KMan101

Hogan was the Ron before Ron Carlivati LOL. Just randomly pulling out a son for Cricket who hadn't, if at all, been mentioned or referred to prior. I liked Hogan (he still had his many many flaws) before he was saddled with Jean.

Thanks for the playlist. I've been watching a private playlist. But I really enjoy 1994. I loved how JER brought back Laura, Bill and Mike. I too thought Bill was just around for the reveal but it was nice he stuck around longer. And yeah around 2010 they seemed invested in Nathan. Bill gave him the medical bag, I believe. Would have been nicer if Nathan were Jeremy at the time ... (and Trevor Donovan's Jeremy never stood a chance with the awful writing, I was turned off instantly, and I like Donovan now a lot). I also thought it was a missed opportunity not to use Nick Fallon to re-introduce Marie (at least we saw Jessica for a hot minute in 2012!) Now it feels like almost too much time has passed and it would feel weird to just plop, say Marie, back onto the show. And I know the show has literally no budget but I also always thought it was a mistake not to try and bring a few back every year at least for the Ornament hanging at Christmas ... Sony blows

Yeah. Daytime is very disconnected (probably an understatement ...) and unable to evolve. It's just a retread of basic "soap tropes" ... it has been since the late 90s. At least in the early 2000s shows still had an OK budget. Now? Ooof. But I digress ... I mean, look at how sexless the gay couples we have are. At least back in the early Wilson days they were allowed to roll around on the bed, take a shower together ... now they don't even touch lips when they kiss ... and Will in in his grandpa professor sweaters and Sonny with his greased back hair, as unsexy as you can get ... and then you have "Teriah" who make watching paint dry sound fun ... and Mariah's been slowly zapped over her personality over the years ... And then you have Leo living up to every cliche in the book ... it's either boring and basic or cliched extreme ... And then you had Luke, a hot mess, tied to the most boring man on the planet in Noah ... I appreciated the time they had Lucinda's younger man (Brian? Laurence Lau) make a pass at Luke but Daytime is soooo afraid. Could you imagine if Will Horton and EJ DiMera had a side thing instead of Abby and EJ and Sami found out? We'd never get that, but a UK soap would milk it to the heavens ... the pearl clutchers would die on the spot Other places are still a "bit" behind. Australia last year I believe only just had the first same sex male marriage on a soap ... Meanwhile, HollyOaks has a bunch of very different gay men (but I imagine the younger audience accepts it better) while EastEnders turns theirs into child traffickers ... so ... lol

to all of this! I'm in Florida so not a huge leap from 'Bama Glad to hear it about Huntsville! I've personally never desired to visit Alabama for a number of reasons, but I feel like I've always heard good things about Huntsville. I have a lot to say on the matter of folks who seem so bothered by who is doing who in their own private bedroom ... but I'm in a pretty good mood today so I'll sip my coffee and check back in a little later

LOL we would!

His dialogue was AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL. Characters come off SO dumb. Just really stupid. How actors got through that with a straight face ... lol. I do agree on your take on him and you're right, I can also find something good, usually, in any writer. For example I adored Mal dumping Kevin and Chelsea from Y&R yet I think he's trash ... lol. I find it kind of fun to dissect, I guess :/ 1994 was a good year. He had it in him to plot well ... and yep he knew the value of having A/B/C/D stories. There was *always* something going on or happening, even if you hated it you were probably entertained on some level. John and Austin were dumb as stumps during his run. Dim bulb model Austin was nothing like crying, sensitive boxer Austin. John, a smart man, was sooooooooooo dumb. And I hated how Reilly did Victor, "Tony" and Jack dirty in the writing (Jack's initial return under Valley wasn't too bad but it didn't last long ...). But I do agree he was ultimately damaging to the genre and we never recovered from it. I usually agree with you so no surprise I agree with you here again, lol. I was a kid too at the time of Reilly and I was pretty pulled in. Re-watching as an adult I see the awful dialogue, etc. lol. The day to day stuff was often tedious but I'll be damned if he didn't compell me to watch. But as a whole I can see why he's seen as so damaging to the genre. But it's sad because he kind of had it in him (he also benefited I believe from working with well known and better scribes who also knew how to plot a story and how to structure a soap opera). Again, all well said. Looking back at the posession, a lot of it was dark, gothic and sort of enthralling. I can get how audiences were pulled in (and also turned off) but then you have the demon mask thing and morphing into a panther .... lol I think it would generate a lot of buzz. I have no doubts Ron has thought of it. He loves referring to the possession. Other writers never acknowledged it (and I can understand why). I kinda like how DAYS is able to poke fun at itself a bit when referring to their history.

