I'm tempted to bump that fire MAB thread that was started by DaytimeFan (I miss DF! ). I'll leave it for Alvin to do it. lol

I'm pretty sure I'll be starting a "Fire Maria Arena Bell, Hogan Sheffer, and Scott Hamner" thread soon though, don't worry.

I kind of miss DaytimeFan a lot sometimes too...

Edited July 18, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

But Jules are you only having problems with one or two stories? I think all of these storyline are problematic now. Not just the Phillip III and Adam/MJ messes. I mean the Quad, the Scobbbies, the others invovled with the gaslighting crap are all flawed and poorly told stories if I may say so myself.

Not to mention how boring and poorly planned this Mac/Billy and the Colleen board seat stuff is.

I think overall this entire show is very problematic. Some might say they're watching for scenes or for the actors, but all of these storylines are damaging in the longterm and poorly plotted and executed.

The whole show has huge problems, and it doesn't help the same group of characters are ALWAYS on the front-burner and how been for over a year when others are neglected and while some could stand to be written out.

The problems this show have are not little, they're pretty big IMO.

No, I have big problems with Adam/MJ, P3 resurrection and the quad from hell. I admit the show is not very good right now. All I was saying is that I don't think it is "the end of days". Soaps hit peaks and valleys over the years, I just don't think this is Y&R's final descent. If changes can be made to make it better, I'm all for it. But I also recognize that change is not always for the better. If they change writers again right now, they better be damn sure they have the right person.

No, I have big problems with Adam/MJ, P3 resurrection and the quad from hell. I admit the show is not very good right now. All I was saying is that I don't think it is "the end of days". Soaps hit peaks and valleys over the years, I just don't think this is Y&R's final descent. If changes can be made to make it better, I'm all for it. But I also recognize that change is not always for the better. If they change writers again right now, they better be damn sure they have the right person.

That's very true, but some think the show and soaps in general won't be around around in three years anyway, so we might as well accept what we have. I don't know what to think anymore.

Should we just accept that we're fans of a dying genre or should we as fans fight for better quality writing for our soaps?

It seems pointless on one hand, but not so much on the other. We're in very confusing times daytime-wise.

Edited July 18, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

That's very true, but some think the show and soaps in general won't be around around in three years anyway, so we might as well accept what we have. I don't know what to think anymore.

Should we just accept that we're fans of a dying genre or should we as fans fight for better quality writing for our soaps?

It seems pointless on one hand, but not so much on the other. We're in very confusing times daytime-wise.

I do think that ATWT, AMC, GH, and OLTL will probably be gone in 3-5 years. I don't think we should just accept it though. There could be a rebirth, even though it's very unlikely. I think B&B (due to international distribution) and Y&R could live longer than 5 years. We are in a place that GH was 5-8 years ago. The one thing saving Y&R is a stable cast, but notice that is now in jeopardy. What happens next is critical. I guess my feeling is giving up is not an option, but I don't want to trade one mediocre writer for someone who will screw us over even more (and yes, it is possible). It also seems to me a bad sign that unemployment is at nearly 10%, but people are not tuning into soaps. I wish the networks would get more aggressive with their marketing right now.

Someone at SONY needs to be on an active search for the right writer for this show, like have a few people submit bibles and see which one perhaps works best. I don't trust the Bell's to do this, I mean look at the current state of both Y&R and B&B, these people lost their eye for talent when William J. Bell died.

This current regimes doesn't learn from its problems, IMO, they just ignore them. While I don't want them to be replaced with worse writers, I just optimistically want them to be replaced by the right people.

I think it's time SONY and Steven Kent used their majority share of this show and forced some change.

At this point, I don't think anything will be enough to significantly bump soap ratings though, but we can only hope.

Edited July 18, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

At this point, I don't think anything will be enough to significantly bump soap ratings though, but we can only hope.

Even if Y&R could stabilize in the mid 3's I think it could live a long time. I just fear they are going to gut the core characters like GH did several years ago. If that happens I believe we are seriously screwed and will suffer GH's fate. I will put up with a lot of mediocre writing, but when I turn on that screen Jack, Nikki, Victor, Jill and Kaye best be in the mix with a nice side of Phyllis, Sharon, Nick, Ashley and Victoria. The core and legacy characters are what get me through the bad times. When vets are gone, people seem to tune out the second they don't get the couple or story they want. I can only thank the soap gods MTS resigned because if she hadn't, I wouldn't debate the use of the term "end of days".

