Soaplovers

I think the franchise needs to reorganize and revamp again.  It's just too toxic and too much focus on shade and drama.

Current producers need to review the following shows and seasons where they got the balance right.

RHONY season 3 (and I still believe kelly and her claims that Bravo made her go on the trip to Scary Island).

RHOBH  season 1 (nicr balance between trips, friendships , individual day to day stuff, and organic train wreck moments).

RHOC season 4 (naked wasted true...but still more about their lives without contrived bravo mandated gatherings.  And no fighting over airtime..jist being themselves...even Gretchen then).

RHOA...season 3 and 4.  (Loved kim exposing phadra for lying about her due date...and providing proof that she was a nurse.  Marlo and Sharee...their season 4 smackdown.).

On 6/25/2017 at 7:01 PM, GH_Girl said:

 

I always saw both Dorian and Viki as strong women, their feud didn't seem to diminish either of them too much (I watched from the mid90s to the end). Nora and Lindsay though, to me, made Nora seem weak and Lindsay seem crazy. Probably didn't help that they had ridiculous stories between them, Nora trying to give Bo a replacement child blah blah.

The first months of lindsay's stint.. both didn't like each ither..and would interact on occasion..shading one another.

There was a scene after Lindsay found out that Blair was sleeping with sam..when she said that at least with Nora..she could understand why he would go for her...and he gave her a surprised look..and she quickly said she didn't like it, but understood why he was with Nora.

To me..it seemed once Pam Long left...Nora and Lindsay's interaction went dark and toxic.  Another scene during PL's brief stint had Nora congratulating lindsay on marrying Clint..but pointing out to her that she isn't Vicki..indicating Lindsay was second choice..and Lindsay responded by agreeing and then saying unlike her, I made my move and got him to marry her.  

The Marley crazy story could have worked had it been told differently.  It made sense after getting hit and then having her face burned in the hospital fire would habe left her feeling at a loss..especially since she no longer resembled Vicky...who let's face it...rhe show always had Marley in Vicky's shadow except the last year or so of Anne Heche's stint.

I could see Marley taking Vicky hostage..but not cause she wanted Jake..but perhaps trying to remind her sister that Jake raped her..and that marrying him just proves Vicky had no loyalty to her sister...and history could have been mined with Vicky reminding Marley that Jake was her boyfriend and that she stole him from her..etc.   I always thought there was a lot of untapped story potential between Vicky and Marley that never got played or explored..imho.

Also, the last year of the show...rachel was written more like Rachel of old.  Even her regal accent kind of went away..and she regained some of the sarcasm she had pre Carl.

22 minutes ago, juniorz1 said:

Of all the cancelled soaps over the years, I don't remember there ever being an uproar like there was when AW went off the air.

Oh I agree...i was in college when it was announced.  Ironically..the show was actually starting to turn around.  The Lumina story was weird...but it was a good umbrella story with the ball..and how some of the characters were going to the foundation for help (I recall one scene with Marley taking Donna there..and stark remarking how she intrigued him..yet nothing came of that.).. as well as the grant murder case.  It made no sense at first that Paulina would confess...bit when the killer was revealed as the person she thought was her child..it made sense..cause tough on the outside Paulina was all about family...misguided as it was sometimes.

So the irony was the show was turning aeound..even gaining a few new viewers..and was starting to beef up the younger set with ally, Remy, KC, and Jakes nephew...when the show got the ax.

Passions for a lot of press and attention the first 2 or 3 years...when the show had potential.  The hamster wheel effect did the show in as well as veering too into the supernatural.

I recall the new years eve episode with Tabitha and timmy recapping the first six months of the show...and my mom was watching it that day...and she said 'this is interesting..but not my cup of tea though Timmy is adorable...and I love Juliet Mills.'

Would a change in head writer have helped the show?

One of the strengths of the show was the community feeling amongst the citizens of Pine Valley.

On the Y and R board, the strength of that show was the lack of character interactions...where people lives ran on separate lanes.

So I often wonder if Bill bell could have written AMC...with it's strong emphasis on community and all character interactions.

I recall back in the mid 90s when FX started..they showed Home and Away from 1988 for several months..and it did quite well.  I Loved Carly.. Roo was such a little schemer trying to keep her dad and future step mom from marrying..and trying to keep Frank wrapped around her finger.   And I loved that the core family was a married couple and their foster kids.

4 hours ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

@Cheap21, valid point, but I don't think the amount of women was the issue. I think just how they were crammed at us at once was the issue. There should've been a gap between introducing all the women on NYC. They should've brought in Aviva first then about 2-3 episodes later debut Heather, then about 2-3 episodes later brought in Carole. They just seemed to drop them all there at once.

