Soaplovers

1 hour ago, victoria foxton said:

Liz's grandaughter Julia was murdered in 1984. From what i've seen of Julia on youtube she was likable and had tons of potential. Taylor Miller didn't work out as the new Sally but there was no need to kill her. I don't understand why they killed Zane either. 

Sally & Zane where killed off a couple of months before the Sin Stalker serial killings started. Both penned by Margaret DePriest

My theory on julia being killed was because the show probably thought Julia and Marley were interchangable...and since the show by 1984 preferred the loves over the Matthews..they figured offing Julia wouldn't damage the showorld long term.

My only thoughts on Sally and Zane were to showcase the tragic nature's of both Felicia and Caitlin...which really serves to undercut both characters especially Sally.  Even though Sally was recast a lot...I thought both jennifer Runyon and Mary Page Keller each made Sally their own..and both were quite popular as the character.

One Thing I wish the show had done was bring back India for a visit again before the show ended...with Philip back from the dead...beth/Alan having a child together....imagine the sarcasm coming from India.  She and Philip had a fun banter...and man could she get under Beth's skin lol

Realizing the creator of this show also created Dirty, Sexy Money...I now get some of the weaknesses of this show...dropped stories...dropped characters...delayed payoffs.

Out of all the deaths on SB...this ranks as the most memorable.

Even though Alice wasn't used well during her year long return, you have to admit she gave it her all.

It was like the show was trying to find a place for her during her first months...even testing a Donna/Alice rivalry as well as being a mentor of sorts to thomasina.  I liked that the show didn't resort to Alice/Rachel fighting over a man....but as a doctor...you'd think she'd be in the thick of things.

I think maybe 1984 was the wrong time to bring her back...I think the late 80s would have been better... the show had some stablity...and Donna S wrote her quite well during her 2 brief visits in 1989.

Not only did it kill off a viable veteran..it also wrote a complicated character into a corner.

10 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

The science-fiction crap temporarily brought mainstream-media attention to the soaps, and an influx of young, fly-by-night viewers, but I have always believed that it destroyed the genre in the long run. The mainstream media never understood our shows to begin with, and their celebrating the campiness and stupidity of the fantasy plots was akin to internet bloggers, who had never watched or appreciated DOWNTON ABBEY, cheering a stoner producer's story about Mary conceiving a child after a drunken night on a space ship with the Great Gazoo. Strangers to a show might love watching it be destroyed through ludicrous and insulting storylines; long-time fans did not. And all those kids and fly-by-night viewers who tuned in to laugh at the space aliens and clones disappeared shortly afterwards, anyway. Soaps are simply not their cip of tea. So the shows' integrity was destroyed for nothing.

 

The storyline was based on human emotion and interpersonal-relationship conflict, so it worked quite well. 

I figured the jennifer falling through the glass worked cause of build up due to her troubled state of mind, desperation to hold onto her husband, and her jealousy of his closeness to another woman.

Would  the Jennifer killing Eunice story be in the same boat..or would that have been for shock value as well?  

As much as people lament that the mid to late 80s veered away from the original concept...I do admit that I liked the near death experience arc, the wild west arc, and even the underground city arc.

In a way, the show was about diversity and presenting ideas not always popular....a lot of people believe in near death experiences...and the time travel theor has always been around...and haven't we all wondered what it would be like to live undergeound.  Shame they didn't feature anyone living in the city...a character isolated from modern day society...would have truly been a harken to the shows roots..imho

But didn't the Carrington reign stabilize the show..and led to them creating Texas due to their work on SAT?

All I know is that they created the Santells...and Sunny.

Plus, action storyline became the norm in the late 70s/early 80s...so they had to adapt.

Based on what I've read...the mid 70s was the last golden age of the show...with a multi generational approach....with Jo/Eunice still getting stories...but younger characters also got focus like jennifer, scott,kathy, liza...etc

8 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

The only time I liked SB was when the Walker family was on with Forry Smith, Sydney Penny, Eric Close and Kim Zimmer...

 

 

 

 

I thought the Walker family was a good idea...because the show needed a middle class family to balance out the Cap wells.  The problem was that they were focused on too quickly at the expense of the capwells.

That said, I actually liked Kim Zimmer better here then on GL.  She was still a little over the top, but she was also more grounded...playing a cop...and the scenes where she felt guilt not recognizing the signs that her daughter was abused when she'd been a cop were acted well.

The problem the show had was that it was too hinged on Cruz/Eden...and once Eden left...the show never recovered.  If modern soaps could watch a past soap to show what not to do....Santa Barbara should be a template of how focusing on one couple without developing long term supporting characters can kill a show long term.

11 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

What did you think of Pam Long as an actress? Do you think she could have made it on another show if she hadn't pursued writing?

Based on the clips I watched...she seemed very likable.  Not hot, but an attractive presence..full of energy.

