GH week of 8/27

[Wales2004]

I didn't see any or enough or version 3 pre-Maxie but since they were planning Maxie and Lucky back in 2002 when JY was still around then all I can say is they took awhile but they got around to it. I don't think there was intent to do much with Lucky and Elizabeth because Cameron could have been that bond between them but they opted to give her a baby with Zander, who they probably planned to kill. I think the reason they put them together was probably so they could finally do their Lucky and Maxie story.

Let's see: Lucky and Elizabeth were sacrificed for Lucky and Sara. Jason and Elizabeth were sacrificed for Jason and Courtney who were sacrificed for Jason and Sam. Lucky and Elizabeth were sacrificed for Lucky and Maxie and then put back together in time to be sacrificed for Jason and Elizabeth for whom Jason and Sam were sacrificed.

So it seems that Lucky and Elizabeth's story since JY has been tp be together to be sacrificed for Lucky and someone else and now Elizabeth and someone else. I guess I don't see the problem. Whcih couples on soaps have never been sacrificed for other couples?

This is not some recent terrible change in the history of GH either. There are probably people who will argue that Scotty and Laura were a sweet couple and they were sacrificed for Luke and Laura. Luke was pretty shady and he raped Laura with some good explanation mind you, and they called it a seduction. The two of them went off to have many adventures and they called them the first super couple on a soap and they have a place in US Soap history. Please tell me why the sacrificing of couples today is such a big deal when it's been going on for years and people seemingly enjoyed it for years when the ratings were stellar. They may not be telling the story as best they can but how is it not classic soap?

[dragonflies]

Seriously, you just rock

Word, word and more word

[R Sinclair]

I haven't even touched on that, but I totally agree. I never understood how couples are "sacrificed" for another couple -- when FOR YEARS, they've been pairing different characters up to tell DIFFERENT STORIES THAT CAN'T BE TOLD WITH THE SAME TWO CHARACTERS IN THE SAME COUPLING FOR TEN YEARS!

A story with Jason and Liz can't be told with Jason and Sam because Sam and Liz are two different characters.

A story with Lucky and Sam can't be told with Lucky and Liz because... ^^^^

[R Sinclair]

And your avatar rocks just as much!

But, yeah. That's always been something I found rather curious and I'm interested in seeing the explanation -- if I get one.

[Skin]

First of all the situations between Babe and Liz were drastically different. Babe didn't know in the beginning that Paul switched the children. Babe found out way way way later that the babies were switched and was told that her baby DIED. At that point Babe believed that Bess was HER child and for months believed that her baby was Bess and grew to love her like a daughter. She didn't drive Bianca up to a cabin, pull Miranda out of her uterus and then run off with the baby. She was a victim of Paul Cramer's sick lies and due to those lies kept a child that wasn't hers out of greif for a child she thought was dead and out of a need to have a daughter that she believed was her for months.

The two situtions are no where NEAR alike in this circumstance. Elizabeth chose to lie to both Lucky and Jason about the paternity of her child and is still lying about that paternity lie. It's not as if she even admits what she is doing is competely wrong. Hell she even has half of Lucky's family and friends telling her that she is doing a social good when she is lying to him and making him believe he has a son that isn't his. Babe atleast felt bad about what she did even though she was deeply grieving the loss of her son and no where near IMO mentally stable after hearing the news that her baby died.

Liz however knows eactly what she is lying about and still even when Lucky out right asks her the question of Jake's paternity lies to his face. I am feeling no sympathy for Liz here. She has no guilt about what she does, she has no extreme circumstances, she doesn't even seem to really love Lucky and I am finding all of her reasons and ultimately her character to be shallow. She has no reason to keep this lie going yet she still does. Babe gets my sympathy because of her situation and because she was a victim of one of the sickest men in daytime history. Liz isn't a victim. She just wants to lie just because for no real reason.

[LiasonAgent007]

Hella Yes!

[Cheap21]

When has Lucky ever compared what he did last summer to what Liz did. He is mad bc she LIED for a whole year. She destroyed the trust. 2 wrongs dont make a right. She bitched at him for cheating and lying when that is exactly what she did as well. People in glass houses should not throw stones. She had every right to be angry and upset. Im not disputing that, but that doenst change the fact that Lucky has a right to his anger as well. She continues to lie to him. He asked ehr flat out twice if she loves Jason and she said no. He asked her if Jake is his and she lied. She is a compulsive liar and he has give her so many chances to be honest and all she ever does is lie. She doesnt get a free pass bc Lucky hurt her last summer. That is done and over with and he has paid. Its time she take responsibility for her actions as of now

For her kids? BULL! This story did NOT start bc of her kids. The way GH told it, she initially lied bc she was afraid Lucky would fall off hte wagon even though he told her his recovery depended on honesty. When she told Jason, she begged him not to come forward as the father, not bc of her children, but bc she didnt want to hurt Lucky. This concern for Jake's safety was not presented onscreen till around the time he was born. And if she is lying to keep her kids safe, then WHY was she constantly around Jason and letting her kids around him too when his enemies could easily have picked them all off to get to Jason or simply get caught in hte crossfire?

