillen, etc. was very solid. Especially X-Men Red. (Hickman says he simply left amiably because his colleagues wanted to stay in the current island setup longer, and seems very supportive of them - I suspect he intended to have the mutants move fully into space.) They did mangle Moira without him though. Fortunately that seems to be getting reset.

I would've liked to see them dump some of the more tired writers (Duggan), refresh creatives and keep going. But there needed to be a Sinister moratorium for awhile. Enough Sinister. 

The 'back to basics revamp' looks deeply uninspired and uninteresting, but I am glad to see a potential better role for my poor Betsy Braddock.

Anyway, Beau DeMayo tweeted last night:

His online behavior has often rubbed me the wrong way and I was not entirely shocked when he was abruptly fired - he seemed arrogant and unctuous. But there's no denying this work has been very good, and a lot of the staff seems very supportive of him even now. Assuming he doesn't turn out to be some sort of sex pest (which also would not shock me) I hope an arrangement can be reached for him to continue.

Just now, BetterForgotten said:

It’s easily the best thing Marvel has produced since the end of the Infinity saga

I might give the edge to WandaVision thus far, but it's definitely close.

It still hits hard as a comics fan knowing Krakoa is ending around the same time as its very close analog on TV. But I expect Marvel will return to the Krakoa status quo in comics eventually - revivals are big.

Another thing I missed: Madelyne's vision in the premiere featuring the Ace of Base song and Cable, foreshadowing this episode.

....So after watching THAT, this series is probably the peak of X-Men media outside of the comics, which I was not expecting at all from this going into it as I said earlier. The animation and direction are just firing on all cylinders, and there is a very heavy anime influence in the kineticism of the action - Gambit on the bike, etc. is straight out of Akira. The subliminal flash cuts heavily resemble Neon Genesis Evangelion to me (and there's a nice, very subtle touch of Magneto's final mental flashback being to Auschwitz, not Genosha). They really went all-out. This is also the first time I've ever really rooted for Rogue/Gambit as a couple; I've never liked him. But he was great in the final act.

@DRW50 (who I hope will get to this show) will notice a lot of parallels to not just the Krakoa era overall - the party/gala is lifted from both the ending of House of X and the Krakoan Hellfire Galas right down to decor/architecture, the Quiet Council is here, the statues, while the city area is similar to Genosha from the comics - but also a big echo of House of X #4's fatal space attack on the Mother Mold. It is very bittersweet watching this show at the eve of the Krakoa era in the comics, but especially given how this episode ends. They sort of merge it with the actual Genoshan genocide in Morrison's X-Men run in 2000s, which is where the Tri-Sentinel here comes from. I suspect this is not where the Krakoa parallels will end, assuming we do not intend to still be short several key characters at the close of this season.

Certain things, as I said, have been speedrun across the first half of this season, even by the standards of Saturday morning cartoon pacing; Maddy, Inferno, Forge and Storm's romance, Scott and Maddy's 'psychic affair' just being dropped into the middle of this episode (another direct lift from Morrison, with Jean 'walking in' on Scott and Maddy in an identical scene to her finding Scott and Emma together). They clearly didn't know if they would be another streaming casualty when they made this show so they threw in everything they possibly could. But most of it really works despite the rushed bits. And you can't argue with this episode, easily the best thing they've done. Lenore Zann's voice has changed since the '90s but she sold this stuff very well, and Cal Dodd remains the definitive Wolverine.

And yes: It is very much a SOAP. The dressing-downs Jean and Scott give each other and Trish Tilby could come straight from soap opera, and are very well-done. The '90s needledrop of Ace of Base during the gala was great. I was surprised they did not pull the punch on Rogue and Magneto actually having a romance; before this I was sure it would be a misdirect to make Gambit jealous. The adult treatment of social issues and sensuality mirror both horny old Claremont and the Krakoa era. I'm a little surprised Disney let them get away with the last 20 minutes. The title of this episode was appropriate. A lot of kids will never forget it.

