vetsoapfan

There are people who both love and despise many forms of content, but there's no denying the number of people who revel in watching their favorite catfights, and enjoy seeing the villains they hate getting their butts whupped. There you go: the context of that scene made you appreciate it, just like the context of other scenes made different viewers appreciate those scenes and have their own reactions to them. And your Generations reference was an example of two women physically assaulting each other, and you summing it up by saying you were a fan of it.🤷‍♂️ Complex questions of morality may be a challenge to understand, but one can acknowledge physical violence is wrong, while still acknowledging that if you goad and goad and goad someone far enough, they very well may react in a way you deem unacceptable. Meta Bauer on TGL may have been wrong to shoot her husband Ted White after her son Chuckie died, but viewers understood very well why she was driven to it. And yet, vocal 'shippers in the audience continue to sing out praises for the most degenerate criminal men of the genre.

I generally have no issue with people expressing their opinions, even when they diametrically oppose my own. Yes, it is shocking today to hear someone say, "She deserves it," but it all depends on the circumstances involved. I saw a viral video on Youtube years ago, about an aggressive woman on the subway harassing and harassing and HARASSING a man for the "crime" of wearing a jacket she thought looked stupid. He walked away, she followed him. She took a swing at another passenger filming her atrocious behavior. Finally, she whacked her victim across the back of his head with a pair of heavy shoes she was carrying, drawing blood. He turned around and smacked her, sending her flying backwards. The usual response of "Men should never hit women no matter what" followed, but so did many statements of support for the man's acting in self defense. Everything depends on the overall context involved. I was honestly less offended by Russ spanking Rachel after what she did, than I was to see Todd Manning (OLTL) and Luke Spencer (GH) rape women, and ultimately be forgiven for their crimes and turned into romantic leads. Russ' actions were never condoned.

Donna was expressing the modern ideal that men should never hit women under any circumstance. Elements of society did not always share that opinion, however. Societal attitudes once dictated that men were the heads of the household and needed to be obeyed. It's curious to me that on social media nowadays... --Viewers often cheer when female heroines bitch-slap their antagonists. (Think Krystle and Alexis in the lily pond as only one example.) --Fans also cheer when male heroes open up a fresh can of whup-a$$ and go postal on vexatious men. (Think Jack Reacher and all the scum he serves justice to on a regular basis.) --I've even seen foot stomping and enthusiastic applauding (or worse, excuses and justifications) when aggressive women assault men, even those who are not DOING anything to the women in question. I'm not sure why Russ spanking Rachel 50+ years ago would be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I made it clear that I did not think it was justified, just that as a human being, Russ was driven over the edge and temporarily lost control. Was he right? No. Was it understandable in the heat of the moment? That's debatable, but I can testify that many members of the audience, including women, were just waiting for Rachel to get her comeuppance. I'm merely pointing out that life and soaps (back in the day when the writing for daytime TV was layered and adult) are not black and white. If viewers can forgive mobsters, kidnappers, rapists and murderers, and even accept them romancing and marrying their victims...well, you get my drift.

No, Russ really did take Rachel over his knee and spank her. I've always wondered if that was written in the original script, or if the director came up with the idea, since Rachel was being such a monstrous b*tch in the scene. (No, that doesn't justify Russ spanking her.) Nowadays, of course, we know better. A heroic male lead would never be allowed to hit his wife, but social mores were vastly different in the "olden days". Even Ricky Ricardo spanked Lucy on I LOVE LUCY. (People never, ever believe me about this, but here it is in black and white.)

Yes. It was somewhat annoying that TPTB just threw established history (the siblings' ages) out the window, but when Russ was aged and suddenly became the second oldest Matthews offspring, at least we got the excellent Sam Groom to play the role. His version of the character was wonderful; strong, compassionate, ethical and noble, a moral hero who never came across as a simp or a goody-goody. Russ had to have been a saint to stand by Rachel for so long, considering all her atrocious behavior. Yes, he did get pushed beyond his limit and spanked her one time, but trust me...she deserved it.😝

I never remember Mary having as much hostility for John as she did for Rachel or Steve, but both Mary and Jim were disappointed and frustrated when John turned to drink and left Pat in 1974. John had turned to drink and started fighting with Pat that year because of Steve, anyway. Steve had broken the law and bribed Rachel's father to testify against her in Steve's and Rachel's divorce trial. When John found out about Steve's criminal behavior, he felt duty bound to tell the court. Pat wanted him to keep quiet to protect Alice. In the end, I figured that Mary didn't come down too hard on John during his break up with Pat, because the whole thing was Steve's fault, and Mary wasn't Steve's biggest cheerleader anyway.

@Mona Kane Croft, I agree with your analysis of Mary Matthews, and how the character seriously devolved under Harding Lemay. He even acknowledged in print that he wanted to imbue her with the negative attributes that were more appropriate "for a woman like that." Under Irna Phillips, Agnes Nixon and Robert Cenedella, however, Mary was a warm, nurturing, maternal figure.

