This was posted on HuffPost by Sam Stein. It contains a link to a video clip:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/14/k...v_n_126280.html

When Karl Rove is saying your political ads have gone too far, you know you must be doing something dishonest.

The former Bush chief strategist, appearing on Fox News Sunday, said that John McCain had stretched the truth in his recent round of attacks against Barack Obama, in the process opening up the Arizonan to a round of effective counter-attacks.

"McCain has gone in his ads one step too far, and sort of attributing to Obama things that are, you know, beyond the 100-percent-truth test," said Rove. "Both campaigns ought to be careful about... there ought to be an adult who says: 'Do we really need to go that far in this ad? Don't we make our point and get broader acceptance and deny the opposition an opportunity to attack us if we don't include that one little last tweak in the ad?'"

McCain has received a heaping dose of criticism late this week for launching a series of advertisements that could be categorized as dishonest if not downright lies. The Obama camp, in a memo to reporters Sunday morning -- entitled a "Dishonorable, Dishonest Campaign" -- highlighted a number of these pieces. Joe Klein, of Time magazine called one spot the "sleaziest" he had ever seen. Paul Krugman of the New York Times, defined the episode as a "blizzard of lies." On Sunday, the St. Petersburg Times, ran an editorial entitled: "Campaign Of Lies Disgraces McCain," while the Chicago Tribune's Steve Chapman, wrote that "to McCain the truth is expandable."

That Rove would acknowledge truth in these complaints is somewhat remarkable. The man known as Bush's brain made a reputation of slinging mud at the opposition and waiting for it to stick.

But it should be noted, Rove's complaints with McCain's strategy was not that it had elicited the condemnation of groups like politifact or factcheck.org -- "You can't trust the fact check organization in all respect," he said. "They are human beings and individuals; they have got their own biases in there." Rather, he argued that by exaggerating so wildly, the Republican presidential nominee had opened himself up to political attacks.

"They don't need to attack each other in this way," he said. "They have legitimate points to make about each other."

UPDATE: Sure enough, the Obama campaign weighs in... gleefully.

"In case anyone was still wondering whether John McCain is running the sleaziest, most dishonest campaign in history, today Karl Rove - the man who held the previous record - said McCain's ads have gone too far," said Obama campaign spokesman Tommy Vietor.

Here's a Paul Reiser blog that pretty much sums up the silliness:

Yeah -- You and Whose Army?

So everyone's talking about the nasty spike of nastiness in the presidential race -- a spike brilliantly orchestrated by the Republican machinery -- and Republican John McCain takes a moment to point out that even this is Barack Obama's fault.

Y'see, all the crap being thrown at Obama -- the fear-mongering, the half-truths, the full lies -- all the character assassination hurling Obama's way, is in fact, his own doing.

"I think the tone of this whole campaign would have been very different if Senator Obama had accepted my request for us to appear in town hall meetings all over America," the Senator from Arizona tells us.

Am I just losing my friggin' mind? Seriously. I keep looking around the room to see if I'm living in some suddenly altered state where everything we know is now called the opposite, and nobody notices. Or can stop it.

"I wish I didn't have to take your lunch money, but you should'nt of hadda brung it."

We're in the 3rd grade again. The skinny, smart kid who just moved in to the neighborhood is getting roughed-up by the !@#$%^&*] bully. The kid who hits you in the head with your hand and says, "Why're you hitting yourself? Why're you hitting yourself?"

"Um, actually I'm not. You're hitting me."

"You calling me a liar?"

"No, I'm just pointing out that..." SMACK!

"Why're you hitting yourself?"

And there seems to be no one to appeal to. There're no grown-ups around when you need 'em. No one to step in and say, "Alright, that's enough now. We don't do that here, fella." And in the absence of any authority, the !@#$%^&*] gets to keep doing it.

"Why're you hitting yourself? SMACK! Why're you hitting yourself?"

From the few minutes of the GOP convention I could stomach watching, all I could think was that Giuliani and Sarah Palin were doing some big-person, lethal version of "I know you are, but what am I?"

America: "Well, respectfully, Governor Palin, it could be argued that you are, in fact, relatively inexperienced."

Her: "I know you are but what am I?"

"Hm? No, perhaps you misunderstood. We are talking about you."

"I know you are but what am I."

"Well, Governor, just listening to your speech, you seem awfully caustic."

"You are."

"And, frankly, a little bitter."

"You're bitter."

"I mean, where's your sense of humility?"

"I'm rubber, you're glue. It bounces off me and sticks to you."

"My God - you're... dangerous."

"I know you are, but what am I?"

Maybe that's the problem. Obama treats us like adults, and McCain's team treats us like children.

Obama seeks to inspire and raise us as a nation. McCain's people want to reduce us to infants.

Obama asks us to be deep. And courageous.

McCain prays that we're simple. And cowardly.

Now everyone is calling for Obama to "get angry." "Get out there and frown this way, curl your lip that way, and clench your fist like so." And, I don't know..... That'd be cool. Sure. But I don't think the fix can come just from him. There's only so much the guy can do. It's going to have to be us. I don't know what exactly we need to do, but I know we'll do it. I have to believe -- I mean I really have to believe we're big enough, strong enough and smart enough to reclaim what's ours. I love my children too much to let the assholes take over the school yard.

Did you see McCain has Ohio? I just saw a poll on TV that showed a much larger spread than what is currently shown at RealClearPolitics. Ohio is a big one. And so is Florida... and Florida is leaning McCain. It will be very interesting to see what happens in November...

If you click on Ohio (on realclearpolitics.com) it will have all of the polls for that state. They are very fair and balanced. They use all polls for the national average and all polls for each state to calculate the average. IA FL and OH are huge...so is CO!

