Members JER Soaps Fan Posted July 20, 2006 Members Share Posted July 20, 2006 Okay, first of all, I can't believe someone calls it 'hypocritical' in the next post after yours for my response. I don't care what you do, Ryan. that's fine. I'm not judging you. But you technically can't be 'devout' as some say Sinead is, if you disagree with key principals like abortion, birth control, free love, etc. A person can't. The Vatican has said it. And I'm sorry, but they rule this issue. It's called Cafeteria Catholicism for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WTGH Posted July 20, 2006 Members Share Posted July 20, 2006 I lost respect for her when she became a priest or something of the sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan Posted July 20, 2006 Members Share Posted July 20, 2006 Then I guess the priests who like to diddle little boys aren't as devout as they say they are either huh? Nor are the cardinals who help cover up the horrible actions that those bastards do to children and teens. Just because I disagree with the "rules" that have been set, doesn't mean that I don't respect them for it. I respect someone who believes as they are commanded to, but I have not and will never blindly follow what I am told to. I have opinions and I'm going to disagree with things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KBT Posted July 20, 2006 Members Share Posted July 20, 2006 ITA LOL, wish I would have seen that! Word Ryan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sweetness514 Posted July 20, 2006 Members Share Posted July 20, 2006 And that is why I don't consider myself Catholic anymore, but that's my reasoning for it. Some want to change the way a religion is and open their minds and make them evolve, and I think they are brave, but that's not how I think. To each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JER Soaps Fan Posted July 21, 2006 Members Share Posted July 21, 2006 Hey, it's your right to disagree with the church, as it is Sinead's. No one says you have to follow every letter of the church teachings. But you're not devout if you don't agree with church views on such key issues as abortion, euthanasia, sex and things of that nature. And to do that is to be hypocritical. And I can say that because, yeah, I'm Catholic, too. And yeah, I'm a hypocrite. And no, I'm not devout because I disagree with some things. But that's just a fact. Liberals can invade this thread and say "word" to you and agree with you for standing up to Catholic teachings but it won't change the fact that they, simply and truly, are wrong. A person either is devout or not. A cafeteria Catholic or not. This isn't about liberty. It's about facts. Facts are facts. Sinead's not devout. Fact. Nor is anyone else who disagrees with key church issues. Another fact. So I guess I respect Sinead for one reason: unlike some people who try to cry "liberty" and ignore the facts, she joined a splinter group. She's not pretending to be Roman Catholic anymore. So I guess this whole discussion no longer applies to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bree Posted July 21, 2006 Members Share Posted July 21, 2006 The Catholic Church is extremely out of touch and strict, IMHO, especially when it comes to womens' issues. I'm sorry, but no faith should think that a woman who became pregnant as a result of rape or incest must carry her baby to term. In reality, most victims who become pregnant choose to keep their children or place them up for adoption. Insisting on total abstinence for young people is a joke. Of course there are young people out there who will wait until marriage, but let's face it, the majority won't, and the last thing America needs is more out-of-wedlock children taxpayers have to care for, or more people dying of AIDS and getting sick from STD's. They also treat their priests, bishops, and cardinals the same way they think of Jesus and God, as these supernatual beings. But they are human. They aren't perfect, although they are taught to be. For a faith that thinks of marriage as probably the most sacred and special aspect of a person's life, it makes you wonder why they won't allow their priests to marry as well. What's good for the gander should be good for the goose, to reverse the saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JER Soaps Fan Posted July 21, 2006 Members Share Posted July 21, 2006 I fail to see how the churchis out of touch with things. If you make rules, it should be ADMIRABLE that you keep them, rather than 'bend to trend' on such issues as abortion and euthanasia. The same is true on premartial sex and other rules of the faith. What some people don't get is this: the Catholic faith isn't a club where you can change what you don't like; it's a faith. It's a way of life. A way of living. If a person doesn't liek something, they should find a faith that works for them. The Catholic faith is for STRONG people who CAN say no to sex before marriage and will make a commitment to their spouses, because sex, in their view, is only for procreation. So you can't say they should allow premarital sex since that goes against the procreation view. It's all linked, you see. That said, I believe I've heard that priests can't marry because their whole attention should be placed on their parishioners and not a family. Their duty is to serve and not have their attention divided. IT makes sense. Do I agree with it? No. I believe priests should be allowed to marry. But that's the church's view for now and I respect it. The same is true for the other rules. I respectthe church, actually, because the rules aren't changing. They're not fickle and 'bending to trend.' Good for them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sweetness514 Posted July 21, 2006 Members Share Posted July 21, 2006 I believe that it's also their right to say no to many things and stand their ground, and if some people really don't like what they preach, they CAN change religion or just stop being religious, or spiritual, whatever makes them happy(if that's what they want to do). The thing about priests not getting married and not being able to have sex, I don't agree with, and that is b/c if it is true that as human beings we need to have sex-to a certain degree, I know everyone's sex drive is different and there are people who can abstain- then maybe the fact that they can't have sex makes them frustrated and then the scandals happen...Something to think about. I was a Catholic for a long