Vee

I never watched back then but Bryan Buffinton can get it!

So where do I stream these?

There were rumors about Carla being cast in '11. Not sure how legit they were. Still making my way through LM. As much as I love LLC, any time Lisa Peluso enters the scene her force of presence and chemistry with the delightful (and DILF) Randolph Mantooth dwarfs Lo Cicero's decent chemistry with him. Unpopular? opinion: I think Steffi and cute little Richard have real chemistry too.

I'd forgotten Lorraine's debut episode on TC was already on YT - much earlier than I thought, January '96. They do discuss Charles. I hope I can finally see Steffi and Cooper's exit. I think Erica would've worked on TC provided it was kept to six months to a year - no longer, though she could visit. Home needed to be AMC. Garin Wolf tried to revisit Tracy's TC ties to the Soleitos in 2011. It didn't go well.

I see Russell finally got to pull the trigger on outing Luke - a development hinted at near the end of Sarah Jane Adventures, but halted when Lis died and the show was forced to end production. Unless I am misreading I believe he also just made Tegan and Nyssa a couple....

Our benefactor has begun posting The City. I may rewatch a bit to see how it holds up beyond the amazing production/style and intriguing characters. My ex was obsessed with the same writing team's attempt at TC to do a follow-up to the Loving Murders when its ratings dipped - "The Masquerade." I don't remember much of that, but the promotional campaign was near-identical. The writers, Brown and Esensten, later had very mixed runs at Port Charles (which succeeded LOV/TC), GL and AMC. At PC they shepherded its transformation into an overtly gothic, telenovela-ized supernatural soap complete with vampires, werewolves and angels. At GL they did a third run at rehashing the Loving Murders with the "Nursery Rhyme Stalker" story, which sucked. At AMC they worked with Agnes Nixon to refocus the show on a beloved core family - their key Hubbards from LOV/TC, with the return of Debbi Morgan, Darnell Williams and a new Frankie (Cornelius Smith).

Charles does have at least one great scene early on; his hilarious double-act with Alex. Mantooth is in perfect mischievous form and Geoffrey Ewing plays off him beautifully. "Don't call me 'white man!'" I never found Charles super compelling, but Ewing gave the material his all and plays the collapse of his marriage to Angie and especially his rediscovery of love with Lorraine beautifully. Lisa Peluso was best known not long after this for a breakout role in the last years of AW, as a Southern belle comedienne. But the role that grabs me is Ava. Peluso fills Agnes Nixon's Erica Kane/Rachel Davis mold well, but evolves it as Victoria Wyndham did in a different way. Peluso was also a soap lifer, a child star who'd bounced all over, from Search for Tomorrow to a throwaway teen role on garish Paul Rauch OLTL that she still made crackle. Underrated star then and now. Be sure to watch her with Dinah Lee in the 1993 eps. I think the darker character throughlines for the Aldens in the Loving Murders are all there, esp in the early '90s episodes sprinkled through the thread recently. Clay's summation of himself in his final episodes is damning and links back to the '93 material for both him and Gwyneth. Certainly some of the other material is tacky.

Interesting that in '93 (Trisha's final episodes) they were still shelling out money for excellent film score music cues from Presumed Innocent and Jennifer Eight - playing during the scenes with Ava/Dinah Lee and Curtis/Gwyneth among others. I thought Linda Gottlieb had popularized using film scores at OLTL, but I've heard others in '80s episodes of soaps pre-dating her. Either way I know those scores and they work very well here, particularly the sinister title theme from Jennifer Eight when Gwyneth tells her son to leave Corinth and never come back to save himself from their family. Very prescient for '95.

Longer thread.

It always cracked me up. I already loved Debbi and Darnell and was happy about the ending, but when Angie crowed 'livin' for the sit-tay!" and they shooped outta frame I remember thinking 'man, if I watched Loving a long time I'd be pissed,' lol. I didn't mind the link between shows. But to me TC was incredible stylistically and production-wise but largely a huge waste of creative potential. The concept worked. If they'd done that show right it might still be standing today.

The 'protests' are absolutely funded by Tea Party-style astroturfing. Not working as well this time.

Same here. She floored me on ATWT in '03(?).

I love the murder story. But I understand why some people don't. I just think '90s LOV is a story of endless potential in a cozy, misty package that constantly found itself lost in the woods but never without talent. I think the Loving Murders are brutal, but also heavily linked to the core of the show and satisfyingly resonant. You can see the seeds of this stuff even in those recent eps from '92 and '93, or even in random personal conversations and character moments.

Your rambling is very welcome, dc.

3/10.

It is embarrassing how much they turned Gwyneth into a frump from '92 to different periods I've seen in '93-'95 - the difference in look and mannerisms is striking in Tudor's '92 return vs. sad sack menopausal Gwyneth in the final two years, though I suppose the wild veering shifts suit the character's core ultimately. Susan Keith's Shana also ended up a crunchy sweatered housewife, IIRC - part of it was the earthy styles and down-home cozy aesthetic of the early-mid '90s, but it certainly managed to defuse a lot of spitfire women on soaps. Overnight Wino Carly is hilarious.