Edited September 14, 200817 yr by Casey008

This was posted on HuffPost by Sam Stein. It contains a link to a video clip:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/14/k...v_n_126280.html

Did you see This Week this morning? Some are finally starting toc all McCain out on this crap.

Thanks for posting this article.

This was posted on HuffPost by Sam Stein. It contains a link to a video clip:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/14/k...v_n_126280.html

Thanks for that, Wales. I did watch it but I noticed that the Huffington Post (surprise, surprise) sort of tilted the article a bit, making more out of what Rove said than really ought to be. They focused solely in the article's copy about McCain while ignoring Obama's "foot in the mouth" moments of the past week or so. More than half the video, Rove spoke about Obama's spots, particularly the "McCain Can't Email" foolishness. It seemed to me the line about McCain stretching the truth was Rove's half-hearted attempted to offer "fair and balanced" commentary with a relatively off the cuff statement about how BOTH campaigns should avoid going to far, etc.

The Huffington Post is widely regarded as a left-leaning rag and I'm not surprised they would make a bigger deal out of Rove's commentary than ought to be. Come on... it's KARL ROVE, for crying out loud -- does anyone really think he's gonna honestly slam McCain all that hard?

The Huffington Post is widely regarded as a left-leaning rag

Most definitely!

LOL..IA, I would expect Michael Moore to slam Obama before Rove would slam McCain.

Edited September 14, 200817 yr by Casey008

Obama would have the edge in an electoral college tie. (if the new congress remains with a Democratic majority)

What Happens if there is a Tie in the Electoral College? Read here.

Edited September 14, 200817 yr by Casey008

Did you see This Week this morning? Some are finally starting toc all McCain out on this crap.

Thanks for posting this article.

The only Sunday morning show I used to watch was MTP and with Tim Russert gone there is no point to it for me. I do read the liberal summary of the Sunday shows because of the interjected humor. I'm actually reading it right now since the football games that are on are you know......with no more Georgia Frontiere I have no reason to not like the Rams anymore so they're off my teams to watch lose list....but you know they pretty much suck anyway.

Here's a little bit about McCain and the internet that is part of the summary I'm reading:

Their claim is that McCain is simply unable to use a computer because of his POW injuries, citing a March 2000 article in the Boston Globe that states, with no supporting evidence...

McCain's severe war injuries prevent him from combing his hair, typing on a keyboard, or tying his shoes.

Of course, this directly contradicts what McCain and his campaign manager have said. McCain told the New York Times in July:

I am learning to get online myself, and I will have that down fairly soon, getting on myself. I don't expect to be a great communicator, I don't expect to set up my own blog, but I am becoming computer literate to the point where I can get the information that I need.

Campaign manager Rick Davis said in June that McCain would

grab Blackberrys from reporters and tool around on the internet:

Very interesting Wales.

McCain's campaign manager scares the sh!t out of me by the way. He and Karl Rove IMO must share the same mother, they look so alike to me.

I think the media is overplaying McCain's so called rise to the top. IMO I think people are underestimating new voters, and they IMO will help Obama win in November.

The only Sunday morning show I used to watch was MTP and with Tim Russert gone there is no point to it for me. I do read the liberal summary of the Sunday shows because of the interjected humor. I'm actually reading it right now since the football games that are on are you know......with no more Georgia Frontiere I have no reason to not like the Rams anymore so they're off my teams to watch lose list....but you know they pretty much suck anyway.

Here's a little bit about McCain and the internet that is part of the summary I'm reading:

So they lied about that as well.

This 'lying' list of theirs it getting too long to keep track of.

And if the McCain campaign is so sure of Palin......why did they announce yesterday that they will hold joint campaign rallies?

Yes, The Rams suck moose ass. I mean.......they just stink.

Straight talk about universal healthcare..

Message from a doctor.

Very interesting Wales.

McCain's campaign manager scares the sh!t out of me by the way. He and Karl Rove IMO must share the same mother, they look so alike to me.

I think the media is overplaying McCain's so called rise to the top. IMO I think people are underestimating new voters, and they IMO will help Obama win in November.

You have heard nothing of the youth vote, the Latino vote, Catholic, Jewish vote and the number of newly registered Democratic voters.

All you hear about is the white, working class vote, the male vote and the white female vote.

Very interesting Wales.

McCain's campaign manager scares the sh!t out of me by the way. He and Karl Rove IMO must share the same mother, they look so alike to me.

I think the media is overplaying McCain's so called rise to the top. IMO I think people are underestimating new voters, and they IMO will help Obama win in November.

Michael, (in response to your signature) McCain opposed the GI Bill that he voted against, because it gave incentive to leave the military to pursue educational opportunities. McCain made it known that he would rather back a bill that gave incentive to stay in the military. You should have watched the 9/11 Presidential Forum. It was about national service, Obama and McCain both gave their stances.

You have heard nothing of the youth vote, the Latino vote, Catholic, Jewish vote and the number of newly registered Democratic voters.

All you hear about is the white, working class vote, the male vote and the white female vote.

You hear about the white vote, because they do not necessarily vote along a party line. They are the "swing voters". African-American, Latino, young voters, and the Jewish usually vote for the Democratic candidate.

Edited September 14, 200817 yr by Casey008

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/nyregion/14koch.html?em

Endorsement of Obama Overflows Koch’s In-Box

Here's a Paul Reiser blog that pretty much sums up the silliness:

Yeah -- You and Whose Army?

Great column.

Didn't know Paul felt so strongly.

This is the ground swell that you don't read or hear about.