Vee

The idea of NBC/Sony hiring Eileen and pushing for Drake with a younger woman wouldn't surprise me at all. But I do think they did work well together at the time, even if I felt the Tony story was so stupid (and a waste of Thaao Penghlis, who would continue to be squandered for years to come until they finally brought back the real, more benevolent Tony). I wonder how much was plotted out with Isabella still in the mix - all the way to the boardroom scenes? I wonder basically a) when they decided to do the affair vs. leaving John with Isabella and Marlena with Roman (assuming that was originally the intent when Dee and Wayne returned) and b) when they decided John and Marlena was the endgame. I don't know if Dee, Drake, etc. have ever spoken on how the storyline and BTS machinations evolved. I always assumed it was a done deal as soon as they fucked at Titan, and I'd forgotten that was around when Eileen first came in. Knowing JER he may have just been lying in wait on the long game for the couple even then.

I never heard that but lately it wouldn't surprise me. I remember that well. I could swear "Mr. Alcazar" was even mentioned at the time but I may be way off.

I've said it before, but I always liked Chloe despite everyone (myself included) wanting Jax and Alexis at that time. Tava Smiley had a lot of grace and warmth. I even liked the abortive Stefan pairing. Chloe deserved better. I thought the mixed marrieds story was a reasonable success at the time. People were talking. The problem was they didn't follow through on the major value, which was Jax and Alexis, which Guza wanted and Riche didn't. So that was part of the era Guza was invested in Jax. By the time he returned I don't think he cared at all.

Probably, yes. If they did it now I wouldn't blink tbh.

I remember finding the whole Tony plotline tedious and strange, yeah. I don't think JER was wrong either. I do think they could've done right by Roman though, and didn't. Even if he was a mandate (from Deidre, I believe) he was an asset to the show. I wouldn't be surprised at all.

I wonder. I always assumed they'd committed to Dee and Drake as endgame as early as the Titan boardroom because they realized the chemistry was too much to deny, and that's why they threw over poor Northrop. I remember liking Kristen even before she was nuts and liking them together, but she may well have been unpopular as a heroine - I was too young to take stock.

I haven't watched the story since it first aired but I remember thinking they were very committed to John and Kristen for awhile (and I felt they worked). I do wonder how Kristen was first conceived when she was a heroine for a long stretch, and when they decided to take the turn, or if she was always intended as a spoiler for an eventual John/Marlena reunion. I don't know when they decided John and Marlena were endgame, I'm sure others know.

Agreed on that one, which is a surprise given those kind of iconic characters get diminishing returns on a second or third recast, especially back then. I remember an ancient, apocryphal story that Karen Lynn Gorney (Tara, AMC) tried to audition for the Nicole recast of all characters and was laughed out of the room.

That one I don't know about, lol

I'd be very careful with sharing the link to randos around here. There's been a lot of troll kabuki theater going on with one or two deeply bored, deeply troubled people and multiple identities in the last few years.

I didn't realize Farley Granger did this arc. It's interesting seeing him acquit himself very well here and on ATWT years after Erika Slezak and co. said he quit OLTL because he couldn't handle the daytime grind. (There was another scandalous rumor about Granger and OLTL years ago but I have no reason to doubt Slezak) I remembered the dramatic recitation Nola did at the party for the film, but not Granger being a part of it. (I think Nola does a few more staged performances in this story, but I honestly can't remember? I may be conflating this) I definitely didn't remember NuNicole's very creepy vision? sighting? of a red-garbed howling figure in the night on the balcony. That's spooky as hell.

Finally digging into Mansion of the Damned in time for Halloween. I've made attempts before, going all the way back to the days of WOST, but gotten sidetracked each time. Ann Williams is as great as I remember her being in material from SFT and Loving; somehow I'd forgotten she played Margo Dorn though I've seen many eps from this period in the distant past. I love her as an actress and I was stupidly going to say I think it's a shame she never got a permanent perch at another soap in the late '80s and '90s and forward, but then I remembered she died soon after Loving. What a huge loss to the genre, and rarely remembered today. I really can't be bothered with either Draper or April atm, and I remember I used to like April more than this. Frances Fisher is still so good. Kim Hunter, of course, is Kim Hunter. It is weird seeing Joel Crothers as Miles in a mature role for the younger couple with what should be the equally mature Nicole, but instead it's the NuNicole - as others have mentioned, the age shift was so severe. I've never seen Maeve McGuire with Crothers but I imagine they would be great together. It's so tragic about Joel, who I grew up watching on Dark Shadows in syndication on the Sci-Fi Channel long before I realized he grew into such a sexy daddy. Ann Flood remains luminous. I always liked her.

There's an old, extremely apocryphal anecdote where RC allegedly told one of the Black performers at OLTL he didn't know how to write for Black people. I doubted that story was true, but he never gave them much at either ABC show. I have to believe the current initiative with the Black cast is in part due to his infatuation with Jackee as '80s TV royalty.

Don't feed the troll. Block and ignore.

I wonder if we'll finally get resolution on Sarah Jane - and gay Luke Smith onscreen, something RTD made a point to canonize last year in the little farewell special. RTD was absolutely ahead of his time with franchising out Who. I couldn't fault Moffat from moving away from it and making the Doctor darker and more mysterious again, and I prefer his regime artistically overall, but in the post-Marvel, post-streaming era there is no doubt RTD's expansive vision for the franchise is the future. The rumor mill is already predictably chugging suggesting Tennant, Piper, Tate, Smith and Jenna Coleman will all return for the 60th, but that's typical rumor stuff. Capaldi has recently said he likely wouldn't return as he feels multi-Doctor stories are poor quality, but he's also a huge fan of the show so who knows.

