Barack Obama Elected President!

[George008]

Me too.

Again, I think you are missing my point. People will hurt with or without guns. I know, of course, guns are not allowed on planes. This proves my point that people find other ways.

I never said that! I have stated several times why I vote Republican. I can assure, its not just about guns for me. I just added it into a long list of reasons on why I vote for the GOP and we have been discussing guns ever since.

Cool.

Kind of a cynical outlook. I think McCain will be even more independent on his own, he has shown independence several times amongst Republicans in congress.

Who do you include in the Evangelistic wing of the party? Who would have the great power to influence McCain's decisions?

Thanks, no one has replied to my question about what they feel the lies are. I would rather hear what you think the lies are than an article with someone else's opinion. But that's ok.

[George008]

You have, that is the reason I brought up this "self-serving" argument when you said I was selfish for not being passionate with gay rights.

That is exactly my point. Bush did not increase taxes on the upper income bracket to fund the refunds. Bush sent refunds to people that actually paid taxes into the system. He did not play class warfare, and pit the classes against one another.

Funny to me that Obama, claims to be the great "uniter" while he proposes splitting the country among lines based on levels of income.

Bush did not issue refunds for political expediency.

[Greg's GL]

CHOMP!

I understand your point. People will find other ways. Fine.

OK, you're right. You didn't say that verbatim. It's not just about guns, but it is one of the reasons, isn't it? And guns are a pretty controversial issue, so I'm not surprised that we've been on this topic ever since.

Well, no more cynical than your outlook of a potential Obama Presidency. You have to admit that. The influence would come more from the party base than one person, don't you think? The fundamentalist Christian conservatives that were ho-hum about McCain's nomination before SP came on board. She's the one that got the Evangelical wing invigorated and I argue that she'd be one of the main people influencing decisions that pander to that base.

OK then. The "Lipstick on a Pig" commercial is one example. The other is the sex ed ad for Kindergarteners.

[Greg's GL]

I never said that. I said you should not be so self-centered about the constitution issue because one day it may come closer to home than the gay rights issue has.

And Bush promised to be a "uniter, not a divider" when he came to Washington 8 years ago! And he divided the country with wedge issues! Com'on now. He has been the most divisive President in history. And he did issue refunds for political gain IMO.

[George008]

I am opposing Obama mainly because of his proposed plans and his voting records. Not so much, what I "think" he will do once in power. (your argument against McCain) I am basing my opposition on what he says he will do or has already done...

Gottcha.

[George008]

Point taken and understood. I just saw "self-centered" and "you" (meaning me), in the same sentense and I went wild. Sorry..

I not Bush's biggest fan, but I am not one that hates the man either. He has been ok and bad at the same time IMO. Bush is a whole other subject. Personally, one I dont want to get into.

Obama has been very divisive in his short tenure in the Senate as well.

[Greg's GL]

I am not voting against McCain based on assumptions, hyperbole or conjecture. I am voting against him for the same reasons you are opposing Obama.

I think that's been pretty clear from my debates here with you on this thread. Thanks for the insult though. I thought we were having intelligent conversation. I guess not.

[George008]

I didn't mean that as an insult. I was just referring to this comment ^. You were thinking the Evangelistic Wing of the Republican Party will have him towing a line. They haven't done so in the past...so I assumed you thought otherwise..without going by his record..

I would consider your comment to be somewhat of an assumption. Sorry if you didn't mean it that way..Again, I didn't mean it as an insult.

[Roman]

Well, maybe those who received huge financial returns from the meltdown Monday will send me some of the millions they received.

No? They won't?

Oh. But I'm supposed to look out for them. I have NEVER had anything against anyone making their way in this country. But please don't try and tell me that Obama is playing class warfare when McCain's plan gives tax cuts to corporations while theys crew the working person.

And before you ask me why I think this.....I have said it before, so please refer to previous posts.

[Greg's GL]

Well, OK. Perhaps I stated that wrongly.....

Why did he make the rounds at all the Christian think tanks when he got the nomination? Why would he do that if their interests were not important to him?

[Wales2004]

Not only is that ad lying but it also is vile since it depicts Obama as if he's some sort of pervert.

The first rebate checks from Bush came from the surplus that grew under Clinton.

The recent stimulus checks will be coming from taxpayers again but right now it's part of the deficit.

It's great to get a check since most people aren't stopping to consider that the money is coming from their taxes.

In order to pin class warfare on Obama, you'd have to say that he came up with the system in the first place which he did not. In order to say the Republicans have clean hands in this, you'd have to say that they've been fighting all along to make sure that people are on the same level and are afforded the same opportunities, equal pay for equal work, etc., which they have not.

Here's what I have to say about George W. Bush and dividing the classes.....Hurricane Katrina.

[Greg's GL]

Y'all.... I wish we lived closer so I could buy you a beer!

[Wales2004]

Greg's GL.....so you provided examples of McCain's lying ad......now what?

[Roman]

See, I don't know if you should have said that. You see, the conventional wisdom is that GWB was blamed for the hurricane hitting, and he didn't force those people to stay.

See, I have never said that, and anyone who thinks that is truly FOS.

I blame him for the RESPONSE to the hurricane. And, by what is happening right now in Houston, I can say one thing.....

Their imcompatance is consistant.

[George008]

Now Casey understands all of the references to McCain's lying ads...