DramatistDreamer

9 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

If I recall.. there was a question of who Lily's real mother was.. in fact, Marland briefly had it look like it was Shannon for a bit as well since Lily was also close to Shannon.. who was about the same age as Iva was.

 

I think Martha started playing Lily in May/June 1985.. and Marland didn't show up till September.  When Martha started playing Lily.. the character changed from how the previous actress played the character (who was more of a town boy and more of an introvert).  I do wonder how Marland would have planned to write Lily if it had been the first actress playing her instead of Martha.

I think Shannon was not so much a candidate for Lily's mother, but as a suspect for who was the person behind the mysterious phone calls that Lucinda had been getting.

Back then, nobody knew why Lucinda was getting those phones calls but Craig suspected that it might have something to do with Martin Guest and Sierra only knew that the phone calls made Lucinda very agitated, so both Craig and Sierra (who was by this time married to Tonio) decided to share information and investigate this together.

Once Iva walked into that bar off the Interstate and Lucinda, who'd been sitting there waiting looks up to see who it is, the audience becomes aware that it is actually Iva who was behind those mysterious phone calls to Lucinda (one of which Lucinda ran off the road and got into a near-fatal accident on the way to meet her).  It was in the bar that Iva reveals that she's Lily's mother.  At first, Lucinda is incredulous until Iva starts providing details, including the adoption broker who, it turns out met with Martin Guest.

Craig and Sierra ended up suspecting Shannon as being behind the phone calls because of a weird call that Shannon made to the mansion and appeared to get frazzled when Sierra answered the phone.  Also, when Craig found out the bar off the Interstate where Lucinda went (Lyla, who had found the address on a slip of paper that Lucinda accidentally dropped and left on her hospital room floor after her car crash, contacted Craig), he and Sierra went to talk to the bar owner who identify Lucinda in a picture that they showed him and then proceeded to give a dodgy description of the woman whom Lucinda met (he only mentioned figure, eyes and a green scarf), which Craig and Sierra assumed to be Shannon after she walked into Lucinda's mansion one day wearing a green scarf.  

Sheffer's Barbara was very one-note.  Very little you can do with that and still maintain a viable character.

I have a very random question but perhaps someone here knows the answer:

Does anyone know the name of the accompanist who used to play piano at the Mona Lisa in the '80s?  I've always wondered who he was but I couldn't seem to locate him in the credits, which is odd because he appeared quite often back then,

10 hours ago, Faulkner said:

Maybe Dusan just isn’t great on grass, but Fed is looking in epic form right now. He’s dropped Nike (surrendering his RF logo, which they own) for Uniqlo in a reported 10-year, $300 million+ plus deal. I know athletes can still be valuable past their active years, but how many of those does he intend to play? I’m assuming at least through the Tokyo Olympics in 2020.

 

Ugh, Sloane is in a deep hole against Donna Vekic, and Venus is struggling in early games against Larsson. I have more faith in Venus to switch to another gear, but neither have played since the French, right?

Not according to Roger.  He has stated in press that the RF logo belongs to him and he will be taking that to Uniqlo as soon as some issues are worked out. He sounded pretty adamant about that.

7 hours ago, JaneAusten said:

The times has also become The Onion when it comes to this ridiculous defense of their vote of the orange clown.  They never seem to ask why poorer black evangelisticals turned away from him. They don’t want to write that article. Seriously this is just asinine.

I almost don't want to ask but is this Bret Stephens?  Whenever I see his name anywhere near a byline, I avoid it like the plague that it is. Worse than Brooks.

2 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Maybe one of the several rejected Broderick story ideas involved Barbara?

 

Barbara was kind of a difficult character to write at times.  Didn't Marland decide to one day turn her into a femme fatale after getting fed up with losing one too many times?  Was there backlash from this sudden 180 turn in character?  And what Sheffer did to Barbara... eek!

 

I liked someone's idea before of having Hunt Block play her brother Rick instead of Craig.  It would have served the same function of causing conflict between Hal/Barbara since Rick could have broken the law.. and Barbara wanting to defend her brother... and Kim being in the middle since it involved her nephew.  The whole Rosanna thing still would have worked as well.. and tied Rosanna in with the core family (I don't count the Snyders as a core family.. I count them as an infestation that ate away the show over time).

I'll fess up.  I was the one that brought up Rick Ryan more than once over the years.  Except for a few storylines about 20 years prior, Rick was almost a complete blank slate in soap terms and could've been eased back onto the canvas. 

