Soaplovers

I think the issues come down to writer and show compatiablity. The Dobson's fit better on GL then they did at ATWT. I think P & G had the mistaken impression that GL and ATWT were similiar shows and they weren't. Marland's writing was different at GL then at ATWT. What was Marland's greatest strength could also be viewed as a weakness as well. He could balance out several stories at the same time and going at different paces as well.. but if he left a show suddenly, things always fell apart since he created very complex and intricate story threads that very few could carry on if he jumped ship without warning. At GL, he abruptly quit and the show struggled to finish out his complex stories with two different writing teams before they settled on Pam Long.. who promptly started tying up his stories while introducing her stories. In ATWT's case, Marland suddenly died during routine surgery when stories were in mid-steam.. and his successors couldn't maintain his style.. even though there was an attempt to do so for two to three years. As I stated before, I think P & G should have done a writer swap in late 1989/1990... and put Marland over at AW (who had a very interesting vibe that I think Marland could have written... he would have had a ball writing for Iris)..maybe put Pam Long at ATWT (she seemed to love community and family.. plus she was good at writing male characters)..

Season 1 of BH was perfection, and season 2 even had some fantastic moments as well. I do admit there seems to be a void where Camille should be.. I certainly know she would have had some interesting views on Carlton LOL.

According to a montly summary from December 1979 (when the switch happened).. Joyce was seeking therapy, wrapping christmas gifts for teddy then sent them to Don and Mary.. freaking Mary out, who suspected it was Joyce. I can't totally dislike the Dobsons, they created James Stenbeck.. plus paired up Tom and Margo.

I believe that Marland's brief stint went from August/September 1979 till December 1979. So all of the clips being shown were during Marland's brief stint. From watching the clips, Betsy looked to be positioned as the main teen character. Suzanne Davidson's Betsy reminds me a lot of Lucy Deakin's Lily in the scenes shown. There was one clip of Dee and Betsy having a heart to heart, and I could have envisioned Sierra and Lily having that same talk years later. It seems to me that Joyce coming back from the dead was in the works so I'm not sure if it was a Marland idea that the Dobson's carried on or not.

For UK soaps, does the EP or the head-writer decide on story content? From reading this message board, it looks as if the EP seems to decide on the story content. From viewing several months of episodes, I actually think the cast is too large and some paring down is needed. Of course, I'm just an American caught up in the US mindset of downsizing LOL

I asked my mom last year her thoughts of the show from the late 70s through mid-80s since she was in her 20s at that time, target audience. Her fav characters were Maggie, Diana McColl, Lisa, Joyce, Natalie (Judith Chapman version), Kim, Tom, Barbara and Bob. She was bothered when Chris and Nancy were written out while she liked Betsy once Lindsay Frost started playing her. Plus, she thought Mr Big was a stupid story LOL

I always assumed Maggie was a popular character on the show. I know that she was my mom's favorite character during the early 80s.

The new cd is under-whelming to me. It seems like she is in a holding pattern in terms of her artistic pursuits. I thought that 'The Fame' and 'The Fame monster' were great companion cds, but both Born this Way and Artpop seem like rough drafts that were turned in without being edited and proof-read, imho

During Marland's brief stint as head-writer in 1979, does it appear as if Betsy would have been his 'Lily' character had he remained long-term? Plus, I wonder what kind of poor family he would have introduced onto the show in 1979.. and if he would have displaced the Stewart family.

Which producer opted to bring back Liz as the Rover owner again? I think that was a step in the right direction. A strength of the show is the large canvas of characters that are constantly rotating in and out of the front burner, which I wish US soaps would take note of. At the same time, the large canvas of characters is also a weakness because i think some characters could be cut and not hurt the overall fabric of the show. I know Stella, Tina, and Stella's mother is leaving.. but what other characters do you think should be cut? I think that annoying red headed girl Fiz (sp?) should be cut. Plus, I missed some weeks.. but why is the whole family mad at David when his wife Kylie cheated on him with his half-brother? I missed a crucial plot point.. does it have something to do with the car accident?

I agree that one of the strengths of the RH of Orange County was the constant revolving door of housewives. I think viewers will embrace the overhaul especially if it brings two or three new housewives especially if they are snarky and can cut Tamra/Vicki/Heather down to size. Still bummed Lydia quit cause I think she had some snarky one liners, but I'm hoping for some new blood and some occasional visits from lauri or jeana.

So for long-term viewers, has the show been slowly going back to the show it once was.. or is there still more work to be done? I've read some other board that has said Eileen's son Todd isn't acting like he used to act, that he is acting out of character... is that true?

Regarding the announcement of new housewives for OC? I do think that rumours of new housewives don't come in right away, that it gets reported as the season carries on. Lydia wasn't confirmed as a housewife till filming was over half-over.. same with Carlton and Joyce on RHOBH. I do recall Kyle mentioning in an interview at the start of filming for season 4 that new housewives were hired and filming.. but that she didn't know who they were yet... so it's possible that could be going on with OC.

