James E. Reilly: Freak or Visionary?

[bellcurve]

To some(especially the John/Marlena fanbase) Possession was a love story for John and Marlena. Even to this day, I felt like possession was a great idea to keep viewers interested in what would happen tomorrow. And all the while you have this story(which, to many, was a love story), you have all these others love stories going on at the same time.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[David V]

Oh no doubt, outlandish stories were nothing new on Daytime before JER came along.

However... the simple fact is, that prior to JER's first run on Days, these were, for most part, the exception. These days, it's almost the rule on the soaps to be sensationalist, outlandish, over-the-top and often downright stupid.

Those who say that JER is to blame, in part, for the destruction of Daytime as we know it are right in saying so. No doubt, his first run on the show was certainly better executed than the second (i.e. told in a more "serious" tone as opposed to the heavily cartoonish second run). But the success of it all had a damaging impact on the credibility and viability of soaps in the longer run.

Because soaps used to strive for credibility and respectability in the wider world, which is where AMC and Y&R did particularly well in the realistic, character-driven and socially relevant avenues. Since the 90s, soaps have ceased to strive for betterment in pursuit of the cheap gain by being as outlandish and often stupid as possible.

What we've seen is this spread through Daytime like cancer, and we've seen the effect of gimmicks being used to draw in viewers and then dive once the novelty wears off. In short, it's only now when we see Daytime in grave condition, that we see just how damaging it has been.

Comparing JER's outlandish storylines to stories related to cancer and HIV is far-fetched. Storylines related to cancer and HIV are usually eminently relateable, touch on real-life and very pressing social issues (remember the Keesha storyline on Y&R?). They gain respect for their shows and the genre if played out well.

[Ben]

I wouldn't say JER's a freak, or a visionary. Personally, I'm more often than not, disappointed in his stories. They are primarily written to shock and awe the viewers, while the character aspects get chucked to the curb. He's a plot driven writer, and while that's not bad, it's not exactly good, as characters should be at the heart of any decent story. As a writer, I'd say he's pretty limited. Nearly everything is either a mystery, or is ladened with Supernatural or sci-fi overtones. He's the kind of writer who should stay well clear of social issues, as more often than not, they offend.

Sure, these kind of stories were around before he came onto the scene, but it's JER who has paved the way for these plots to become ever-so more popular, and fashionable in daytime. As for Passions - it's there to stroke his ego. I watch Passions, and mostly, he disappoints. If it's not the execution, then it's the pay-off, or it's the dialogue that's aimed at people with zero mentality that drowns in exposition. But then, Passions is a self contained bubble, and a satire to the soap opera.

Put it this way: whenever I read about him heading to a show, I cringe.

I wondered the same. Thankfully he never was Sunset's HW. He penned the Rosario Jewels storyline, which is a prime example of his creativity. Man, did it have plot holes! It was the only story that stood out from every episode, and not because of it's premise, but for being badly written, and poorly constructed. You could tell it was written by someone different to all the other stories.

[EricMontreal22]

"Would we call Robin's HIV or Monica's Breast Cancer a "gimmick or cheap trick"? It got viewers tuning in...and after the story was over, kept them."

Didn't the HIV story (and it being admidst a slew of heavy stories) cause GH ratings to start to slip causing the execs to tell Claire Labine to cut a further elaboration of the storyline (I'm pretty sure I just read this in Waggert's Soap Encyclopedia).

I do think JER is given a bit too much credit as a writer--then again the man did cause a huge change for daytime (sure other soaps had done wacky stories before--GH in the 80s was filled with everything from mad scientists to aliens and OLTL had underground cities and doctors with bionic arms) but the Days/JER thing was at leasta s far raging--many shows were told to add these elemtns to their shows--most famously AW but we also had lotsa stuff at GL I doubt you ever woulda seen before, AMC with the voodoo plot and Santa Clause, etc

(it' sinterestign that making the plots more and more outlandish saved DAYS--although really DAYS wasn't int he 80s one of the most realisitc soaps either taking a huge cue from GH's action adventure format, I just read about one story they had where a character's clone from the future came to Slame and this was the late 80s--because some ten years before they tried a similar technique to save The Doctors--and it backfired)

What I hate about his writing is how lazy it is. I really wanted to like Passions cuz I liked the idea of a gothic horror soap (anyone remember the original ads for the show that promised a show that would actually try to be scary??) When I quickly realized we would never get that I was hoping for a campy fun soap liek I loved so much with most of Sunset Beach. But I just could never get into the show because of how he writes--the endless dialogue that goes in absolute circles, the slowness of plots, etc, etc, it literally gives me a headache to watch I find it that furstrating.

WHat was the evil spa story on ATWT?