In terms of Barbara, writing a vixen probably gives the writer a freer hand in writing story.  Oakdale already had its heroine in Kim Hughes and then you had several women (Betsy, Frannie, Margo 2.0) that were various shades of ingenue/heroine so the show needed a vixen and Barbara Ryan with her history of either being trod on or left wanting by the men in her life, likely fit the bill.  

The clever thing about how Barbara was written by Marland was that, even in the midst of her most twisted scheme, she always had a justification for it (even if it only made sense in her mind) and she could never taste complete satisfaction with her actions, even when she appeared to get away with something.  More often than not though, her schemes were usually revealed and often in the most embarrassing of ways.

Unlike today when some characters' actions are completely villainous yet they never seem to pay the price.

Also, Marland humanized Barbara even at her worst.  You never doubted she loved her son Paul. Only once did she really show anything short of love and adoration for Kim and Bob (during the entire Sabrina scandal revelation) and even that was out of a sense of sorrow over her mother Jennifer. 

Barbara was written with enough complexity that even after the affair with Tonio while he was married to Sierra (who Barbara repeatedly sold clothes to) and messing with Tom and Margo and turning vengeful against Brian and Shannon, you still believed that Barbara was actually capable of falling completely in love with Hal Munson.

That's some good writing.

Oh, Goutman had a huge impact actually, so I wasn't downplaying it at all. It was a large and lasting impact.  He was there for at least a decade which was more than enough time to make a lasting impression and that, he did.

I was pointing out that Calhoun was there for only a few years and it is still surprising how much of an impact he had for a relatively brief tenure (in soap years anyway).

Part of what an EP does is not just cost cutting and budgets but in how the talent is managed.  I take the sum total in when I made the distinction.  I've worked with EPs who were strict but managed to treat everyone humanely.  You can't always say yes, but even if you part ways with talent, at least let it be done on relatively amicable terms.

7 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

 

Makes sense, I know she only appeared briefly again as Sierra in later '94/early '95 to reunite with Craig and go back to Montega. The reality of course is very shameful unfortunately. 

 

Love your pic of Debbie Simon btw! 

LOL. Yeah, the avatar is so 90s, that I loved it and couldn't resist.  I loved that Debbie Simon wore glasses, at least for awhile.

They had Sierra also return in '89 to reunite with Craig and then again in the mid 90s. Honestly, they should've kept this couple together and rather than messing with character trajectories, bring Rick Ryan to town in the early 2000s and have him create all the mischief that "Craig" ended up getting into in the show's last decade.

I would've been cool if they had brought back both Finn and Scott to reprise their roles, even briefly, in the show's last few years.  I would've loved to see the original actors interact.  One of the things I loved about ATWT as a kid was how they used to bring Penny on sometimes for special occasions. It's too bad that ATWT stopped doing that by the end of the 90s.

Had the show asked her to reprise her role, even for a brief story arc, if given the chance to work with Scott Bryce again, I doubt she'd turn them down but since they managed to fire Bryce, it doesn't seem that the show would've been interested in that approach.

@John Thanks for posting that.  I wish we could pin that somewhere so that it doesn't get lost in the run of the thread.

The size of the impact that Calhoun had as EP seems much larger than his four years. 

As for Goutman, I'm convinced that when an EP is bad yet is kept on for so long, it is merely because they're the ones that will ultimately put the show "to bed". 

Retaliation for US tariffs begins with Canada on Sunday--and take aim at ketchup, whiskey and soup https://t.co/xWdaKLnGIX

— CNBC (@CNBC) July 1, 2018

11 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

The sad thing is I watched an October 2000 episode recently with Emily talking about her history with Craig and mentioning both Sam and Sierra, except it was with Hunt Block's Craig ugh. It was a nice rare history nod though. 

 

Other than Tremors and an early episode of Law & Order, I can't recall what else Finn Carter has done while I know Bryce has maintained a steady working acting career on a variety of projects. I did enjoy what Evans did bring in the role of Sierra, but the show barely used and even when Evans finally went on contract nothing big happened. 

Well, Finn has two kids, so that may have something to do with it. Also, the reality for men and women in Hollywood is quite different.

Eileen Higgings A.K.A. "La Gringa", a non-Hispanic and a Democrat won in a heavily Hispanic (i.e. Cuban-American) Miami-Dade district that had consistently voted Republican in the past.

That is indeed...something.

4 hours ago, SoapDope said:

I liked Finn Carter as Sierra and was sad when she was gone. I am surprised she never returned to soaps at some point. Her IMDB page lists her last role in 2005. I think someone posted that Scott  Bryce (Craig) still stays in touch with her.

Yes she was so whiny. Andy was always seemed so morose in any pairing he was in. I am surprised they didn't try Andy with Lilly back in the 80's.

So was I.