I've liked Rob Wilson since AMC 2.0 but Ben is a literal serial killer. There's no getting around that or shrugging it off, any more than we can casually shrug off soap rapists in 2021. That's done too. But Ben killed multiple people. They have had a million chances to blame Ben's killings on literally anyone else, and this is a show where Marlena was brainwashed to think she'd murdered half the town. But they don't do it because Ron Carlivati is arrogant and believes the audience will accept anything just like he tried to force them to accept Franco the rapist serial killer on GH, just like he tried to force them to accept a rapist bedding his amnesiac victim on OLTL. They could redeem and retcon Ben at any moment but they don't, and until they do no one is going to forget.

I think they knew they couldn't control or intimidate Joan Collins, and that's why they pushed her out/let her walk. To me Joan looked at ease in the role and like she was having a ball. Yes, she was definitely doing "Joan Collins," but she'd made that image and character an industry unto itself for decades. And frankly, virtually every soap opera grande dame in the modern era has some piece of the Alexis/Joan Collins DNA, Alexandra Spaulding included (and while Beverlee McKinsey's soap fame pre-dates Joan's resurgence in the business on Dynasty, the two women did rise again in the '80s around the same time). So Joan doing "Joan" as Alex wasn't terribly far removed from Alex to begin with. The recast worked. No one could ever outdo Beverlee McKinsey, so the only thing that could match her in stature, however different the energy, was someone like Joan Collins. Marj Dusay, bless her, never could.

Which is why the spinoff world RTD created was, IMO, more productive and viable. It was only after he left they went tits-up (and then there's Miracle Day, oof).

He was always right about this:

They clearly need him, not vice versa.

RTD, like all modern DW showrunners before him (even Chibnall, somehow), was a devoted student of the classic Who era and knows its ups and downs backwards and forwards, having lived as part of the new critical generation that sprung up in the wilderness years of the '80s/'90s and took over the New Adventures Sylvester McCoy novel brand in those years. I'm sure he knows what a major shift this is given Who history of not retaining a prior showrunner, and I suspect he will be very determined to prove to everyone he is not going to be making the kind of show he made in the 2000s. I wouldn't be surprised to see as jarring a stylistic shift as JNT taking over in Series 18 with The Leisure Hive, or what Moffat himself did when he basically reinvented his show for Capaldi (and I felt did it very well). I also think Davies is frankly a better writer than he used to be. I think he got very lazy and cheap near the end with Who and too in need of fan adoration for bringing back all the faves (Donna, etc.) one more time. But his recent work, what little I've seen of it, feels more mature. I think some things have stayed strong and others have aged horribly, and I suspect he knows a lot of that. So we'll see how it goes. This being DW, there are already baseless nonsense rumors of the RTD 'favorite' for the Doctor, the latest being Lydia West who he worked with on his recent shows, so here goes: I would prefer the brilliant T'Nia Miller, who did his show Years and Years and was also heartbreaking on The Haunting of Bly Manor for Netflix, but she's already played a Time Lord in the Capaldi era so I won't bet on her. I've never seen West. He is apparently taking over the entire production and bringing in his crew, supplanting the BBC Studios producers.

Will grinning Brian Stelter report on this one this time?

You should finish Capaldi's! I will have to struggle to finish the Whittaker/Chibnall era, tbh. I've only gotten up to a couple episodes of the last series. The companions all have about the depth of Sesame Street adults to me (I think Ryan's only character 'trait' is 'has dyspraxia'). I don't think there's any denying RTD's work has always been a mix of good, bad, great and awful, but he can never be accused of being a Chibnall. I do also think the times have evolved and I suspect he has as well. I welcome anyone who can right the ship with the show, though I fear it will be regressive for DW going forward to go back to a prior showrunner. I do wonder if this will lead to the mooted Ace spinoff for kids he'd wanted to happen, years ago when SJA was running. Meanwhile: On a side note, I am glad Olly Alexander has broken out in music and TV - I first remember seeing him as the camp British kid in Gaspar Noe's terrible Enter the Void, who ends that dreadful narrative on his knees giving head to Japanese businessmen. Oof.

@DRW50 Not entirely surprised tbh. The show is clearly in crisis and they want to right the ship. I'm not sure there is a precedent for this, though JNT did stay long bc no one else wanted the job, and IIRC they once considered bringing Patrick Troughton and his showrunner back. I felt aspects of Davies' era (particularly the visual aesthetics) had dated poorly remarkably soon after he left, but much of those were also simply a product of their times. I don't think it can be denied that he massively revitalized Who, made it an international name and set the standard for years to come as a devoted fan, though I preferred the Moffat era overall quality-wise - I revisit many of the RTD stories fairly often, even while I never could stand others. His recent show about the AIDS epidemic got good reviews and I've been meaning to watch it. He's a complex and complicated figure, but he could never be a Chris Chibnall. And I'll never forget what he did for people like Lis Sladen. In a number of ways this is retrograde and regressive for Who, but frankly in these uncertain economic times and coming off Chibnall I can't fault them for going back to a strong hand. I just hope he doesn't get too cute.

IIRC, Janice Lynde and the varying characters surrounding her (the Chapins/Coronals, etc.) were not brought in by Rauch. Rauch helped wipe them out, I believe.