I think what's sad with Reilly is, like Ron Carlivati, I thought Reilly could craft a soap story with beginnings, middles and ends, but then somewhere it all went to hell and I don't quite get what happened. I'm not saying it was perfect but his 1999-2002 Passions is very different (even with Hell in a Closet!) than what followed. DAYS from 1993-1995 was very different than 1996/1997+ and especially his disastrous backpeddling 2003-2006 stint (where Lucas and Sami regressed into splitting up Carrie and Austin again, Billie's swamp baby was suddenly alive, half the town is murdered yet not really, but they drag it out for a year with Melaswen, a castle, etc. Lawd .... not to mention Sami as a man (sort of clever I suppose), Iraq ... lawd again). I feel more disappointed than angry, honestly. But there's no question he was ... damaging lol (not to mention all the soaps who piggybacked off of him, you had voodoo on AMC, Lumina on AW, Dolly the Reva clone on GL ...) but like the 80s, you had a lot of dumb [!@#$%^&*] too (Eterna on OLTL, etc.) ... so it's interesting to see how the soaps went from psychological dramas (mostly ...) to wacky sci-fi [!@#$%^&*] in the 80s that fans lapped up (the college kids, mostly), to back to more emotional character driven material in the early 90s and then back to ridiculous [!@#$%^&*]. The soaps haven't been the same since around 1997/1998, IMHO. And the slide started before that ... (since then they've been stuck in a rotating rotgut of producers and soap tropes that are vastly overplayed; soaps stopped evolving around 1995/1996 and now any "social issue story" basically flops ...) But it's weird, in the 80s, a lot of it gets praise now but I can only imagine the pearl clutchers as Luke was saving Port Charles from freezing ... were folks just more into that kind of stuff then? Was it because there were better production values? More heart? Better writing overall that could mask the ridiculous [!@#$%^&*]?

Yeah, those were the two I was referring to but I've never seen them for myself, personally. I think those were the only two, the rest all feel like shock value. Days seemed to love raping their leading ladies and it was really all about plot and not at all how it affected said character. I mean, I know Maggie was raped by Ian (right? Melissa's older probation officer who disappeared for a while then suddenly came back and was revealed as the rapist, but I could be mixing things up) the hospital rapist, and she had a gun for a while but it all just seemed like a plot device to keep her and Mickey apart a little longer. I also thought it was damaging when you had Don forcing himself on Marlena (though it was a different time and it was spousal rape, it was still a rape as far as I'm concerned, but it was basically treated like nothing, unless I'm wrong) and then not too long after, Kellam was raping her. Overall, I've never been a fan of rape stories because I see them for what they are ... not what they could and should be ... JER went bonkers with them on Passions ... but I think it just sadly speaks to his mental state at the time. He truly became very bizarre ... Anyway, on daytime royalty, Jason47 has been posting recaps and it's been a lot of fun to read the 80s stuff (and I'm watching what I can as well ... and there are some VERY detailed recaps that just suck you in, even a recap can suck me in but today the soaps do such a poor job of "drawing you in"), you can easily see the transitional periods where things would get dropped, characters in and out, and then around 85/86 you could clearly see them losing interest in Don, Liz, Neil, Marie (who basically was used as fill-in for Maggie while Suzanne Rogers was out for a year) ... I tended to get slightly disappointed in certain directions they took things. As much as I love the Bradys and Johnsons, I think they ultimately ended up taking a lot of focus away from the Hortons. Mickey and Maggie were finally reunited and only had the Neil/Sarah stuff a little later before no one had any interest in them. Marie sort of became forgotten about and then never brought back for long stints after that. Don disappeared mailing a letter (and they gave him no followup to Sonia's death, which I found odd, but they were clearly checked out on him, he was becoming the Mickey of Days before Mickey became that ... lol if that makes sense!). I thought Don filled a nice role but I'm glad Jed Allan went onto Santa Barbara (I've always loved Jed Allan but often have mixed feelings on Don) I have to admit I liked how they tied the DiMera's to the core players like Liz (through Tony and Stefano), and they involved Doug and Julie (before it became about Bo and Hope), Mickey ... but if you didn't watch at the time or read up like I do, you'd never know most of it ... and it seems "Stefano had plans for Julie" ... fascinating she could have been his obsession before it became about Marlena and Roman. Anyway, kind of random but it's fun, and interesting, to really see the transitions. I thought they gave couples a lot of ridiculous, stupid obstacles to overcome, LOL (which JER doubled down on in the 90s). Especially Melissa and Pete, lawd ...