I often thought her vision of where she wold have taken Texas was answered in my 1st stint at Guiding Light..especially in terms of the Lewis Family...and how she wrote the Reardons.

11 minutes ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

^

That's the first I've heard of this. Robin Wright didn't get along with her co-stars? If so, that would make sense why she doesn't like her time at SB being brought up.

I recall Chelsea handler had her on...and she kept going on and on about how much she loved Santa Barbara...and even finding Kelly cap well in the phone book and calling her....and Robin wright had this stunned and shell shocked look on her face.  But the kicker was how Chelsea pointed out that she got princess bride cause rob reined watched SB...and Robin wright basically said that was sad he watched the show.

22 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

I don't, either. When you are a brand new soap that hits paydirt with a couple right out of the gate...you fire one half of the couple and replace him with an (admittedly talented) actor who doesn't have even a fraction of chemistry with his leading lady? The Dobsons' logic has always eluded me on that one.

The only logical reason I can come up in regards to the recast is maybe the actor did something unprofessional that warranted his firing.  

Based on what I heard about Robin wright, I would have fired her for being a spoiled brat and being a bitch to her co workers...but I think her being forced to stay a year longer then she wanted was perfect punishment.

40 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

Do you guys think this show was better with or without Beverlee?

From what I've seen...they're almost different shows.  I think had the show been given more time..it would have found its footing and identity outside AW...like Somerset did for a time.

The final co headwriter Jill loris Hurst sounded promising..and I wonder how she would have fared had she had an executive producer who dealt in reality.

On 4/7/2017 at 6:54 PM, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

 

I agree! I just don't get what Frons/NBC saw in cancelling the show. I feel like it still had so much life in it. Yes, killing Suzy wasn't the wisest decision, but the show was still viable. We still had Jo and Stu. As long as those 2 remained at the helm, I think the show could've still been viable. 

Actually...like with edge of Night...Procter and gamble cancelled SFT..NBC had wanted to pick it up for another year or two..

On 4/8/2017 at 11:58 AM, vetsoapfan said:

 

Melba Rae (I loved her!) died in 1971, and Billie Lou Watt joined the show in 1968, although of course not as a love interest for Stu.

 

SFT had enjoyed strong ratings in the 1970s under writers like Ann Marcus (who was awful on some other soaps but well-suited for SEARCH). In 1974-5, the show had a 9.4 (!!!) rating and was very entertaining. By 1981, however, it had plummeted to a dreadful 3.4. We had had to endure terrible writers like Tex and Irving Elman, Robert J. Shaw, the Corringtons, Linda Grover, Don Chastian, etc., and the audience just could not sit through their horrid material.

 

My memory is fuzzy about the plots that were playing out in 1981, specifically, because the awfulness of the late 1970s and early 1980s all runs together in my mind. Pointless newbies like Sylvie Descartes, Zack Anders, Garth and Max Taper, etc., came and went very quickly, without much fanfare at the time. Those were not good years for our beloved show.

 

 

Decades of watching soaps has taught me that what may look good (or at least decent) on paper, can be completely destroyed by incompetent execution.

I thought the Corringtons gave SFT their last stable and decent period in the late 70s?

8 minutes ago, Mitch said:

 

I thought I was the only one who liked that storyline! Holly looked smoking hot in her leather stalker outfit..it was fun to see her be smart and slick (okay, if bad) and more fun to see people like Cassie, Van and Reva have to see they really aint perfect. I think that actually making a major character do this kind of thing was new, and actually Days ripped it off for the Salem Stalker and Marlena.  I think they did a pretty good job of setting it up and having Holly guilty about her kid, drinking a lot, etc..just typical E & B and Rauch that they went for the most ridiculous ending (ALL the characters kids had to be kidnapped..Holly was crazy to want to spend time with those brats) and skipped over some of the good parts...(they should have had Holly passing out and not remembering doing this stuff) and sloppy on other things (the infamous front door opening OUT with Dinah's miscarrage..)  And yes, Reva as the freaking hero..(should have been Ed on that bridge with her...) They also quickly skipped Holly being in therapy...and her Annie friendship...plus Holly was just back to normal after this and disappeared...(they should have had her come sane, but a tad bit bitchier and in control of her life...) It would have been fun to see her bring her pal Annie back to live with her..."( "Oh Reva you dont like it, go tell someone else, I am not impressed with Queen Katherine's opinion") and see her and Alan connect...(I dislked Raines but oddly enough he and Garret had some great chemistry..) That is when Roger's death should have been handled and Holly inheriting all his money and Spaulding stock.

They did briefly reference that in 2003 during Reva's stalking story...with evidence pointing to Holly doing it...and Holly proclaiming she was innocent...but everyone wondering if she flipped out again.

