titan1978

I would argue that the show eating began when Riche was still there. Once Guza paired Sonny with Carly they were tied to everything and were being propped heavily in the writing. It just got worse with JFP.

Not to mention Julie, even as late as her solo return in the early 1990’s, still had an agency and an inherent sexiness that was very true to her earlier run. But since then, especially under the ridiculous stuff she had to do under Reilly, she has become more busybody than anything else. One of the things I liked about her initial friction with Gabi was it was at least about her family and how she felt about Nick (which was another wasted Horton). But it has morphed away from that and now it’s just done in such a way that it makes her look awful. Sometimes new dimension is added but the character still feels like the original one. Like Lucy on GH over the years- she was introduced as a sexy schemer, but soon she was BJ’s step-mother and we saw more sides to her personality. But she was still Lucy. I feel Bobbie is the same- she might not be an outright schemer anymore, but she still had a volatile temper and could be impulsive. But look at Sonny- the character that Levinson created was horrible. He ran a strip club, didn’t mind that Karen was young and hooked on drugs. I’m pretty sure he was a drug dealer back then too. But he was brooding and cute and Riche/Labine made him into the Sonny that eventually ate the show. And it was in contrast to his original version, not really a new side being explored. They white-washed him to make the character more palatable so he could stay.

Finally getting caught up on the last few days. This is the teen scene they have been trying to get on this show for Valentini’s entire run. Spencer and Trina are great, and I like his interactions with Joss and Cam too. Add me to the chorus of just kill Jax already. I don’t have the stomach for MB in the same episode as Sonny and Mike. I just can’t. Dante is always at his most charming when he is flirting. It won me over the first time with Lulu back in the day and now he is channeling that smart ass part of his character with Sam. But I am also so over Sam. I just don’t care anymore, and it is totally KM’s choices as to why. The scene with Britt defending Jason and Jax talking about how dangerous he and Sonny are is such a throwback. This might as well be JFP and Guza (except for all their faults it would be better written and seem less hollow). I will give it to Frank on one thing- the show does look good, especially since I see the ratings every week and I know the budget crunch these shows are under. It looks better than it did three years ago when everything had that blue hue everywhere. Obviously a far cry from the old days but there are times I think it looks better than the last year or so under JFP. Funny!

The only story I know she pitched that got rejected (and this was directly because of the Stone storyline and audience erosion) was Audrey developing early stage dementia/Alzheimer’s. ABC and Riche felt like it was too many depressing stories in a row. Stone was the only major story going on for the two months leading to his death, and the entire show revolved around it. I’m so glad they told the story, but I can also see why they wanted a change after. The Labines set Guza/Harris up pretty well- they did the Jason story (his accident and personality change afterwards), Bobbie’s memories of the child she gave away, Carly’s introduction, and Jax.

I wonder if Felicia’s alcoholism storyline would have been as effective if she was the original version of her character? Her becoming so hostile towards her friends was so out of character. Tina Lord on OLTL comes to mind too. It’s hard to reconcile (especially in scenes with Andrea Evans) her kind of sweet, bland young woman with what Tina would become as she became a more iconic character. Scheming and plotting and also a Lord.

Terry Lester criticized the amount of story and airtime LLB was having as Cricket in at least one published interview. He felt the show was giving her too much, and Jack had been sidelined. This was 1989, and the truth is she was on too much and had too much story at that time IMO. With Nina and Danny and her mom, she was tied to almost every story on the show, in her own stories and multiple crossover stories. And I don’t hate Christine. But it was too much.

How ridiculous that he was “in trouble” for his comments about WR. Ingo is literally out here posting COVID misinformation, anti-masking rhetoric and his comments about January 6th.

Y&R has a long history of backstage turmoil and fighting, no matter who was at the helm. If I was Wendy Riche, I would not work for any of these soaps at this point. On The Bay she has way more control over story and everything else than she would ever get in daytime at this point. Morina should be out pending the investigation. No excuses for this behavior.

That makes a lot of sense as far as PFS and DAYS. At least Kim maintained a little bit of an edge, some of that independent spirit. She wasn’t as put upon as Emma Snyder. Or Lily even. I liked that Margo also kept her sarcasm and some of her integral personality traits.

Would anyone who started watching AW after Lemay evolved Rachel even recognize Robin Strasser’s version? Especially once Iris arrives and Steve and Alice are written out. I would be shocked if Clink/Boom wasn’t Guza. He for sure pivoted Jax away from Lois towards Brenda.

Oh no doubt. I was referring to their cores being intact while Bell/Alden were there. That singular vision. They created and then shepherded them. Anything that has happened since (including some of the stuff under Alden/Smith) is not the same show. Ross is a great example. Marland’s version is the one that seemed to take hold and continue to evolve from his stories. Viki from OLTL is an interesting case. I think that she is the same person as created by Nixon, especially since Nixon started the DID storyline. The stories may not have always fit her well, but her characterization and core are pretty consistent.