I agree. I mean, Hogan Sheffer also played male rape for laughs on ATWT. It's repulsive and offensive. It's not kinky or hot or sexy. I wonder what place Ron gets in where he thinks a rapemance is sexy. Is that his fantasy? I mean ... I don't get it. I've never really liked soaps using rape, because it was often never about the actual victim and what they go through, it was always just a plot device for shock value, or punishing a character. It's often always rubbed me the wrong way. I think probably only one or two soaps really played it the way they should have.

PREACH! You are not wrong at all. Nothing to add (yet; I'm still working on my coffee ), your post perfectly summarizes him for me.

She's been off on-screen for a while, I see it too. She's very much checked out. I often feel like she plays Hope "lost" (since losing Bo) but of course it doesn't get written that way but that's how I'm choosing to look at it, lol. I think she probably enjoys working with Galen but she HAS to know this pairing has really sunk her and Hope is such a shell of who she used to be. But I guess loss can do that, except they don't play it out on-screen so either Kristian is making a choice or she's just truly checked out. She's so full of life off-screen ... LOL that dog wedding! Calliope and Eugene were SO bizarre. I like them at times but then I cringe all at the same time. Lawd. And absolutely it started going downhill before he arrived. And LOL at the list of Ron's tropes and it's order. But it's 100% accurate now that you listed it out. Sooooo true. I always thought he could fit DAYS and when he honors history in a good way, it works. He has it in him somewhere (I think a stronger co-hw would go a looong way) but he resorts to tropes or he starts writing petty garbage because he's checked out. I often wonder if writers pitch better stuff but then resort to more outlandish [!@#$%^&*] in order to get it approved ... And yep, we're at the mask phase Just wait folks ... Oddly though it works better on DAYS than on GH ... LOL, but it's still so ridiculous. But JER would be proud. (And I'm willing to buy it in this case, oddly enough ...) He tried the rapemance with "Gabby" and Stefan and it fell entirely flat so he lost interest and next thing you know Mansi is back to wrap it up (I wasn't her biggest fan but a part of me thinks, and it's just an assumption, that Miller bolted because she saw the writing on the wall with the rapemance with Stefan, but I'm probably wrong, LOL) and Chabby are shipped off (their exit was nice though ... I do think Ron has it in him ... but man he's beyond frustrating ... I'm not saying he's great but I've always thought he had it in him somewhere ... I know ... wishful thinking ... his runs on OLTL and GH all sort of repeated stuff ... and he loves his villain of the month ...)

I wasn't necessarily trying to imply the cast don't. I feel DAYS actors do try. A lot of actors are checked out (on all four soaps) and it's just so blatant. The conditions are much worse than they used to be, but back in the day, soaps would also work their actor 14-16+ days ... they're at a breakneck pace now and there's no time for rehearsals or re-shoots, etc. It's just become "it is what it is". But at the end of the day, like the commercials on TV say "just OK is not OK" Like GH fans have remarked that with Oscar's death the show proves it can still put in effort. Like Y&R fans have remarked that with the handling of Neil's memorial, the show can still put in effort, but they just don't the majority of the time. Not saying you're saying "just ok is ok" trust me I think daytime actors are extremely underrated and very hard working and don't get their just dues because soaps are looked down upon (and at times I fully understand why they are ...) I just think there was more care overall. They aren't given the time or budget now to care as much. And we just don't have quality producers or directors or even script writers like we used to. I can name a handful of those who are still good and I can see the effort when their names are on the credits ...

lol no worries I was like "Khan knows I know all this ..." lol but I know where you were coming from

SO dumb at times, LOL!!! And +1! You felt they cared and were committed to putting on a compelling and interesting show. I can be instantly drawn in yet nowadays I'm turned *off* ...

I know all this. I've seen Knots Landing multiple times LOL it's one of my absolute favorite shows ever. And I didn't like LML's tenure on Knots. She didn't have a clue what to do with Val. I liked some things, I suppose. She has very specific ideas for her shows but doesn't always quite fit the shows she's producing ...

Before I delve into my reply, I want to say thank you for the compliment!! I never know how I come across sometimes, LOL, so it's nice to hear. I have such a passion for daytime drama and it's stunning how wrong they get it so often. And I enjoy your posts as well. I love posting here because we're all so passionate. Even when some of us disagree we always end up finding common ground, LOL. I love our little community here Agreed so much on "daytime dramas are indeed dying from self inflicted wounds" SO SO SO SO TRUE. They only have themselves to blame, really. They spend a lot of time being annoyed by us who demand better instead of actually giving us better ... Thanks for your mom's reaction to the Brady invasion. It seems no one ever wants to be critical of that era but soaps have been suffering the same problems for a very very very long time ... I think it was just a different time so more fans just accepted it and enjoyed it (it irks me to see the death of Don and Marlena as a couple, but I always felt Don was too controlling, personally; and couples during the 80s eras were kept apart by really really really stupid things and misunderstandings, things Reilly just only doubled down on in the early 90s ...)

I didn't see a ton of it but I didn't enjoy Nina/Ryan/Victoria either. I remember liking Ryan but that story was painful. It's one of the first I remember when I started watching (as a younger person most soaps didn't get my attention until 1997/1998) and I think it was the tail end. I remember feeling like they deliberately made Nina clingy and like she was using her kid to hold onto Ryan. But I still loved Tricia Cast I'm so annoyed Nina is nowhere to be found now. At least that hack MAB brought her back :/

Yeah, I love Anderson but the show really veered off track as everyone got all hot and bothered by the super couples and adventures. Not saying the show wasn't good but it became a different show before Reilly did his own damage later on (to be fair, I see a lot of silly stupid stuff we'd all rip to shreds now, and the show still had some flaws I see still today ...) But back then, there was a budget, and folks seemed to genuinely care more about putting out good quality stuff, even when it was a bit cringey and dumb. Personally I found Calliope and Eugene to be absolutely exhausting and tiresome characters most of the time. I wonder how fans really felt as all these new people just randomly started showing up and dominating airtime. I know it was a different time, writers developed characters better, the show just looked better, actors were invested, etc. but a lot of the same complaints we often have today I could see folks having then ... but it seems folks want to look at things through nostalgia and rose colored glasses. But I'd take any of it over today's crap. And to be fair, it still had heart, a sense of community, stories while dumb still had beginnings, middles and ends and lead into other stories, they still tried to bring back certain characters other regimes have long given up on. I can see why fans ate it up, but again, I see a lot of flaws ... lol They had the best opportunity in 2010 to resurrect the Hortons as a true core family and they failed. They trotted them out for Alice and promptly forgot about all of them. It's weird how Ron seemed to want to write for Lucas and Bryan Dattilo initially but then it suddenly stopped, Lucas was MIA for a lot of Will's return and then randomly paired back with Chloe before being written out. So strange. Another Horton was out the door ... It's also so sad that vital characters like Carrie, Philip, Shawn and Belle are all off canvas, to name just a few. They do give Sarah, IMO, plenty of time with Maggie (but it felt bizarre to see her just sitting there grimacing as Victor was rude as hell to Sarah for no reason but because he's a grumpy ass old man, you'd never know they were mother and daughter half the time ... and Sarah's Will's family too but you'd never know it when they're interacting during Will's 6 episode brain tumor story), but really with no one else. The lack of episode guarantees probably plays into this. You can't have Sarah and Jen or Sarah and Hope interacting because you need to use Kristian's appearances for her own story and in Ciara's story ... so other things lack. People don't seem to agree when I say it but Episode Guarantees are really hurting this show. This may sound simplistic but I'm just no longer drawn into soaps like I am when I watch anything from the past. There's very little depth anymore. Not that soaps weren't always a bit hollow at times, but I really feel they're so hollow now. I watch out of loyalty. Nothing I see really ever truly drags me in anymore. It's really sad. I can pick just about any episode, even a bad one, from the past and be instantly drawn in and interested.

lol I know, I've been doing that lately posting comments in threads and then realizing it was better suited for another thread ... oh well! lol And very much agreed.