 

I do find this weird though b/c the did the same thing in Miami s2, but it worked. I guess b/c we were still building relationships with the originals (Marysol/Adrianna/Lea) that it didn't mess up the show that much. 

 

OC did do it right by debuting Shannon immediately and Lizzie didn't come on till about a few episodes later. It felt organic and not force fed. 

I agree about the OC.  Lizzie was introduced during the ugly sweater party...and we had three or four of the women having small talk, laughing and having fun.  It felt organic..and not so staged either...since it was an actual party..and not a contrived party for the show.

Anne heche had the ability to make her Vicky and Marley two completely different characters...even in the ugly wig era.  Her Vicky was impulsive, emotional, and scheming...dramatic.  Her Marley was more restrained, repressed, warmer, and her voice was slightly more cultured and slightly snooty...since Marley had been raised in wealth.

How did letting 3 housewives go on RHOC after season 8 help refresh that show for season 9....yet when NY did the same thing after season 4...it stumbled?

Was it because the three that left OC were not integral to the show?  We're the replacements better?

Plus, Id rather Jill come for visits...i don't want her back full time...though she is at least married...and her daughter is grown and was game for filming.

I do think Dorinda worked because she knew the women.

It's sad that kristen fit better then either Jules and Tinaley have.

Interview with Donna Swajeski in early 1991..

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-03-31/entertainment/9101290167_1_soaps-victoria-wyndham-donna-swajeski

I f orgit about michael/stacey...grand romance it wasnt...and she explains the Red swan story suddenly ending

On 6/21/2017 at 10:25 AM, juniorz1 said:

I just thought a Cruz/Julia relationship would have seemed a natural progression.  Even Cruz/Kelly, had the show not chosen to recast.

 

I actually think Julia may have stepped aside once Eden came back.  I think it could have been a very different kind of triangle, powerful, and made more interesting by the friendships that Julia had with both Eden and Cruz.  I liked that Julia had separate relationships which each of those 2 characters.  I thought it could have been a very human, realistic triangle, where nobody hates or blames anybody.   It's what I would have written.

 

The Kelly dynamic would have been SOLID with Carrington Garland in the role.  They could have thrown them curveballs without needing a Marcy Walker return to do it (Quinn, Robert, Ric- endless possibilities).   It makes me wish that the Dobsons had actually watched at least the 1990 year while they were gone or before coming back in order to freshen up on what had been going on.  I think they may have seen and realized that Carrington was a very appealing Kelly and connected with the audience in a way they didn't realize.  They could have easily made ED Laken Lockridge so she would still be a character from a prominent family and then she would have had a character she could easily mold and make her own, since Laken was never really defined nor ever connected with the audience.   Or, if they wanted her to have major story, then bring her on as a recast Victoria Lane.  At least that character would have had miles of story to play had they brought her back and all romantic pairings would have remained open, since she was related to nobody.

 

The one actor/character I thought Eileen had chemistry with was Forry Smith's Reese.  I wished the show had gone there (they hinted at it when Reese/Jodie were first brought on).  Ironically, the Walker character I liked best (Reese) is the one Pam Long did the least with.

It seemed like they were pairing Reese with unhinged Andie..and we're starting to flesh him out when the show got cancelled.

I will still say I liked kim zimmer...on the show.  She played a convincing cop, but had Pam Long still focused on the capwells..and tied the walker family more with them...it might have not have been as bad.

I also wonder how Pam Long would have written Augusta.  Shame we will never know

I know dean/jenna was her idea...she patterned their courtship after her and her husband's with certain liberties.

What I liked with her writing of Olivia was that she wasn't some psycho obsessed with Dam.  She had a career as a dancer plus was good friends with Jenna..even helping her and Dean out when they had fights.  It was a shame that future writers d idnt bring Olivia back..since she had a child with dennis...a Cory.

43 minutes ago, juniorz1 said:

She wrote Lorna's best stuff IMO.  Fierce Lorna.  Carl's henchwoman, the affair with Matt, rivalry with Felicia- that was the Lorna I loved.  Peggy Sloane wrote a more watered down version.

Lorna still had her edge during the Felicia alcoholism story.  She got watered down due to recast more then the writing.

28 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Didn't Lemay actually mentor Marland at AW? Maybe Marland was just being grateful and giving him a job. Actually, would have been interesting if Lemay actually got to HW GL. I wonder how he would've fared with this type of show. 

Probably better then his brief stint at The Doctors in late 1981/early 1982.

He would have had a field day writing for Rita, Holly, Elizabeth, and Amanda...and hope/Alan would have been an interesting marriage...romeo/Juliet jut with an adult twist since the Spauldinga and Bauers were neighbors and didnt get along. Those were characters Marland had trouble writing..imho.