[ANDREA LOATHES REILLY]

Anyone completely consumed by rape and incest is a

FREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ANDREA

[sungrey]

No question -- the graverobbing and subsequent plague released throughout Madison was born out of desperation to get The Doctors turned around and then the writers realizing "ah the hell with it, we're screwed". The Doctors was a well-written show for the most part until the last couple years.

Same for Capitol. As much as I enjoy watching James Lipton (and Will Ferrell making fun of James Lipton) the man cannot write a soap to save his life. Making a respected senator a traitor to his country? Ed Nelson should have sued CBS for wrongful termination.

Out-there storytelling has always been a part of daytime. It's just that 25 years ago, tales of rape and incest were what made us go "WOW!". Now it seems like we yawn and say been there, done that.

As much as I detest Reilly and what he turned Days into during his second run, the first run on the show was pretty entertaining for the most part. The Carrie/Austin/Sami story was fun to watch, the Maison Blanche hijinks were worth tuning in for every day... it was the second go-round, featuring a serial killer storyline that never should have seen the light of day and a bunch of characters that brought nothing new to the show, that tarred and feathered his reputation.

And the possession story had no place on Days, much like cloning on GL never belonged.

[Dr. Chip]

I'm sure I'm missing so many plot points here, but here are some highlights of JER's hits and misses in my book:

The Good

Who would have dreamed that Roman and Marlena's daughter, Sami, would turn out to be such a conniving teenager? A brilliant choice! (Although he never learned to let Sami grow up, the beginnings of Ali's Sami were great.)

He drew from the show's rich history and brought back Laura Horton, who had been comatose for 18 years. He also inserted Kate Roberts into the show's history without really rewriting anything (he just added to it). The Laura/Kate relationship was such a shocker. And he also brought back Bill and Mike.

He brought back Doug and Julie, originally to surprise Tom while he was in the hospital for Christmas 1993.

JER gave us classic Stefano in 1994 -- love of family (doing it all for Kristen), mind games (puzzle pieces to Maison Blanche), captivity (the dungeon with John and Marlena), etc.

Although the character is a little much at times, JER gave us the awesome Celeste!

He penned a respectful sendoff for Macdonald Carey/Tom Horton and brought back Kimberly, Marie, and Melissa for the funeral.

Although I hated Carly quickly forgiving and running off with her best friend's rapist, the "buried alive" story was awesomely done. It had been done before (I remember Lauren on Y&R), but never like this.

The possession worked. It was a shocker. It was daring. It was unsettling. But it kept the audience glued to the tube, and it set the stage for the re-emergence of emotions from John and Marlena that would later play over into the Marlena/Kristen rivalry, the introduction of Susan Banks (although the other twins were too over the top), and John and Marlena's eventual reconciliation.

JER was looking to the future when he began strengthening the next generation -- Carrie, Sami, Shawn, Belle, etc.

Although I hated that vets were being killed off, JER originally had a purpose for selecting the victims. In the case of Maggie's death, it allowed a devastated Mickey to fall into the hands of a gold-digging piece of trash, Bonnie Lockhart. New character, realistic circumstance, fresh material.

The Bad

I enjoyed Vivian vs. Deborah Adair's Kate as well as Lauren Koslow's. And I enjoyed Vivian and Ivan. It was even a shock when Vivian ended up running into a pregnant Sami far from home. But much of the "humor" that followed, and those endless fantasies where Kate was the maid, got really old. Vivian became too much of a cartoon after a while.

Lisa Rinna's Billie was such a great character, and her relationship with Robert Kelker-Kelly's Bo was fun. My favorite Billie scene was when she left Bo at the airport and refused to stay in Salem because she knew he had unfinished business with Hope that he had to resolve. What class! What love! (But then he ruined the character by bringing back a second-rate actress with much less integrity than the character originally had.)

The post-Maison Blanche Stefano became silly. Holding Marlena in a cage, reigning over the "little people" underneath the city of Paris, trying to chop off John's head in a guillotine, unable to find the Lady in White, dressing as Elvis to impregnate Susan -- shame on JER for weakening such a strong character.

He allowed Josh Taylor to become Roman Brady and persisted on a Roman/Marlena/John triangle for years. It's still hard not seeing Chris Kositchek instead of Roman. Wayne Northrop and Josh Taylor made huge impressions as Roman and Chris; when actors/characters are able to do that, you don't tinker with them.

John's past has been changed so many times that it's impossible to construct a timeline that makes sense. His past, as well as Steve's, should be dealt with properly.

Re-introducing (living) Chelsea was such a rotten thing to do. And Andre was behind that, too? Oh, come on.

The Philip/Belle/Mimi/Shawn/Jan stuff got boring very fast, and the Iraq storyline was beyond pathetic. Also, Philip's prosthesis was poorly handled and should have been left alone.