Wow. Legit had no idea there was a super-90s cyberpunk-flavored virtual reality sitcom interlude in the middle of the Loving Murders. In which Clay reimagines his family life with Gwyneth and the kids as Leave it to Beaver, by way of VR with laugh track! VR was all the rage at the time in media, with over the top demonstrations of its supposed fantastical capabilities in scores of movies and TV like The Lawnmower Man, Virtuosity, Brainscan, VR5, even an episode of Murder She Wrote. Today even Oculus Rift can’t manage Clay’s imagined past. There’s no credits or record but I’m also willing to bet that was Joseph Cross as the child Curtis. The VR thing was such a bonkers, demented little bit and I loved it - especially young Trisha’s creepy little line about wanting to see Rome, where she’d abandon her family and shatter it for good. Dennis Parlato is excellent. I’ve often thought he’s an underrated soap player. I guess the attempt to recast him as Roger Thorpe would never have worked but he’d be as good a shot as they could ever have. The summation of Clay’s character pre-death is on point and very candid for a soap, and his commenting on how their family disintegrated when Trisha walked away strikes at the core of this very early. Gwyneth’s reminiscence with Jeremy is also spellbinding. As a horror buff, it surprises me to only just now realize there is a ton of similarity to the Italian horror “giallo” subgenre in this story. Giallo was popularized by the hyper-stylized films of Mario Bava, Dario Argento and others in the ‘60s and ‘70s, and often featured a black-gloved mystery killer murdering people in bizarre ways, usually accompanied with some sort of musical motif or cryptic recurring bit of physical business at the scene. (The clicking sound when the killer is on the scene here qualifies.) I still don’t remember what significance the origin of the sound had, though I know what it is. The shredded pieces of the mysterious picture at the crime scenes is also very giallo - hints are always strewn throughout giallo films to add up to what is often a convoluted gothic reveal usually based in dark past events or past traumas. Anyway, it’s all great.

We discussed this here long ago, but I think it may also be down to Brown and Esensten, the writers for LOV/TC in this period. For all their many flaws on various shows, they frontburnered Angie, Jacob, Lorraine, etc. And when they did AMC in 2008 the cornerstone of their run was, again, Debbi Morgan as Angie, Jesse and the Hubbard family return. I believe they also added Mario Van Peebles and his son, along with Cassandra from TC. They added like six black characters.

They ended the Carly/Lorenzo romance literally right before she took over the role. It is beyond me why it was never picked up again, except that the show would not allow Ted King to outshine Maurice Benard.

I found Charles boring as hell, but I remember seeing the finale episode again some years back and finding his romantic reunion with Lorraine really touching and wonderful. I was also disappointed a little, but then again, Roscoe Born (RIP).

I've loved Lisa Lo Cicero since first watching in this era, when she had the bright red hair and I think she still has a lot of charm including with Randy Mantooth. But Peluso is very, very good, esp with Mantooth, so it's hard for even LLC to compete. I was not overly fond of what little I saw of her popular AW role (Lila), in which Michael Malone partly refurbished Luna Moody from OLTL. I'd forgotten they allegedly tried to woo her to GL to play Amanda Spaulding. LLC has always kept a sense of humor about her career - I remember her cracking up about her terrible Santi storyline on OLTL (also Michael Malone) early and often since. IIRC, Laura Wright got her start before soaps pumping gas back in my home state, Maryland. It's always shown, even now. She's got grit.

Thanks. How did they 'redeem' Danny or mitigate the story?

No, the killer never won an Emmy AFAIK. Can someone remind me who Danny was and how he came to town? I was surprised to discover in #1 that Tony was introduced via Tess.

Since we've all done pretty well not mentioning the identity of the killer for first time viewers' sake, I suggest we consider spoiler-tagging it for awhile. I will ask: Were there any interviews indicating when during taping the performer was told they were the culprit? I am watching them closely. IIRC Brown came in and did a few days taping as Ben, but couldn't handle GL's schedule and quit. Hunt Block redid it all. James dePaiva (Max, OLTL) was Paul Rauch's first choice, who said no. When were Brown's drug issues? I know he and the also-DILF Randolph Mantooth (Alex) were up for the Clint recast at OLTL in 2005-2006. Both would've been closer in attitude and manner to Clint Ritchie than Jerry verDorn, but I think JVD was the best choice for reworking and reinvigorating the character.

To this day I don't get why they bothered porting Steffi over to TC when she left two months in. Was it a promotional misdirect to try and hook viewers? Were they hoping Heinle would re-sign? I don't remember what happened to Brianna, who's better here than I remember. The stuff with her and Alimi Ballard's Frankie is remarkably fun and sexy for young black characters, all often neutered today. I also remember quite a swooning finish with Lorraine and Charles reuniting - I don't recall the details on their breakup when she moved to TC for Nick.