Hi @Darn!

One thing I missed: The Watcher in the skies over Genosha. They cleverly show his shadow over the party.

3 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

I just wish that it wasn't 10 episodes and they had expanded it to 15 or more. But whatever. I think the success of this show is going to lead to them rebooting Spiderman and doing other animated series. 

It's clear they sped through stuff very fast (Maddy, Inferno, Lifedeath, etc.) knowing they only had 10 eps and might not get renewed. It really needs at least 15 IMO. It's a half-hour cartoon, let it breathe.

It is not lost on me that Genosha's current landmass and much of its visuals, government, background characters, etc. look exactly like the Krakoa era. A very bittersweet moment, in addition to the horniness being turned up in this show just like on Krakoa.

8 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

@Vee let me know when you've watched the latest episode. I want to hear your opinion on it. And I know that Beau DeMayo might've been a terror bts but Marvel needs to rethink that and slap him in some therapy or something. He is really creating a masterpiece with this show. 

And to soap fans that are lurking, I STRONGLY suggest you watch. It has it soapy elements that'll endear you and is much more mature than one would imagine. 

Oh, it's definitely a soap. In the classic Claremont tradition. They needed to give Lifedeath more episodes though. That first part was too swift. Watching today's now.

Heroes Reborn was one of the worst shows I've ever seen, besides the original Heroes.

I've been much more impressed than I thought I would be so far. (Haven't seen today's ep yet) The obnoxious online behavior of the now-ousted showrunner had me skeptical from a year or two ago when this was first announced, and as a longtime X-fan going back to the '80s I have a limited amount of patience for '90s nostalgia since the X-Men books were in the shitter in that period AFAIC. But I did enjoy the cartoon a lot as a kid, and they've managed to update it in really smart ways while pushing the envelope both in character and content. It's still a family cartoon but it's very bold in some ways.

It can't be more muddled than the last one. I'll give it a shot. But I agree it probably won't happen.

12 minutes ago, carolineg said:

You know I can take or leave Ava and Maura West, but I will always feel like Ava is ill defined.  Is she a villainess to be feared?  A wacky romantic heroine?  A caricature of a human?  I hope PM begins to shape Ava as a character better and go with the villainous mob threat over any romantic story with Sonny.  We've discussed this before, but Ava is definitely a character that has suffered from lack of motivation for years now.

She started as a campy villain with some layers and humanity for certain things and that's who she still is AFAIC. I think it's well defined when they stick to what she's good at. When they tried to soften her up as a romantic heroine for various men (Griffin, Nikolas) they messed her up.

4 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Like so many on this show, it’s a wonder why she’s lasted so long beyond Maura’s talents.

But, honestly, where does Ava go after this storyline and after she’s exposed? At some point, this type of character has an expiration date and when they stretch it for a long time, the character is aimless as hell. 

I'm not worried. Again, it is the Alex Olanov formula from OLTL. Protect her with power and a villain can run another couple years at least (and I would keep her for that time). But yes, she's already been here forever.

Ava is a cartoon in the best way possible for me. Maura always delivers. And she can do the quiet stuff too, when they give her something decent (like those scenes eviscerating Nikolas early last year).

11 minutes ago, carolineg said:

And I know everyone loves Maura West, but some of those faces she was making were right out of a Saturday Night Live parody like someone noted earlier.  I just find Ava so campy, in mostly a good way, but I am not sure if it's intentional on MW's part.

I keep saying this! @DRW50 called it Fire Marshall Bill from In Living Color years ago and Maura has no chill with this stuff, God bless. Her 'poker face' during the Connie mystery days was hilarious. I love it.

3 hours ago, te. said:

Technically, Morgan Brittany only filmed to appear in The Big Bang Theory aka the two hour finale of season 3. Since the explosion was post-poned to the season 4 premiere, but she technically didn't film anything for that. You can tell that post-explosion there's no shot of her when the others get up with fabulous new hair-do's.