Well Lucky did go back to drugs and he did go back to Maxie last summer. Elizabeth could have saved everyone the trouble had she told Lucky as soon as she reunited with him. Nipped it in the bud while all his secrets and dirt was out. Better to do it while he's hit rock bottom then to f--k up his world after he's rebuilt it and made progress.

Elizabeth lied to save her own ass. That became evident to me when she thought Lucky had gone back to drugs last fall after Ric set him up and she still did not tell Lucky the truth. She thought he was using and lying to her again, so she had nothing to lose by telling him the truth. Why keep quiet to keep him sober if she beleived he was doing drugs? She could and should have told him the truth there but she didnt which told me, that she was using Lucky as an excuse for her lies.

And the argument that Lucky would have lost his mind and gone back to drugs and Maxie is weak simply for the fact that he has NOT done that since the reveal on the witness stand

And thats the problem. Instead of turning to her husband and being a wife, she always runs to Jason. Lucky was fine with Jason when he and Liz reunited. He was fine with him at the wedding and he was fine with him after, but he started to pick up on Liz's unusual obsession for him. She was lying to protect Jason. She was lying to see him. She depended and relied on him way to much and Lucky saw that which caused a rift between them bc she didnt see why it was wrong for her to lean on a man that she cheated on her husband with and was in love with. WTF? What person would be okay with this situation? While Lucky didnt know the whole truth, he did have a feeling and he was right.

Jason and Courtney were NOT sacrified for Jason/Sam. Those two were over for close to a year before Jason and Sam became a couple and she was together and falling in love with Jax by the time that happened

[dragonflies]

Don't you know, Babe IS Love, Bianca said so

Thanks, can't wait either, there's some good stuff coming up this week

I don't get it either, Sam is practically cheered on for what she did to Cam & Jake. It makes my stomach turn

[Wales2004]

Thank you because as sweet as it might be to see a couple last for years without cheating or anything, it would be boring to me. Sure they could have had Jason and Sam have this tearful goodbye as they decided that it wouldn't work anymore but where's the drama? Besides some people would be declaring how they'd be back together next month or whenever, even if that isn't the writers intent and who knows? Maybe they will at some point. With this antgonism. the story is more amped up for those who aren't hooked on them as a couple. People in the neutral zone get to see something and people who hate them together are probably elated. The "clever" wrtier might be packing his or herself on the back thinking that Jason threatening to kill Sam was a great way to show his paternal instinct instead of seeing it as potentially ugly or mean.

As for the other stuff. what I'm seeing is that if you line two characters up, the one that is liked is excused for most things and the hated one is the scum of the earth for doing the same or less.

[LiasonAgent007]

Yeah its getting late and I'm getting a hella tired....

We'll continue this battle to end all battles tomorrow! Look forward to it though and I hope you guys have a great evening and day. I love the GH community so much on this board!

[Cheap21]

I dont think Ive read anyone cheering what Sam did in that incident

[Skin]

I'm still at a loss for what she did to them. She didn't do anything to those kids. The kids didn't even know what was happening. She scared Elizabeth and gave her a reality check of what Jason's life would be like. That's all she did. She hired actos to scare her. She didn't do anything with the kids.

[Wales2004]

But couldn't a person who makes the argument that couples are sacrificed for others, easily say that they broke Jason and Courtney up so he could be free to fall in love with Sam. after Sonny dumped Sam on Jason? In order to pull that whole plot off they did have to get Courtney out of the way so it's not that big of a stretch.

[Cheap21]

thats too big of a stretch. When Jason and Courtney broke up, the show had JUST put Sonny with Sam. Sonny and Sam were the rooting couple and GH was really pushing them. There were NO plans for her and Jason as a couple when all of this started. That didnt come till much later when Sonny/Sam didnt do as well as TPTB expected them too. Jason and Courtney were not split up for the intention of putting him with Sam nearly a year later.

[Wales2004]

And you really don't see anything wrong with a toddler seeing two men point a gun at his mother? This is okay because they were paid actors. If we suspend soap fiction for a minute and pretend this was real, then it's okay for a jilted lover to play this sort of revenge games involving kids? If police had come along not knowing it was just a little lesson for Elizabeth, and they shot and missed and hit one of the kids, that would be okay. If Cam had nightmares because he saw men threatened his mother, that would be okay. Maybe you're looking at it from the point of view that it was a controlled situation and it made Sam look like a hero. Maybe other people are seeing it as problematic because innocent children were involved and there was a potential for the seemingly controlled situation to go out of control.

When children are involved them people tend to forget about suspending reality on a soap and they look for realism because there is this unspoken rule about responsibility where children are involved.

As for your explanation of Babe vs Elizabeth. Babe was in the dark up until a point but once she found out that wasn't her baby then she was obligated to return the child to her mother. Withholding a child from her mother is a whole lot worse and more painful than a lying about the paternity of a child. Neither is right, but if you are going to compare them and put them on the same scale then what Babe did once she found out the chiild was not hers was worse than Elizabeth lying to Lucky.

Lucky is loving a child that is not biologically his and when the lie is result, he will feel hurt and betrayed and he will probably still love Jake as a son. The flip side is having a mother mourning the death of her child every single day and being in pain and agony and having a difficult time seeing babies. The two are just not comparable at all. I don't even see how anyone can try to argue that one.