Both Carly’s have contested origins- the apocryphal origin of Carly on ATWT has been that she was in Marland’s last storyline bible, but he died before she was introduced and Culliton went forward with the plans. But maybe Culliton created her altogether. Same with Carly on GH- Labine claimed credit for her, but once she arrives she is far more like a Guza character than a Labine one, because he and Karen Harris did most of her early writing.

in the Culliton thread, @Vee brought up the often repeated stories about character creation are sometimes hard to pin down. Did Marland have Carly in his ATWT bible? Did Labine intend Carly to be Bobbie’s lost child on GH? Which made me think- sometimes creation doesn’t end up defining a character. I know Marland created Luke. But to me, the Luke that was defined by PFS (the rape, the mob stuff, the Left Handed Boy and his devotion to Laura) is Luke more than Marland’s version, and who Tony Geary played even when he came back. And while Marland did not create Laura, it would be impossible to divorce her from the impulsive and damaged girl looking for love and family that he made her. Bell’s soaps had such a singular vision that even if there was character evolution (Jill, Victor, Lauren), they still felt like the same characters, they had their DNA pretty much intact from early stories to later tales. Labine may have created Carly, but she is a Guza character through and through. Thoughts?

Wasn’t Rosanna already there? And Mike? I can believe, knowing Marland’s track record, that he had notes on Carly (or at least a sister), that they were antagonistic, etc. But ultimately, she was probably very unlike what he would have done with it. Same with Labine and Carly/Jax. They may have introduced them, but Guza/Harris used them in ways I can’t imagine Claire Labine would have. Carly was such a Guza type once all was said and done. And even he had other writers carry the torch while he was at Sunset Beach and they started the AJ stuff.

It would be so easy to set up Ava’s fear- it’s a soap, show us! I would have the stalking bring back memories of Kiki, Ryan, and she would be having nightmares about him this whole time. Couple that with every time she sees Kevin she comes a little bit unglued. She was unstable before, this would make more sense if she was on the edge instead of scared. I am 4 episodes away from being caught up, and I have to say that as much as I loved Tyler, MC is great as Nikolas.

1982 is such a strange year for GH. Really shows that flying by the seat of your pants was not enough to keep the audience engaged and the show as good. And I know people hate The Ice Princess for brining science fiction and adventure to GH (and other shows), but at least it was fun. Robert and Tiffany are fun. The island was fun. Luke and Laura were fun. The Cassadines were fun. David Grey and that sword were no fun at all. And IMO, Tony Geary is at his worst there, and it took Emma Samms to finally ground him again. His style desperately needs a costar that is grounded.

I kind of like that Nikolas is being awful. The problem is that I don’t trust these writers or the show to delve into it deeper. He has reasons for his skewed parental behavior. He was abandoned by his mother and indoctrinated against her as a child, and his father was “murdered” by his mother’s low class husband Luke. He was raised a Cassadine by Stefan and Helena. Shortly after finding his mother, his relationship with her was in turmoil again when she faked her death. Then he finds out he’s been lied to his whole life and Stefan is his father (then he wasn’t again). All his family experiences are incredibly dysfunctional- Cassandines, Spencers, and Quartermaines. His child’s mother died and the baby was taken away from him. He faked his death and was gone for years. Spencer would be lucky to not be messed up, and Nikolas is equally broken and has no normal relationship patterns to fall back on.

These shows are a business, and the last thing they want is to suffer another shutdown. Once the negotiations are done with the unions, I would expect ABC to be first due to Disney, and then many other productions to follow. We will see if any of the other soaps do as well.

She finally got that summer off deal she wanted when she quit in the early 2000’s. Good for her.

Well, we can look to Frank’s own history and see if he has learned any lessons. Because OLTL should have kept Evangeline back in the day and didn’t (yes, I’m still pissed). I would hope that in 2021 they would not be as stupid. And truthfully, they have kept Curtis in the mix, he’s in a solid B story now, and the show has more Black people than ever before. Trina is easily who you build the next gen around, not Joss.

Summer vacation?

Oh there is no denying American soaps are conservative. This is a genre that used to have frank discussions about sex, abortions, illness, rape, mental illness, etc long before other shows on television. International soaps have had thriving, vibrant stories about LGBTQ and more overall representation for the same 20 years that American soaps have given the these topics lip service at best. Even DAYS, once groundbreaking (for the US in daytime)with its use of gay characters didn’t know what to do with them and wrote them out several times.

I wonder if there will be any questions about whatever happened between him and Geary on GH. I did enjoy his time on AMC, even though it was morphed into another show.

I think what is missing from the Nixon Falls story is a new character that Sonny/Mike is falling for. The Nina angle makes very little sense from her side of things. We need the classic character who is nothing like Carly or Brenda (like Victor with Hope on Y&R, Maggie with Mickey on DAYS), and an interloper that is a true enemy of Carly’s that finds out the truth, that Sonny is alive and is perfectly happy with him never coming home. You know, Ava. It complicates Sonny’s return if he is in love with someone that isn’t lying to him, and compromises Jason and Carly further because they have to deal with anything that happens between them and also with the complicated issues of Sonny staying with his new lover and the related mob issues.

There should have been a service onscreen. She actually had ties to a lot of the show still when she passed. It wasn’t like they had to bring anyone back that the then current audience wouldn’t know (although that would be cool too, but I know how networks think).