time, but with time I realized how much my opinions differed from the religion and my breaking point was when I got married. I had a wedding in my backyard, wich was what I dreamed of all my life. My mom, a woman who is a churchgoer and went to this church for a long time, had asked the priest to marry me and my hubby. He got extremely arrogant and was insulted to even be asked the question, and told her that it was impossible to do so outside of church and that we're not in "Hollywood", and how dare she. I believe Jesus didn't judge where a lot of priests- not all- do just that and IMO are going against what their religion and God were about. Rambling on my part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WTGH Posted July 22, 2006 Members Share Posted July 22, 2006 The Catholic Church needs to keep up with the times. A LOT of the teachings need to be tweaked to fit our society. Do you REALLY follow EVERYTHING and BLINDLY believe everything your religion tells you to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bellcurve Posted July 23, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 Wow, that's sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JER Soaps Fan Posted July 23, 2006 Members Share Posted July 23, 2006 WorldTurns, I'll admit that I don't follow everything. But I also recognize I'm WRONG for not doing that. Once again, the church is a FAITH. It has the RIGHT to determine what the rules are. There is no reason why it should 'bend to trend' on issues like abortion and premarital sex. Think about it: the Church is based on the procreation view, so that immediately x's out a reason to allow premarital sex. It goes against everything the church believes in! And then the Church's view on abortion comes from the belief that GOD HIMSELF created every child and, according to that bible verse, 'carved everyone's name in his hand before they were born' (or something to that effect). Just because abortion-minded people want a childless life gives the church no reason why its should change its views on the issue, especially believing, as it does, that GOD created every child before the sexual act even took place, and that only he takes life. So once again, no, I don't follow everything the church teaches, but I at least RECOGNIZE I'm wrong, and a hypocrite. And also, I would never disagree or challenge the church's stance on abortion or its other 'big rules,' so to speak, because I can understand why they're there, and I can understand that the faith is about being STRONG, not WEAK. Back to the sex thing again, I don't care what anyone says, nobody HAS to have premarital sex. While I'm not exactly saying I'm the purest thing in the world, I'm just saying this to buck the 'trend.' The truth is, people have waited, celebrities even, and it can be done. But only devout Catholics are going to understand why that is true, and further, understand the reason for such a commandment (1) to express true committment and passion for one's spouse by sharing their body only with one person on their wedding night; 2) to avoid reasons for recreational sex and uphold the procreation view; and 3) to strengthen the marriage bond. I think it was Catholic Mark Wahlberg (working from memory here) who said he has sex all the time and knows it's wrong but that he's 'too weak.' And that's true. ANYBODY - notably, animals - can have sex and a free-for-all on any given day of the weak. But that's not what the Catholic faith is about. It's about being strong, and being dignified, which means, in the church's view, saving one's self for marriage, celebrating life and not bucking to trend. Also, i gotta add: why do people think they need to get to force the church to tweak things. If you don't like it here in the Catholic Church, giiiiiit out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Adam Posted July 24, 2006 Members Share Posted July 24, 2006 Sinead went about it the wrong way and she paid with her career for it but I totally agree with the message she was sending and it is even more relevant today after all the sex scandals and such. I applaud her for having the courage to do what she did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott Posted July 25, 2006 Members Share Posted July 25, 2006 Im not sure if anyone has pointed this out or not, I wanted to say that i whole heartedly believe that religion and god are two separate entities. Religion, to me, is just a way that some one explains God. Now I do not follow the traditional beliefs that any religion sets forth. I have had to much bad fortune in my life for my to really believe in a set God. I believe that God should be a benevolent figure, and for "him" to have taken away so much from so many good people, in my opinion, taints his image. Im not saying that the idea of a God is a bad idea, what I guess I am saying is that the religion is a bad idea. Im not singling out any religion in this because i think that all forms of religion cause problems. I don't believe that anyone is a bad person for being a practicing Catholic, or Musleum, or Jew, or watever else is out there. I also think that you can be a spiritual person with out being a member of a church. I worship "whatever is up there" in my own way, and i would hope that everyone can respect that. I do have a seperate issue that im not sure where to put, but it sort of pertains to this. My issue is with the problem people have with saying things like "In God we trust" or "Merry Christmas". Ive grown up my entire life saying Merry Christmas to people, and not from a religious stand point but from a holiday stand point. I don't look at Christmas as the day Jesus was born. Thats just not how i percieve it. I would hope that us being from The counrty we are from that we could all accept that different holidays are practiced, but no, im told at work that i have to say Happy Holidays, because saying Merry Christmas may be offensive. I just think that that is wrong. I have Muslim and Jewish friends who do not care, and will even say Merry Christmas, its when you find the die hard religious people that cause issues. I don't kno i just felt that i had to say that. If i offended anyone im sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sweetness514 Posted July 25, 2006 Members Share Posted July 25, 2006 ITA. I know what's right for me and in my heart and I don't need a religion to tell me so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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