What confuses me is that I heard Donna Swajeski wrote the shoe during the strike in 1988 (which I hear was disjointed/uneven)...so I'm confused why NBC/P & G allowed her to stay on the writing team?

Also, lemay seems pigheaded and stubborn...and I think he wouldn't have worked long term had he remained in 1988..unless he shortened the scenes a bit..and varied the conversations so they wouldn't the same thing day in, day out.  Though at least his conversations were more realistic sounding then a lot of Marland's were.

In my view, the Red swan seems like a Swajeski idea..and it d idnt seem to work..other then helping to bond Rachel/Iris.  I do think Swajeski helped evolve Iris in a way that I don't think Lemay would have..imho.  Plus, she created Lorna and had her be Felicia's daughter...a genius move..imho.

Didn't Pam Long create Lindsay rappaport as well?  I think she was the one to have Lindsay and Clint marry..and it was a promising story....then all of a sudden..they broke up..and I wonder if the sudden shift in Lindsays character had to do with Pam Long leaving..and Jill being the defacto headwriter?

5 hours ago, GH_Girl said:

 

Oh god, kill me now. I can't stand her. lol From the clips and episodes I've watched, I think by 93 LK Blake was great. I think it was more the writing that crapped out on Blake than the actor not being able to handle it. Blake not having any career was strange. Plenty of women are stay at home moms in real life (me!), but on a soap there isn't much for a character to do if they don't have a job of some kind. So much of SS Blake was business woman and then LK's Blake was eventually mom Blake. And because it's a soap, the kids aren't around all that often so the mom either looks like a crappy one off having adventures leaving whoever to raise the kids, or the mom isn't around because she's off caring for the kids.

Do you think that LK being cast caused the show to shift her from business tiger to trainwreck?  I don't think SS's blake would have been threatened by Amanda, slept with Rick, or got mixed up with Ben (maybe as unholy alliance...but not the toxic thing that ended up happening).

I think LK could play cunning well, but she had more of a comedic/zany vibe that writers focused on too much down the road.  

When ss played blake, she was equal Roger and Holly...cunning like her dad and a dry sarcastic wit like her mom.  LK's blake was neither Roger nor Holly..

makes me sad heather didn't come back...just to see another Lydia vs Heather scene...but Shannon vs Lydia will do.

I love Lydia..and I hope her mama has some glitter to throw around

1 hour ago, GH_Girl said:

I'm curious how the switch from Sherry Stringfield to Liz Keifer went with Blake. I started watching in the late 90s, so LK was the only Blake I knew and I liked her a lot. But having now watched a ton of SS's Blake, I LOVE her. I imagine the shift, and especially at that point in the Ross/Holly/Blake story, would have been so hard to accept. 

There was a few weeks between SS's last day and LK's first day.  But I recall LK tried to mimic SS and it didn't work.  It took a little time for LK's to make Blake her own.

On 6/16/2017 at 2:01 PM, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

 

I'm taking it this is the start of TJ/Kelly..  I figured that started once RE left...but I guess it began a few weeks before her departure.

14 minutes ago, adrnyc said:

Oh my gosh - the writers strike. I forgot that I have to look forward to.  I watched Another World during that time when I was a teenager (and just did a re-watch of what's on YouTube recently - am Oct 88 now) The writers strike was definitely not great material on AW - I'm hoping Marland had enough of a story laid down that ATWT fares better?

All I recall about ATWT was that Marland left a complex bible but that the scans burned through it right away.

17 hours ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

I'm sure @Mr. Vixen will be thrilled to hear that his girl back!

 

 

She might make more than Kandi on RHOA, which won't be much as Kandi drove story last season, but Kandi is taking Bravo to the bank next year as she'll have RHOA and her Xscape reality show airing behind RHOA too.

Would you say Nene was a little intimidated by Kandi?

Omg just waiting for July and the OG of housewife shows to come back.  Im concerned 7 is too much on the OC...theyve always had 5 and 6 in the past...and it was always more family oriented.  I hope having 7 won't dilute the family element of the show.

Do you guys think the 1988 writer strike kind of derailed Marland a bit?  I recall as a small kid how glued my mom was to this show in 1986/1987...but kind of lost a little interest in 1988/1989 when her focus turned to Another World/Guiding Light.

Being that I don't know the contents of 1988/1989...im curious if there was a tonal change or if the cast got too big during that time.

2 hours ago, cassadine1991 said:

Would have Lemay gotten along Swajeski if they were co-HWs?

I thought he quit cause the two didn't get along.