Vee

For many kids it isn't, but for many it is or can be. This isn't the 80s or the 90s. It's not some fantasy and all, it's the kind of behavior many accepting parents now try to model for kids like that. Which is why it was so important and touching to see GH model it for its audience, the same way it taught them about AIDS, etc.

Because it is the only romantic story TG will allow. The last time someone tried otherwise (Ron) he brought the hammer down. I think if someone had actually pushed him again he might've respected it. This is a more down to earth, less over-ambitious and probably much more viable angle than my own ideas lol, which are pretty grandiose and simultaneously designed as a splashy farewell for the network version of the show allowing it to clear the decks for a new streaming version, and would probably require burning all of its remaining ABC budget on the way out the door. Yours are smarter, more mature and I like it! But I keep my big ideas in a drawer though I have zero intention or likelihood of working on the soaps, so I won't post all my mess in here.

It's just our usual trolls sockpuppeting and gaming the system, and maybe a couple new mental patients (or both doing both). If people just block them and stop responding to them trying to get the last word on opinions that are designed to get folks' attention and incite outrage, there's nowhere to go. We all remember Jonny's usual transparent schtick. It's boring.

I did want to reiterate how beautifully and subtly that was played, because it was down to earth. They gave Becky the beat and the close-up the instant Aidan used a gender-neutral pronoun to refer to the person in his class before feeling safe enough to say it was a boy. They let her note it but didn't overegg it, and she just let him lead and waited for him to say it. It was gentle and very real, those kind of scenes happen everyday IRL and should happen more often. It's the kind of education soaps excel at. Would it be nice if the scenes were longer than 90 seconds per sequence, sure, but that's Frank for you.

I thought Luke and Tracy were great and inspired at first. Then it became about him repeatedly scamming and humiliating her while also adding a lot of sudden new editorializing about how fake L&L were. Any time Tracy or Lulu or anyone else began bitching about Luke and Laura I lost more and more interest in Luke and Tracy instead. I know what I'd do but I've talked about that many a time. All I'll say is that even with the 60th gone by, I'd try to hook TG to return for 6-12 months to close the characters out in a way that redeems Luke and L&L, gives Laura an exciting new pairing waiting in the wings after Luke, and then yes, kills Luke off onscreen. He might go for that, lol. You wouldn't see L&L properly back together again for any extended period, but the character elements of the story would be all about them returning to each other, him being jealous of her with first Kevin and then someone else, coming to terms with their past life, the old house and so on. It would be about Luke's slow rebuild back towards embracing them, their life as a family and their love again, show them working together one more time, and making sure everyone knows that love was real and the heart of the show and that Luke is willing to die for it. They would be back together in spirit even if they don't make it back to the altar, just in time for Luke to die. And Laura would be okay, because it would already be clear that as mayor and in other ways she has evolved past him, Luke or no Luke.

I don't know about that. It was always there for people who remembered, and there was even a beautifully subtle and disturbing moment very early in Labine's run and their return to the show in late '93 amidst L&L and Lucky's domestic bliss where it's alluded to without any dialogue. They had a dark history, and acknowledging it IMO could only make the couple and both their dark and light parts stronger. Would any of what had happened been acceptable for a soap couple today, no, but it was a product of its eras.

No, I think that's a big extrapolation. Seeing where a new actor fits is not the same thing as a long-form story bible for a major plotline at all. And since it's come up, Carly was created and Sarah Brown was hired in the last days of Labine - what if anything she had in mind for the character we don't really know. But Guza made her what she became, which all the longtime writers from both Labine and Guza's tenures confirm. People too often take Mulcahey and MVJ's quotes to mean Guza hired SJB and made Carly, and it's not that simple. From WLS: As for Loving, that show blew through maybe over half a dozen writers in under five years - I doubt the silly Faison crossover was anything but an ABC mandate or something from one of their many EPs.

I don't think that's quite accurate. Yes, part of the shift in focus had to do with Joe Stuart's fascination with Pat Ashley/Jacquie Courtney. But we've been over this topic before in here and Viki still had a lot of story - the Ted Clayton stuff, etc. I do think she took second position to Pat at times (and Erika has coolly commented on it on occasion in veiled ways while remaining kind about JC - 'once Joe Stuart was gone I knew I had job security'), but I don't think we'd ever have classed her as a supporting character.

I can't argue with a lot of the points made above, but I do think the re-introduction of the Cassadines was impeccable and I suspect there had to be some sort of long-term bible or plan for whatever the hell they were doing - I don't think they were just spitballing. (Someone should ask MVJ or Mulcahey on Twitter.) But it also would've allowed Stefan and Nikolas to remain, whatever it was. I blame Guza's first exit and the other factors mentioned. I also think Stefan and Laura got ruined by execution, plotting, the long wait between writers, Katherine and so on; they were scorching when he first appeared but by the time they got together it was Sominex. Plus, as a kid I never accepted the breakup of Luke and Laura (and their quickie reunion under JFP in her dying days was mishandled).

As much as I think these kids are too old and there are too many of them, it's nice to see them finally pull the trigger on Aiden being LGBT. The scene with Liz was well-played - that's the kind of thing soaps can and should do. I'm not sure that kid can act and I expect we won't see him for another six months though lol, which is why I still prefer they do a more low-key element of the same story with Jake and free him from that mutant. Violet must die.

Some lovely fanart: Click to enlarge. I especially like the pix of Amy, Clara and Bill in the first one, and Sarah Jane featured in the second.