Ugh, I just read a spoiler that's pissing me off, and I'm not even going to wrap it in spoiler tags, because what's the use?

This Phillip III storyline was clearly a vehicle to prop Cane. According to a new spoiler, Jill asks Michael to update her will to include her THREE sons. I can understand adding Phillip III, since he is her real son and they missed out on so much time together. But why is Jill keeping Cane in there? Regardless of Phillip III's scheme, Cane is not her son and was an impostor who gave her false hope that he was her son. She should disown him and severe all ties with him, and it seems like she's forgiving him quite fast for this crap.

This whole storyline has been about Cane, it's really sickening. They did a retcon and purposely made Phillip III such an assh*le for THIS?!?!

Ugh, I just read a spoiler that's pissing me off, and I'm not even going to wrap it in spoiler tags, because what's the use?

This Phillip III storyline was clearly a vehicle to prop Cane. According to a new spoiler, Jill asks Michael to update her will to include her THREE sons. I can understand adding Phillip III, since he is her real son and they missed out on so much time together. But why is Jill keeping Cane in there? Regardless of Phillip III's scheme, Cane is not her son and was an impostor who gave her false hope that he was her son. She should disown him and severe all ties with him, and it seems like she's forgiving him quite fast for this crap.

This whole storyline has been about Cane, it's really sickening. They did a retcon and purposely made Phillip III such an assh*le for THIS?!?!

It happens Monday.

It happens Monday.

This show hasn't been good enough for me to watch day aheads anymore, so she forgives Cane by MONDAY?

CarlD2 brought up an awesome point about this regime and its writing for most of these characters:

They are unable to write for so many characters, and many of those they do write for, they ruin. If their solution is to kill them off, this will be a very empty cast within a year. The waste of potential which these supposed guardians of Y&R history have built up is staggering. The flawed Phillip return, ruining Adam, turning MJ into some cartoon...

Edited July 19, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

This show hasn't been good enough for me to watch day aheads anymore, so she forgives Cane by MONDAY?

Basically, but he doesn't know that. She summons Michael to change her will to include all her 3 sons, evenly. She says no matter what that she'll always think of him as her son.

We have seen so little of Jill's feelings in this storyline that I can see where it seems like propping. One of the reasons I have not hated Cane the way many do is because he's always been nice to Jill and genuinely cared about her. I can understand why she doesn't want to cut him out of her life, even if this probably means whining from Billy (who has never cared about Jill) about why she loves her fake son more than her real one.

Basically, but he doesn't know that. She summons Michael to change her will to include all her 3 sons, evenly. She says no matter what that she'll always think of him as her son.

GAG me now! This Cane propping has gotten ridiculous.

How stupid has Jill gotten? She should be an ice queen bitch with a grudge against this impostor.

It's like the idiots in charge believe Goddard is so vital to this show's survival, it's sick.

Edited July 19, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

I don't see it as simply propping Cane--I think we all agree it's the complete and utter writing failure with undoing history of this nature along w/ certain acting choices is driving this total disconnect from this storyline. I think all around it's just a mess (I'll never buy the Delia storyline retcon) and Cane's character has been damaged along w/ the rest of them. Ahhh none of it makes sense anymore!!

OK, on another note--what will? Jill is flat broke and working as a manicurist (though we only saw her there once she's been home every day since) b/c she has nothing left b/c she had all her $$ in one account (yea ok) and she's including 3 sons in her will?? I guess it could be her 1/2 of the Chancellor Estate but cmon!!!!!

Edited July 19, 200916 yr by loveshery&r

I don't see it as simply propping Cane--I think we all agree it's the complete and utter writing failure with undoing history of this nature along w/ certain acting choices is driving this total disconnect from this storyline. I think all around it's just a mess (I'll never buy the Delia storyline retcon) and Cane's character has been damaged along w/ the rest of them. Ahhh none of it makes sense anymore!!

OK, on another note--what will? Jill is flat broke and working as a manicurist (though we only saw her there once she's been home every day since) b/c she has nothing left b/c she had all her $$ in one account (yea ok) and she's including 3 sons in her will?? I guess it could be her 1/2 of the Chancellor Estate but cmon!!!!!

They mention that's all she has.

Ugh, I hope the next writing regime re-writes this sh!t and sends Cane back to Australia, happy memouries or not.

I could like Cane, if they kept him away from Lily and the Chancellor's. I have no intention of seeing an almost 40 year old being adopted into the Chancellor fold and pining to be with Saint Lily, even though this Phillip III retcon has been horrendous and unbearable to watch.

Edited July 19, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner