2 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

Michael Filerman meddling, bringing in EP’s/writers lacking soap experience (John Surnow of Miami Vice and The Equalizer for FC, John Romano of Hill Street Blues and yes Cop Rock lol for Knots. How did Romano convince Filerman and/or Jacobs he was a Steve Bochco prodigy again?), killing off popular vixens (Melissa on FC, Linda on Knots), the shows littered with new characters with zero potential and who no one cared about, character damaging plots (ie Richard kidnapping and gaslighting Angela, Claudia being responsible for Steve’s death), and desperate rewrites in vain to correct course.

Wasn't the Claudia story done by the previous showrunners?

11 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Wasn't the Claudia story done by the previous showrunners?

The final episode of season 12 was such a tonal shift that I feel like the new showrunner had to have had some say in it. Not just the shift to the Steve story but Karen the vigilante was so strange.

32 minutes ago, Chris B said:

The final episode of season 12 was such a tonal shift that I feel like the new showrunner had to have had some say in it. Not just the shift to the Steve story but Karen the vigilante was so strange.

You may have a point. The Karen story was insane and they did carry it on for a few episodes. The Claudia story I'm less sure on because they seemed to try to backtrack almost immediately, taking her from a cold bitch to a suicidal victim.

On 10/27/2025 at 12:32 AM, Vee said:

I do think Patrick Petersen grew up to be uncomfortably hot, and a lot of people knew it. They wasted him not doing more, and I do look fwd to seeing his future years on the show. For me personally though I think the late Steve Shaw was cuter and considerably underrated, albeit at best 'naturalistic' an actor. Sometimes he could do really well as he got older, sometimes not, but he was always genuine. That counted for a lot with the kids on the show.

I started watching as a teen around season 10, and I had the hugest crush on Patrick Petersen. Even then, I found it perplexing that they couldn't come up with more for him to do. I feel like the show had a hard time, besides Nicolete Sheridan, in grooming the younger generation for big stories. Michael, Olivia, and Eric were all positioned to attract a younger audience as the years went on.

17 hours ago, Khan said:

Yeah, S13 is a real bitch is to get through. None of the stories that the new team introduced worked, characters like Claudia, Paige and Kate didn't sound or behave like themselves at all; the Brian Johnston storyline spun so out of control that I still can't make heads or tails of it; and the biggest sin of all: wasting Marcia [!@#$%^&*] Cross.

As @DRW50 says, it's a blessing in disguise that JVA/Val was virtually ignored the entire season, lol.

One of the biggest headscratchers was building up the character of Steve Brewer as Claudia's son and as Greg's brother/nephew. So much potential, and then they just randomly killed him off.

1 hour ago, 1974mdp said:

I started watching as a teen around season 10, and I had the hugest crush on Patrick Petersen. Even then, I found it perplexing that they couldn't come up with more for him to do. I feel like the show had a hard time, besides Nicolete Sheridan, in grooming the younger generation for big stories. Michael, Olivia, and Eric were all positioned to attract a younger audience as the years went on.

I feel like there was a time, I think season 10 or 11 where they had built up a strong younger generation but it went nowhere. For a short while you had Paige, Harold, Linda, Michael, Olivia and a couple others. I thought the chemistry was strong within the group as well. They could've easily done a Melrose Place style spin-off.

1 hour ago, 1974mdp said:

One of the biggest headscratchers was building up the character of Steve Brewer as Claudia's son and as Greg's brother/nephew. So much potential, and then they just randomly killed him off.

I think that's because they realized (too late) that Lance Guest was just wrong for that role.

I could quibble about how Steve was introduced - a granola-eating hippie who lives out of his van? Seriously, KNOTS? - but in order for such a crazy storyline to work, he needed to be played by someone who was very dynamic; a little earnest at first, sure, but he definitely needed smoldering good looks, with just the right touch of mischief. Guest had none of that.

2 hours ago, Chris B said:

The final episode of season 12 was such a tonal shift that I feel like the new showrunner had to have had some say in it. Not just the shift to the Steve story but Karen the vigilante was so strange.

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

You may have a point. The Karen story was insane and they did carry it on for a few episodes.

Not to mention the whiplash we got from the Brian Johnston storyline, which went from "Brian likes to videotape his sexual encounters (and Linda's on one of those tapes)" to "Brian has disappeared and is wanted by the authorities". Wait, what, lol?

And Karen's "Walking Tall" storyline - with the needless twist of Jason being in that car - definitely felt tacked on, as if they were afraid they didn't have a juicy enough cliffhanger to run in ads. The Lechowicks left the show in such a mess, lol.

17 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

I’m glad S14 at least wrapped up everything, but it often feels more than anything else like a love letter to S11-13 with other old references thrown in and Diana’s return. I mean I was fine Tom Ryan being back, but we also had Nick and then also Vanessa for what superfluous reason. The fact that Nick and Abby had some kind of history was a bit unbelievable (but then again Abby did once have an affair with Richard).

I agree. I understand that the budget for S14 was peanuts, but I do believe more of an effort should've been made to tie up not just the past 1-2 seasons, but the series overall.

As I've said in the past, Karen could've called Richard to help defend Mack on the murder charges (which would've laid the groundwork for a hookup and HEA for Richard and Anne). Lilimae could've returned for a few episodes to help Gary look after the twins after Val's disappearance (and make passive-aggressive comments about Kate). Gary could've crossed paths with Ben while looking for Val in Florida (and as the two search for her, they bury the hatchet). Cathy could've easily popped up again (this time, in an abusive relationship with Nigel Treadwell, whom she met while on tour in Europe). And even though it would've been a long shot, maybe - just maybe - they could've persuaded Constance McCashin to make a few appearances as Laura's spirit/Greg's conscience as he deals with the task force stuff.

@Khan As a Diana stan, I loved seeing her return but I agree that it was disappointing to see them not really explore the past beyond that. Your suggestion of seeing Lilimae again would be amazing. I hate we didn't at least get her for the reunion. Another easy solution for season 14 would've been to finally bring Lucy on full-time. I think she could've easily filled the role of Vanessa and had the show gone on longer, that would give Gary more reason to stick around since JVA didn't plan to return.

59 minutes ago, Chris B said:

@Khan As a Diana stan, I loved seeing her return but I agree that it was disappointing to see them not really explore the past beyond that. Your suggestion of seeing Lilimae again would be amazing. I hate we didn't at least get her for the reunion. Another easy solution for season 14 would've been to finally bring Lucy on full-time. I think she could've easily filled the role of Vanessa and had the show gone on longer, that would give Gary more reason to stick around since JVA didn't plan to return.

That's an interesting point. I wonder why they never brought Lucy on full-time especially in the later seasons when Dallas didn't seem to know what to do with her. It would have been a great way to cause conflict between Val and Gary in a very natural way. Lucy could have stirred up all kinds of potential trouble.

1 hour ago, Chris B said:

Another easy solution for season 14 would've been to finally bring Lucy on full-time. I think she could've easily filled the role of Vanessa and had the show gone on longer, that would give Gary more reason to stick around since JVA didn't plan to return.

11 minutes ago, 1974mdp said:

I wonder why they never brought Lucy on full-time especially in the later seasons when Dallas didn't seem to know what to do with her. It would have been a great way to cause conflict between Val and Gary in a very natural way. Lucy could have stirred up all kinds of potential trouble.

I think there were two reasons why they never brought Lucy on full-time: one, having Gary and Val's grown (or nearly grown) daughter around would've aged Gary and Val (even though Gary and Val were still teenagers when they had her); and two, DALLAS characters in general never fit in with the rest of the KL canvas.

Still, if Lucy HAD come back to Knots Landing at some point, I could see going to work as Paige's gossipy assistant at the Sumner Group (as a favor to Gary, of course, lol) and maybe even becoming the object of both Mort and Bob's affections (with schlumpy Bob actually winning out over smarmy Mort in the end).

1 hour ago, Chris B said:

Your suggestion of seeing Lilimae again would be amazing. I hate we didn't at least get her for the reunion.

I would much rather have watched a storyline where Val realizes Lilimae has Alzheimer's Disease and moves her back into her and Gary's home than that crappy story about Michael Woods co-writing her latest book while trying to sleep with her (or whatever).

And maybe it's just me, but I feel like Diana's return in S14 was the PERFECT time for Karen to learn her daughter was involved with another woman.