People are rushing to sift through the tea leaves as to what SCOTUS will do about this. My suspicion: SCOTUS will do nothing and decline to take on the case. This allows the part of the conservative branch of the Court that deludes themselves into thinking they're 'principled' and turns their nose up at 45 to potentially rid themselves of Trump without lifting a finger.

She left in mid-October '95 maybe 2-3 weeks before the end tops, IIRC, not long before Gwyneth was outed. It was moving to the climax by the time Ava couldn't take anymore and headed to Florida(?), pleading for Alex to come with her. There was a nice scene and montage I talked about in here back in 2020 when a lot of us rewatched. I believe after the killings ended Alex made it clear he intended to go down to Florida and try to patch it up with Ava, and bade farewell to folks including Jocelyn (Lisa Lo Cicero) who he'd become tight with. I know he then turned up on TC at some point early in its first weeks having revealed that he and Ava couldn't fix it, which left him open to fulfill the flirtation with Jocelyn they'd set up during LOV. I don't know when he turned back up though; he's not in the pilot.

Don't engage. Block and move on and wait for it to burn itself out. I always do when another one of these shows up.

Deidre was, for awhile, a massive household star - double duty on those shows, both of which I remember at the time, and then a biopic movie starring herself. It's interesting that that's faded in recent times.

She was apparently involved in consulting on the Loving Murders. It showed in some of the production elements, promotion and bravura setpieces, IMO (the vignette with Danny and Ally's son stuck in a pit or whatever, with people's conversations being broadcast over radio in a very cinematic setup was straight out of her OLTL work). I don't know if she was involved in crafting The City. I do think losing Ava was a blow.

I agree. Fortunately I don't think Trek is anywhere near as oversaturated as Marvel or SW. One show is ending and that will leave only one live-action show, for now.

Star Trek is actually doing pretty well atm, after a rocky start with Discovery; the various other shows since are a lot better (well, Strange New Worlds, Prodigy, Lower Decks and the excellent final season of Picard which was mostly a strong victory lap for the TNG cast and will likely get a much-clamored-for spinoff with Jeri Ryan and co). The shows aren't the issue there, it's the platform (Paramount) which has had to repeatedly sell them or the past classic series off to other outlets for cash and is probably going to go down soon and be subsumed into Netflix or something else. The animated all-ages Trek spinoff, Prodigy, has already been ported to Netflix and renewed there. This from Paramount, which proclaimed itself 'the home of Trek' a year or so ago because it makes them their big money - just not enough to stay afloat. That's the streaming crash. I think Trek as a renewed franchise will survive elsewhere, but I don't think Paramount will. I do hope people look into FreeVee or other FAST platforms like Pluto. That's the key. Neighbours shows it, but no one in the States has the kind of faith in a soap that overseas execs seemingly do in Neighbours.

You think I won't see this @Darn?! Sleep with one eye open!* * - this is a joke, we are friends who are joking unlike the rest of this thread

Sydney was mentioned here and there in the final weeks/months of LOV as being a big deal and somewhat fearsome. But it wasn't really much and of course Fairchild didn't appear. Nonetheless, The City had great style and production value ahead of its time, and a cast that I thought had a lot of potential - the stories just were poorly done.

Lord. I liked Annalynne McCord on 90210 but she'll be a real interesting Abby recast if that turns out to be true, lol. What!

The UK soaps always splash out on good promotion. But the stories don't hold up in recent years. I am curious to see whatever this is just as a lapsed fan, but I never hang around since that unfortunate Michelle recast a few years ago. I do wonder where it streams now.

Just wanted to chime in the revival of Neighbours has been an extremely educational experience on Amazon FreeVee. You learn a lot watching a soap build or rebuild itself from the ground up, same as with AMC and OLTL 2.0. Similar lessons in some ways, but often more skillful build-up/pacing. I encourage everyone who's a scholar of the genre to check it out, and I'd never really watched it before. They appear to be making it work, unlike Prospect Park (with a lot more institutional support and BTS experience). I do think FreeVee-style ad-supported streaming is the only way forward for soaps. Was it @DramatistDreamer who always preached about FAST? AMC and OLTL were onto it too quick and had poor management and funding, but they could last if it were today (and probably arc-based with breaks - I don't think anyone over here is going to give the soaps the continued year-round capital Neighbours seems to have). And who knows, in another year or two the networks and streamers may be desperate enough for continued revenue to try. Which Khan said above (sorry Khan, I just need to stop @ing people in this post). IBut I agree with @Errol that primetime is a cutthroat zone, especially in the streaming era - nothing can be counted on to last, and the pacing of most network dramas is now incredibly accelerated and schizoid as of at least the last decade-plus. We saw that going back to even the first seasons of Empire, or the misbegotten Spelling soap revivals on CW. Letting story breathe is discouraged because they're scared people will turn them off and switch on Netflix.

I do think later would've helped. But there was no way they were gonna bump GH up or down the afternoon schedule for TC. GH by that time was already revitalized as the past and present flagship of ABC soaps, and kids everywhere (me included) flocked to it afterschool. (You don't wanna know how many school days I faked sick to catch OLTL an hour before, until I learned how to time-record a VCR.) In hindsight it's kind of a wonder GL survived as long as it did during this period at 3 PM opposite GH, but that's another thread.

The youth set on TC was more than enough for the show's demographics, I think. That was the focus in those days, hot young twentysomethings. Found family was not the draw of MP, but it was a common thing you saw in dramas or sitcoms at the time (Friends, etc.). It's true the popularity of MP evolved later in its more high-octane, super-soapy storytelling that began near the end of its first season, but I don't think TC's setup was at all uncommon for ensemble TV.