Mary was uneasy about Rachel from early on, regardless of how much Rachel tried to ingratiate herself into the family. It was clear that Rachel was desperate to better her life's circumstances, in terms of money and social status. After Jim Matthews found out that Steve, and not Russ, had gotten Rachel pregnant, Mary couldn't even control her fury. She became enraged and started shrieking, "I hate her! I HATE HER!" Imagine Alice Horton or Ruth Martin or Jessie Brewer going berserk like that. It was actually rather chilling. Mary was okay with Steve at the beginning. He was kind to Alice and respectful to the family. But after what he did to Russ and Alice, Mary developed negative feelings about Steve, and her cool reserve lasted a long time. Mary became chilly towards Steve after he devastated her children, but she never had a beef with John, IIRC.

I would do it! DAYS just needs to hire me, LOL!

Yes, I know that Wagner did not quite make it to ATWT's very last day, but in my mind, it was close enough. Her absence left a hole in the finale, alas.

Doug also has a biological son named Doug LeClaire, who existence has never been brought up over the last several decades. The show could do something with that angle, if they wished to carry on Doug Williams' legacy. No problem. Glitches happen. It alerted me to your post and allowed me to catch the photo pf Tina Andrews...who looks so different from her time on DAYS!

Like Helen Wagner on ATWT and Mary Stuart on SFT. It would have been wonderful!

Yes. I agree, but at least on the show's tenth anniversary, Mary was given her due. I am so glad I kept the episode, and that it survived for decades until it could be digitized! Out of curiosity, what years did you watch AW during Mary Matthews' time there?

Mary Matthews is indeed on the 10th anniversary episode, and in fact, appears quite prominently. Virginia Dwyer is missing from some of the publicity photos of the wedding, but Mary did attend the ceremony and was in other scenes during the day as well. Check out the entire episode from May 3, 1974 on Eddie Drueding's AW Home Page. http://www.anotherworldhomepage.com/tenthanniversary.html

I don't recall the details, but even at the time I found it curious that Iris would be at Alice's wedding to Steven. I would not have been surprised to see Ada there (she did not attend the ceremony) because of her close relationship with Mary, but Iris? Hmmm.🤔

Not to be contrary, but in May of 1974, I am pretty sure Iris was involved with Kurt Landis, whom she brought as a date to Steve's and Alice's wedding. (The episode is available in its entirety on Eddie Drueding's Another World Home Page.) I know iris and Russ were together in 1975, and she was there to comfort him when Mary Matthews died on Good Friday of that year. I remember she drifted out of the Matthewses' lives and had little/no interaction with most of them as the years went on.

As I recall, Alice and Iris didn't have a lot of interaction in later years, although Iris was invited to Alice's second marriage to Steven. I think she was present when Alice married Ray Gordon as well.

To be fair, I do suppose that if Goutman had been hell-bent on axing the vets, he could have campaigned to fire them outright. As far as we know, anyway, he did not try to do that. Molly, Katie, NuCraig, NuPaul, NuDusty, Henry...there were so many abrasive characters who were shoved down our throats in later years. I found many of the most-featured actors to be unbearable in those final years. But again to be fair, different viewers had different favorites. This has always been the case on soaps. It must be a challenge to balance out the interests and desires of all the different fanbases.

As the years went on, it was clear TPTB on many soaps did not respect their vets as much as they once did. I think savvy veteran performers knew it was in their best interest to be discreet in their public statements. (That comment by Penny was hilarious, and echoed what many viewers were thinking, I'm sure!)

Wagner was very vocal, and made her displeasure about being sidelined quite clear, back in the early 1980s when she was off contract for a few years. During the 2000s, however, I don't recall her making any public comments about how little Nancy was being used. Maybe she felt that her current position on the canvas was tenuous, and she did not not to rock the boat too much. Eileen Fulton, on the other hand, was a different story, and not shy at all about showing her resentment about Lisa's diminished capacity on the show. When being asked in a filmed, one-on-one interview about the various writers on ATWT, she offered a clipped and obviously irritated, "I have nothing to say!" when Sheffer was brought up. In a panel discussion, when Jean Passanante was discussing writing for the soap, Fulton snarked, "You left ME out of it!" Passanante was clearly startled and didn't know how to reply, but the conversation quickly moved on and the tense moment passed. OMG, I had never heard anything like that before. Go, Frances Reid!!!! Woohoo! Give him hell!

Oh, that's interesting. If DvD's character had also been in the Korean war, it would make sense that he had vague feelings about it.

That's definitely not an interview/story I read. In it, Hogan related the story of Wagner asking him to be used more on the show. He was quoted as saying that she may have been the matriarch, but he was going to write the show as he saw fit. My problem is not that he asserted his rights as the writer, per se, but that he revealed to the public a veteran actress had asked for more attention from her own series, and had been turned down by a newbie writer who didn't appear to understand the soap very well. Had I been Wagner, I would have been humiliated. Yep. It was one idiotic decision after another.

Thank you. That was very helpful. It saddens me that the show has killed him off, but at least we know Tommy's fate, now.

A kind poster has just told me that in scenes with Dick Van Dyke on DAYS, Julie Williams brought up her long-unmentioned uncle Tommy Horton, Jr., saying that he had had amnesia long ago and that he has passed away. I was so used to Tommy's living in oblivion, with no mention of his whereabouts or what had ever happened to him. Did Julie give any details about him or his death? (I'm sure the answer will be no, TPTB wouldn't care that much, but I am curious.) Thanks in advance.

I'll even endure Alan Locher to see this!!!