I recall the scone with fake Michelle being nervous having holly alone with her baby.  It didn't make sense that it was referenced all of a sudden..and before she was a suspect for Reva's stalking.

I did like Ed believing her...and then all of a sudden...she was determined as innocent and vanished for awhile to babysitting duties.

I thought the nursery rhyme stuff tied into her drinking...or was I wrong to assume that.

Having a castle in oakdale...so 80s.  Nice to know even Marland followed the trends..bad as they were.

Shannon seemed so unlike a typical Marland creation, only to learn that he didn't create her..and it made more sense to me.  Most of his female characters he created were kinda boring...except for Julie...until she got saddled in the vortex of the dreaded Snyders.  I always viewed Carly as a 2nd rate Julie.

I actually liked the Nursery rhyme story... and it was one of the few times all the female characters admitted that maybe they weren't the best mothers in the world  (reva's reaction was interesting when Marah admitted letting the kids go with holly because she was always having to babysit everyone and just wanted some space).

What I didn't like was the fact that Reva got involved...and was viewed as the hero.  Sadly...oneven of the more interesting results of the story was Annie and Holly briefly becoming friends before the show opted to deep six that.

1 hour ago, BetterForgotten said:

Holly is such a unique soap character (almost un-soap in many ways), there really isn't a prototype of someone I can easily compare her to. She also felt so real to me, and Garrett played the part as realistically as possible. She felt like a lot of people I knew, and I identified strongly with certain aspects of the character. 

 

To me, what's what made GL special for a long time - there were just these wonderfully complicated characters (female characters in particular) that were grounded in reality. That obviously withered away throughout the years, but it was good while it lasted. 

That could be why Marland had trouble writing for her...and mostly kept her in the background..or stagnant.

I liked Pam long/Curlees take on the character...confident yet neurotic...sexual yet could be frigid...sarcastic yet serious. 

I do think curlee/Democrats  (sp) focused more on the neurotic part of her then when Pam Long wrote her.

Itshe telling that MG was so fascinating that Pam Long insisted on writing her full time instead of the original short term stint I hear the character was suppose to have.

2 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

It's so surreal. Missy Reeves (Brennan when she was on SB) doesn't look that much older now than she did on SB, and she just turned 50!!!

Though oddly her hair better then...which is saying how bad her hair looks now on days lol

1 hour ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

 

Very true.

 

I think this show went so wrong in killing and writing off most of the Perkins and basically casting the Andrade family aside. Poor Danny never even seemed like he got a shot to be developed. And poor Santana got cast aside for the fair haired Eden. 

 

I'm beginning to wonder watching all these SB episodes was SB's primary issue was that they always has this interchangeable cast of characters. No one truly stuck around, thus giving people reason not to invest. I think also that building the show around Eden/Cruz became a problem when they left b/c none of the characters were interesting enough to keep the audience. 

When watching these early episodes....the show hit pay dirt with Amy/brick and Joe ( original joe)/kelly... but it seemed like once eden/cruz took off...no other character/couple was all that important.

I think had the show built up the supporting cast..it would have weathered eden's departure better.

I recall Pam long saying she had no idea when she started that Cruz was departing..that had she known..she would have written differently.  In her defense..she was given a barebones show with only the Cap wells as a focal family.. and I think she saw the Walkers ad the 90s version of the Perkins family.

Sadly...her efforts didn't work...but as I've said before she did come up with some ok stuff like the Lisa character...pairing Lionel/Gina together.. and she did give Santana a good send off (leaving to start over and meeting a handsome guy on the plane)

I liked the show in the early to mid 90s.  It still felt like AMC to me.

I stopped liking it in 1998 and the propping of certain characters even though the acting choices and actions of those certain characters made me question the propping.

I still liked the Natalie in a well story...it led to Dimitri/Edmund and wildwind...as well as erica/Dimitri as well as edmund/maria.  

Back then stunts like that led to long term fall out...and weren't just used for ratings stunts or Emmy stunts (ahem Brad bell..bold and the beautiful)

I guess I'm in the minority...but I think it was time for both AT&T and GL to deoart..both shows were pretty much gutted though at least ATWT still had decent lighting and sets...unlike the b movie look of GL.

If I could revive any P and God show..it would be Edge of Night.

13 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

Wow, I didn't know that. I'm sure the mail must have changed quite a lot once she became Eden, the heroine of Santa Barbara.

She was beloved so I figured once people realized she was playing Eden and not Liza that changed.

I didn't like when she came back as Liza...she had too many Eden traits...and I thought Jamie Lunar (while too young) restored Liza and even mimicked MW's mannerisms in some ways

On the subject of the Doctors... I do wonder if the current Mike's departure affected the penny/toni/Mike story...or if that was generated by the strike writers

Alice hirson....she's the actress who played Ellen D's mom in Ellen right?  I cant imagine her playing such a cold blooded person.  Fascinating