Did ATWT ever ask that she return in the mid '00s?  It seems that by then the show was pretty wedded to Mary Beth Evans in the role.

It was me who mentioned that Scott Bryce has kept in touch with her.  I read an interview (and posted it somewhere in this thread) that he often goes to L.A. (probably to audition and pilot season) and I believe Finn resides in So. Cal so he probably has caught up with her then.  

Bryce also mentioned that he's close with Tamara Tunie (he calls her his 'sister from another mother') and Brian Bloom (Dusty #1).  

Finn, like Lindsey Frost has turned to painting.  As a matter of fact, Finn also has a studio.  I found this on Instagram.

starvingdilettante

47 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I can see why Marland split them up - Lucinda had to pay a price for her many, many schemes so that viewers would feel sorry for her. Losing John was a big part of that. And she continued to be a major part of his life, which led to more drama.

 

I think the mistake was in what they did with John after he and Lucinda split up. The relationship with Iva was just so somber, and he didn't need another child. John worked best on the outside.

I agree.

Also, I think that, instead of flat-out leaving as others did,  Larry Bryggman might have begun to invest himself more heavily in theater, film and other non-soap projects-perhaps because he saw where things were headed in the corporate scheme of things and decided that it was best to diversify his talent, even if that meant acquiescing to a slightly reduced role at ATWT. Being a wily veteran, he likely foresaw some of the changes afoot, which turned out to be a wise move considering the fallout that would eventually happen.

At the risk of sounding like a Marland apologist, I think John and Lucinda were supposed to be one of those break up to make up couples.  They butted heads from the very beginning so it was never going to be continued bliss with them (or any soap couple, tbh). 

There has to be a mixture of conflict and harmony or there is no drama.  I guess sometimes Marland went a bit heavy on the conflict

One definite criticism I do have is although I think Marland wrote longing like very few could, he tended to keep his couples separated for very lengthy periods of time and sometimes it backfired, like when an actor left.  Tom and Margo (GM & HBS), Sierra and Craig, John and Lucinda.  None of those actor departures had anything to do with Marland.  They were talent who wanted to spread their wings in other directions but it was unfortunate that because their characters had been written to be separated for so long, the viewers didn't get to enjoy them for as long as they could have.

And it was problematic that sometimes the Snyders were interjected a bit too much, although in the long run, Emma and John, provided a good set up for the twist that would come when John and Lucinda eloped and Emma discovers this when Lucinda comes waltzing down those stairs and bodly stakes her claim on John.  Sorry but that was good drama. 

If any Snyder was objectionable, it was the inserting of Ellie between Kirk and Iva, which ultimately, flopped and for good reason.

13 minutes ago, JarrodMFiresofLove said:

 

Thanks. I guess that explains it all. Of course Tonio turned out to be a villain, and John ended up marrying Lucinda and changing some of his earlier attitudes.

 

What's funny is that John and Lucinda had been 'teased' from as far back as 1984.  I remember watching an episode uploaded to You Tube a few years ago where they went on a date at Diana's--it did not go well. 

Even the time when John was blackmailing Lucinda with the knowledge about Sierra over the board seat or over Lily's being adopted (he didn't know that Iva was the mother until after he and Lucinda married, I think), he and Lucinda always found ways to be in each other's orbit. 

Once, John even coerced Lucinda into having lunch with him in the hospital cafeteria, where unable to stomach the food, Lucinda just sat there and watched John eat, with a look of revulsion on her face.  I think she even mentioned the cafeteria food being on par with the company, LOL.

49 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

Montega is first mentioned in late 1984 as Lucinda learns about the revolution there and has Craig go rescue Sierra. I don't remember if he knew Sierra was her daughter at that time or not. 

 

We never saw Jacobo, I believe.

When Craig ventured to Montega for the first time, he did not know that Sierra was Lucinda's daughter.  By the time Craig was forced out of the country by hired goons (staged to protect Sierra who, unbeknownst to Craig was in hiding for her safety), he and Sierra had bonded considerably. 

I sincerely doubt that Craig would've had grief sex with Lucinda one night after they were told that Sierra had died if he knew the connection. 

Craig later learned the Sierra was Lucinda's daughter after he and Sierra had already been engaged to marry and he urged Lucinda to tell Sierra before John Dixon did  (who wanted Sierra for himself and blackmailed Lucinda with the information in order for her to give up her board seat at Memorial Hospital, which John also wanted) .

Of course, later on John, to spite both Craig and Lucinda told Sierra the secret that Lucinda had been hiding while also revealing that Craig discovered it and kept it from her as well.