I could swear she appears dead on a gurney in the hospital scenes filmed for S4, but otherwise yes.

3 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

I think Kristina may unravel Ava’s plans against Sonny, or Ava may do something that causes Kristina to miscarry (and ending this unnecessary surrogacy storyline). 

Didn't Faith do just that with Liz or someone else back in the 2000s? Ava's bangs and slutty sheer blouse are giving Faith Rosco to the hilt, right down to swanning around Sonny ready to get him into bed.

Meanwhile: Maybe it's me, but those Heather scenes with Kevin and Laura last week were genuinely good and touching IMO. The Tracy stuff has also been wonderful across the board, as others have already touched on.

32 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Yes, it feels similar to the kooky and offbeat character and relationship dynamics from Santa Barbara that PM loved writing for on that show. 

It reminds me of the early setup for Scott and Dominique a bit.

6 hours ago, Bright Eyes said:

"You're such a boy scout."

"A real man lets a woman say no."

"Did I say no?"  - - That was hot! Cameron Mathison still has an insane body. This version of Drew makes me understand how he was initially cast as Ryan Lavery the conman, because I had only ever been privy to the holier than thou, can do no wrong Mary Sue version.

The dialogue Nina had about how men view women vs. how they actually can put their money where their mouth is made me think of horny old PM in the driver's seat tbh. Not that I am complaining. It was uncharacteristic and a refreshing perspective.

And yes, that is a taste of how Cameron used to be in his golden days. There is a reason he used to be very popular on AMC before the rot set in BTS, and why he became a successful TV host. I've never had a problem with CM, it is the writing and choices that trigger his worst acting impulses and make him unbearable to watch sometimes. But he's hot again with the beard and a more breezy and fun approach to the character, which is how he should be used.

11 minutes ago, dc11786 said:

Are we sure that revenge isn't Drew's endgame here? Seems like they could very much go the route that Drew is building up Nina's dependence on him which could lead to an even bigger fall for Nina when she realizes that Drew is only playing her. 

Judging by CM's interview about their hook-up in the spoilers section (only pertaining to today and tomorrow) I don't think this is any ploy, at least not right now. It seems like Drew has a sense of humor about things. I just hope it's not a one-off because tbh these two crazy fools getting together is one of the main points of interest on the show right now. Again, it was one of the hottest, least tame sex scenes GH has done in many years and Watros and Mathison know how to deliver that from the old school.

3 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I've also seen a number of Nina fans who are upset over the whole thing because Drew threatened her with violence not that long ago. I get that, I suppose, but this is a show with many, many years of history with abusive men being treated as hot pieces of ass, so it's hard to be surprised.

That was just one of many crazy lines of dialogue over the last couple years lol. Everyone (but especially Psycho Drew in recent months) has wanted to wear Nina's entrails for fine jewelry, so I was fine with any change. He's been a little nuts but the character softened towards Nina considerably with the writing change and that's when their whole cute love/hate office banter thing started; he no longer talks about her like he's waiting in her pantry with a butcher knife for revenge re: his prison sentence. They try to push that 'he is an abuser!' line because they're Sonny/Nina stans. It is not that serious when you listen to what he said, especially after Jason once threatened to kill Sam.

4 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I really didn't think there were Sonny/Nina stans.  They were okay, but not the second coming of Sonny/Brenda or even Sonny/Carly.  Lol

Twitter will find a rabid fanbase for every poor to mid couple, apparently! I don't understand how Michael and Willow have any fans.

I've only seen part of today's but I will say I thought the sex scene was both hot and pretty charged up dialogue-wise. I haven't seen a GH scene like that in a hot minute, this show has been so tame and sexless for so long. It helps that CW and CM both come from one of the last generations of soap actors who knew how to fúck onscreen. When you've got Twitter stans wailing and rending their garments over 'porn dialogue' it's a good day for me.