It's painful to watch and see all these children that grew up so fast. SORAS is part of life, and we accept it, but the Belle/Philip/Brady gang grew up way too fast, and it's now impossible to piece together John/Marlena/DiMeras history without scratching your head and sighing. But, aside from, say, Belle's age, the worst move was making E.J. Elvis. Why couldn't he have been a Tony/Anna child or someone else in the family?

The Ugly

JER failed to appreciate important characters like Victor and Jack. Victor was turned into a wimp, then left to shrivel up in a nursing home for a while. Jack abandoned his family, then slept with Jennifer's mother.

He dishonored Macdonald Carey/Tom Horton with that stupid black-and-white bobbing head of a ghost that was never explained in the end. Was it just DiMera technology at work?

JER damaged the character of Bo when the return of Hope barely got his attention. Yeah, he loved Billie, but had JER never heard of Bo and Hope? The Bo/Billie/Hope/Franco stuff was boring, Franco beating up Jill and murdering the guy on the island (Vivian found him) was dropped, and years later it just got worse when Bo couldn't choose between Hope and his family, and Billie the pit rapist.

He botched the Mickey/Bonnie relationship and then destroyed the character of Mickey when Maggie returned and he was unable to choose between the two.

The "murder" of Maggie was disturbing, and I didn't appreciate seeing Suzanne Rogers bloodied and on the floor. This was wrong. Also, the "murder" of Alice Horton was beyond despicable. Watching Alice hide in the closet and later suffocate on her own doughnuts -- this never should have happened (but, then, again, I guess it didn't).

The Stalker storyline started out well but ended badly. Melaswen was a flop. The most infuriating part of it was that no answers were given for so much of this story. The ones that were given still don't make sense. And the character of Tony was ruined (and now that it's Andre, there are even more questions, particularly "why?").

Making Marlena the bad guy in the possession storyline was shocking, somehow made sense, and worked so well. Making her the bad guy again when the murders began was predictable and confusing. The jail shooting, Melaswen, castle affair, and Wayne North debacles were bad story, but at least JER appreciated the great Deidre Hall.

[dannigold]

He is a brilliant storyteller but a bad writer.

[EricMontreal22]

Well said Sungrey--I always bring up Lipton in the bad writers thread--HOW did the man get to HW soaps for 20+ years and create two??? Just shows that even in the golden era many big mistakes wer emade 9he also made Capitol focus a lot of its last time on a fantasy kingdom, no?)

[mr. sweet]

He can have a good vision sometimes. The Posession Storyline kept me glued to the TV. But after that storyline, the show fizzled for me. His storylines are too drawn out. The characters never move and the dialogue is too repetitive. For months the characters still say the same things. The serial killer storyline was beyond stupid. All the victims were stored in a pretend Salem. It did not make a whole lot of sense. Btw, what the hell happened with Cassie?? Reilly is one of my least favorite writers, if not my least favorite!!

[bellcurve]

What was supposed to be the more elaborate version?

[EricMontreal22]

Oh I was wrong--it did cancel out the plans for more similar "issue" storylines on GH though. From page 123 of Waggert's SOap Encyclopedia (not Schemering's slightly better 80s pedia)

"In 1995 the show began its most daring medical story when RObin Scorpio's boyfriend, Stone, was diagnosed with AIDS. Shortly before Stone's death Robin learned that she herself was HIV positive. While other soaps had introduced HIV positive charactrs before, no longtime character had ever contracted the disease. Despite being very well done, the storyline cost a lot of viewers. The one-two punch of Monica's breast cancer followed so very closely by Stone's battle with AIDS turned off many younger viewers, who prefered the more romantic/fantasy oriented teen stories on shows like Days of Our Lives (which had just had a sudden ratings spike). Fearing the repurcussions of further downbeat medical stories, and much to the consternation of Labine who left early in 1996, GH canceled its plans to have a major story arch revolving around Audrey Hardy developing Alzheimer's disease.

[Toups]

People chose the possession over a realistic aids story. Not surprised.

And as for the question of the topic - you guys know where I stand.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

But GH actually gained respect from critics, industry insiders, and serious fans in the 90's, while Days didn't. I can see how something like a possession can attract more viewers than a aids storyline, but at the same time, GH soared in credibility, whereas Days declined in credibility.

All one has to do to look at all the Emmy's (back when they had at least some credibility) GH amassed in the 90's and Days' complete shut-out from that particular award show.

[Toups]

Oh don't get me wrong, I loved Stone's AIDS story (from watching on YouTube). It was definitely one of the best stories ever told on daytime. It just didn't get as many viewers than JER's love story involving Satan.