46 minutes ago, JarrodMFiresofLove said:

 

Thanks. If I remember correctly they did not mention Tonio yet. He did not come to Oakdale until after Sierra and Craig were a couple. So apparently he was in Montega during the revolution but obviously survived.

Sierra wanted Tonio to walk her down the aisle when she and Craig were supposed to marry and asked Craig if it would be alright. Craig reluctantly agreed. 

Tonio had supposedly fled during the revolution (they were always talking about the junta, a term I had yet to understand the meaning of) and was in Miami in business school (or something) at that time.  I distinctly remember a scene where he mentioned Lucinda being a guest speaker at the business executive program he was involved in.

It's exhausting having a president this damn dumb.  And apparently, it's not just him. 

1 minute ago, Juliajms said:

Yes and also a sign of how strange things are.  We have such a clash of ideology going on.  We careen disaster to hope and back again sometimes in a matter of days.

Isn't that what Trumpists and Bernie Bros all wanted?  To 'shake things up'?

Is ICE collapsing?  Sure looks like it.

33 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

It would depend on who takes over that role. China and Russia won't be any better. Europe is fracturing and Merkel, the main one holding things together, is likely in her last term of office. The UN itself has no problem turning a blind eye to hate speech, bigotry, and dictatorships - they are just more subtle than the idiots we now have in office.

 

America has been severely diminished in global power over the last few decades anyway, whether it be W alienating the world, or the virulent racism and ugliness Obama faced from so many so-called leaders like Duterte. I do think Trump has sped it up, but it's going to happen no matter who or what. I mostly fear what is next to come - for them and for us.

 

At least this idiot won't have any role:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/29/un-trump-migration-agency-snub-nomination-rejected-iom

From this vantage point, it doesn't look like country is leading, the U.S., in particular looks pretty isolated.  Why does the world need a leader anyway?  That model looks antiquated now, Trump's WH has brought that into sharp relief.

It's not the nicest thing to say but at this point, I think, the best thing that could happen for global security is if the U.S. is severely diminished in its global power and reach.  

BREAKING: Trump appointee guts UN document on racism, says leaders don't have duty to condemn hate speech https://t.co/Az8QEd5a6l pic.twitter.com/YzuxMtk2aE

— The Lead CNN (@TheLeadCNN) June 29, 2018

So much easier for Putin to gain a further foothold into influence in Europe, don't you think?

WaPo scoop --> With tensions high between Trump and Merkel, the Pentagon is assessing a large-scale withdrawal or transfer of U.S. troops stationed in Germany https://t.co/f13Y4tmf2Z

— Philip Rucker (@PhilipRucker) June 29, 2018

1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

I think Taylor Baldwin (Casey's doctor ex girlfriend) didn't make much of an impression.  I don't recall her even being on the show (and my mom watched it quite a bit in the mid to late 80s) only reading that she was on for a year or so.  From watching old episodes, she made a play for Casey than tried to date Tom Hughes when Margo/Tom were on the outs with Lisa interfering to make sure that didn't happen.  The actress was cute, but lacked any sort of personality.

Recently, I watched an episode on You Tube where Taylor Baldwin tells Casey something like "You better get used to it Casey because I'm going to be around for a long time" and I thought "No you're not". 

So it's not just activists and assorted individuals who want to get rid of ICE, it's also agents within.  I guess the protests and the protestations have caused agents to speak out.

Agents Seek to Dissolve ICE in Immigration Policy Backlash

24 minutes ago, P.J. said:

 

I know Jennifer found out, and that John knew, but was Bob and Kim's ONS like "public knowledge"? 

I'm not sure about Bob & Kim--it seems as only when Sabrina showed up in Oakdale did people put two and two together.  I know that Barbara had feelings about it and everyone told her to sit on them. By this time, people were less sympathetic toward Barbara for all of the stunts and tricks she had pulled the previous year.

Bob and Susan's affair definitely became public knowledge and once it did, Susan's reputation suffered more fallout than Bob's did.  Granted, Susan was already seen in a negative light. Bob really only had to deal with Kim, while Susan had to deal with everyone, with the exception of John and Emily.

OMG at that reference to the Legend of Billie Jean. And that I've actually seen that movie.

I came across the bio of D.W. Moffett who played Kim's therapist Dr. Chapin (in the aftermath of the Doug Cummings murder) and the show should've kept him on.  He has aged nicely!

http://www.dwmoffett.com/

16 minutes ago, Roman said:

30 people shot. 5 dead at a Newspaper building in Annapolis. the "POTUS" is given his "Thoughts and Prayers".

Well, I hardly expect him to talk about how many hateful insults he has leveled at the media and the possibility that he inspired someone to act on it.