I never made that connection, but that's interesting ...

Exactly. I'd love to commend LML for making Nikki a driven character and a strong female wanting to be in politics, but that was NOT Nikki. Jill ... sure I guess I could have bought it somewhat. She had no idea who Nikki was. MTS seemed to enjoy some of it on-screen though, IMHO but I do remember her speaking out about it and basically it wasn't who Nikki was, and she's right. But this was a time period I was starting to tune in less for ...

Ok. To be fair most of the current criticism seems to be intense focus on one character eating the show so I guess he's nowhere near JFP level of damage ... but I can't comment much and probably shouldn't have since I'm not really watching ... lol

They missed out on years of Victor and Casey clashing over Nikki, IMHO ... Probably one of the reasons they did away with Casey so she couldn't be the voice of reason for Nikki where Victor is concerned LOL (heck I'd even buy the explanation of the lack of mentions of Casey to they stopped speaking to each other ... but I think that shipped has sailed ...) YES! Good way to put it. Kay did feel like an enabler to Nikki and her toxic relationship with Victor. Kay always had a blind eye to Victor (Kay wasn't originally a saint ... so maybe she had no room to judge ... LOL)

To be fair, I think even when the shows are already in terrible condition (but a lot of that could just be viewer preference ...) it sounds like he hammers it home even more and does even more damage. I haven't watched the UK soaps in a long while (and my viewing is often sporadic and I haven't seen enough of Corrie and EastEnders or Emmerdale's glory days, so I can't comment on quality) but I try to keep up with the gossip and read the threads in here whenever anyone decides to post in them. It does sound like he's a very damaging producer. But like the US soaps, the UK soaps just seem to keep recycling the same few, and many of them left when their shows were terrible under them, yet they get hired elsewhere ... that's never made sense to me.

Agreed. Or even in 1997 when the show (GL) was in slightly better shape (not by much but by 1998 the show really went to hell and pretty much never recovered) ... Shows have missed so many opportunities .... And Neil's death should have resulted in correcting the wrongs in Hilary and Dru's deaths. But nope. They'll all probably be relegated to Wednesday's again. Yet Cane soldiers on somehow ... while Hilary is in the ground. Something is just so wrong with that. And with Nate on, you don't even BOTHER to try and include Olivia? Ever? Just "we tried but she couldn't"? Any viewer after 2008 probably hasn't a clue who Olivia is. I couldn't believe (but I could I guess) some "fans" on Twitter not seeing a need or wanting Dru back even if they acknowledged "the show did her (Rowell) dirty". They see no point (but thankfully most others do) even when I point out her SON is there (Devon), her nephew (Nate), her grandchildren (Mattie and Charlie) ... so what if three of them don't even know her? You know what you do then? You bring back Olivia too! It's not that hard but they don't care. To some fans without Neil and Christel's Lily they don't care. I say bring Christel on to play Dru's return and then just recast down the road if Christel has moved on. Imagine the grief of Dru coming back only to discover her beloved Neil is gone. It WRITES ITSELF! lol Let's continue to blacklist Victoria Rowell (and trot her out to say goodbye to Kristoff, which was a nice gesture but it's starting to ring hollow, but at least she was allowed to pay her respects to him on-screen) but hey bring back Greg Rikaart, Melissa Claire Egan, recast Adam ... sigh. And fans just eat all of this up. I couldn't believe how excited many of them were for Rikaart and Egan's return. Mind-boggling. While I never expected anything to truly happen on the Rowell front with Steve Kent still at Sony, I mean it's so blatant why she's being kept from the show, yet no one is truly calling them on it. And when Rowell does, it's like crickets chirp. I don't get it. Sorry for the Y&R rant ... wrong thread for it, lol but I got carried away. Back to DAYS ....