I watched Delia's scenes today, and I sort of got a Roxy vibe.. but I think the character was fairly Delia. It was nice to find out that her son is running Ryan's, that she is still married to Roger and that both Roger/Delia were unfortunate victims of the recession. It does seem in character for Delia to revert to being dependent on the Ryan's family when things got tough in the real world, which we saw in 1980/1981, 1983, and in 1986. Delia seemed very dependent and like a lost soul.. which I think we got a glimpse of today while Roxy was a hell on wheels bitch that didn't depend on anyone.

I think the Dobson's are pretty good writers, but ATWT is a different show then GL was so their writing style didn't mesh with ATWT like it did with GL. I liked that P & G would switch up their writers, but they should have been more careful in switching writers to shows that would with the writers. I often wonder if the Dobson's should have been switched to Search for Tomorrow when the Corrington's had left to create Texas. Back on topic, I think Marland ended up writing ATWT longer then he should have and I often think he should have been switched out in 1990/1991. Just not sure who could have written the show in his place if they had opted to switch him out. What was the reason he only lasted two months or so at ATWT in late 1979?

It is said that what we hate in others is what we hate in ourselves.

Were Delia and Roxy all that different from each other? If you looked at Delia in the 70s compared to Roxy then yes.. but what about Delia circa 1986 to 1989? Was she all that different from Roxy?

I'm voting for choice #2. I do think Lisa/Nick would have been a better choice instead of Lisa w/Whit McCall and Nick w/Kim. Didn't someone previously mention that Bob and Kim were reunited by SBH on a whim? I was surprised at how many stories/characters were started under SBH that Marland carried on (i.e Sierra being Lucinda's daughter, Sierra/Craig, Shannon, plus bringing back Nancy/Chris... and starting Frannie with Steven Weber's character plus his shifty ex girlfriend Marie). While a part of me wonders what SBH would have done with these stories, I think Marland carried on quite well with these initial stories and added some great touches like Douglas Cummings, Duncan, etc. Though I think making Lily adopted by Iva was kind of unneeded even though there were some great scenes with the pitchfork.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who liked Mary Ellen Stuart as Frannie! She was nice, but also had a backbone and was intelligent for the most part. If she hadn't opted to leave the show right before Marland died, do you think the character of Frannie would have survived well into the 90s?

While David and Ellen were split (which was about a year), didn't she move into a singles community and date a handsome doctor? I think the split started when Tom King was writer, and the Dobson's kept them separated for several months before they reunited in a Christmas 1982 wedding.

I think back in the 60s/70s, writers could write nice and good characters more 3-D without being so sickly sweet. With that said, I wonder how Douglas Marland would have written for Lily had Lucy Deakins remained in the part? Based on the few episodes I saw with her version of Lily, she seemed more of a town boy then a spoiled princess.

FOr me, the show officially died in 1998 with the 'clone' Reva story.. and she basically being featured so much. Before 1998, the show still seemed fairly balanced and it still felt like GL.

Is it true that Another World had a brief ratings resurgence in the mid-80s due to Caitlin/Sally and Jacqueline Courtney's brief return? It didn't seem like the show gave Alice much to do during her year long return. I know she was a doctor, and had a brief romance with someone already on the canvas... but what do you think the show could have done to make better use of Alice? Other then a revisit of Rachel and her fighting over another man.. that is. Also, I think the Mckinnon's could have stayed on even with the return of the Frames and Matthews in the late 80s. I could see harding Lemay having a ball writing the family... i mean the mom was presumed dead for years.. MJ was basically a surrogate mother while Kathleen was the free-spirit and Cheryl was the young princess who hardly remembered her mother...plus, I could have seem Harding Lemay bringing back Ben.. or at least mentioning him.

The question isn't if Nene is right or wrong, but how Mr. Cohen will try to edit the show to make nene look like the hurt party. You know that's what will happen... just like he will be obsessed with making Kyle the hurt party on RHOBH, as well.

I remember an interview with Colleen zenk before the show ended where she remembered her first week or two of episodes involved her saying sorry to almost everyone she came into contact.. and that she was intrigued to know why she was so sorry LOL I agree that sometimes the Snyders seemed to be on a different soap then the rest of the canvas. After the first three years or so, it seemed like any attempt to connect the Snyders to the rest of the families came to an end... at least in a romantic sense. I think once Marland passed, the follow up writers were on the right track writing each of the Snyders out one by one.. but I don't think the Kasnoff's were the right replacement family. I remember Mike was created, and he mentioned a sister named Stephanie who lived in Chicago who married for money.. but I don't recall mention of Sarah nor Mark. Shame they never cast Stephanie nor the mother character (whose name was Nora, I think). I viewed Rosanna as Lily-lite, at least her first year or so on the show. I think that I preferred Tess to Debbie because at least Tess had ties to Hal and Barbara.. thus keeping some sort of tie/connection of the Snyder's to the rest of the canvas.