carolineg

Agree on Sarah Brown, but I would say Tamara Braun.  GH twice, Days twice, and AMC.  Granted she was popular on her first stints on Days/GH, but her 2nd stints were failures.  

Scott Clifton was/is heavily pushed on all his soap roles. 

Michael Easton in all his roles especially his 10 million GH roles.

Are we talking about multiple failures in roles or just one really heavily pushed role like Cameron Mathison or Alicia leigh Willis (not counting her fairly minor AW role)?

13 minutes ago, ChitHappens said:

 

I'm super happy the real couples prior to Frank are getting some play and their fans, who are long past a payoff are at least getting this (expect for the dreadful CarSon).  

 

And I'll add to the 217th conversation about who is the best Carly...LW is my Carly.  She is fun and funny as hell.  Brings loads of energy and never phones it it.  Really good actress and a joy to watch.  She has no problem generating chem with the men she's paired with.  But she's not watchable now at all because Frank doesn't care about the character and the Benard pairing is a 500 pound chained rock no one needs.  

 

I didn't see Carly/Brenda prior to LW so I can't add too much but Megan Ward and LW had pretty great chemistry and the Kate used to put down Carly and her outfits was gold.  She really got under Carly's skin.  I loved them until someone got the bright idea that Kelly Sullivan s/b Kate 

I mean there isn't a ton of Carly/Brenda before LW.  VM and TB's Carly had a lot of run ins  in 2002-2003 and played it well but VM and SJB didn't really work with each other much in the 90's.  They disliked one another but it was more because of Robin/Jason than anything.  There is probably only a handful of scenes between SJB and VM.  Come to think of it, I can't think of any scenes of SJB and Benard before he came back to the show in 1999.  He must have really wanting a Sonny/Carly pairing lol.

I loved Megan Ward!  I loved her Kate and her perfect hair.  It was a Sonny pairing I actually enjoyed.  I miss her and she did bother Carly endlessly so that was enjoyable.  I just feel like Carly goes after any woman of the moment in Sonny's life and it's fine, but we know said woman is not going to last, so what's the point?

Ugh Kelly Sullivan-the 33 year old contemporary to Sonny lol.  Fine Actress, but just all wrong for Kate.

2 hours ago, Darn said:

 

Yeah, didn't Shawn go from 13 to 16? That's not bad at all.

Belle, Shawn, Phillip were aged in 1999  so 12 to 16?  But Colin O'Donnell seemed maybe 13 or 14.  So not bad at all.

I believe Shawn and Phillip were older than Belle initially but then they became the same age at some point.  And initially they had Belle going after 20 something Brandon Walker lol. 

6 hours ago, Taoboi said:

Hmmm....Brenda. lol. But that said, yes, I find LW Carly more enjoyable when she is scheming and being against somebody. My problem is that at this point the only person who seems to get under her skin like no other IS Brenda. For all of its flaws, one thing Brenda's last return did was put VM back in character cuz the Brenda I know would have gave as good as she got during the Dante storyline against Carly. I guess the closest person on the current canvas would be Ava...but are they in a truce? And of course, Nelle is. But there is just something about women with as much of a long history around each other as Bren and Car. 

 

As for KeMo, she just plays vixen so much better than heroine. Her Livvie was one of my favorite character and I felt KeMo came to life when they tore her and Jason apart and Liason became a thing. She was love to hate and not just hate. She's very good at yes, you know what she is doing is wrong, but you understood WHY she was doing it. Even when she is doing it to one of your faves...which for me is Liz. 

I think Brenda is probably Carly's best foil because they do have so many men in common.  And it let's Carly be more of the bad girl to Brenda's mostly good girl.  Plus it brings out Carly's insecurities in way no other character ever has. Brenda and/or Robin are the only 2 characters that could probably "win" against Carly.  But the greater problem with Carly, Brenda aside, it that she is the Queen of Port Charles now and that should never have happened.  I would take her making up insane revenge plots against anyone at this point.  I don't think Nelle counts because we are supposed to actively root against her.  Carly has foils on the canvas (Liz, Sam, Alexis, Ava) but she basically made up with all of them at this point lol.  I'd root for Dante to come back just so Carly can plot to ruin his life again.

As far as KeMo goes maybe it's not her but the fact Sam is just a lame character.  Sam should be more of a vixen than she is especially considering her con woman backstory.

8 minutes ago, Vee said:

They didn't, no. The writing was never there for Shawn or Belle even when Cook and Storms first started - it was always crap. At least Shawn now can be defined by his job.

 

As for Belle, what's so common or unrealistic about her having a profound sexual pull to Phillip as well as complex history, and being bored with her life? It happens to men and women everyday. It happened to John and Marlena, albeit for much more complex emotional reasons, but at core there was always the sexual need as well. There is a reason their defining moment is [!@#$%^&*] on a conference table.

I mean it's not unrealistic in real life for Belle to do that .  But I wish John/Marlena's daughter had more motivation due to her conception and life circumstances.   Like go with the flow and make true parallels.  John/Marlena had legit reasons for banging.  I don't think Belle ever did even if it was hot.

2 hours ago, Vee said:

Belle is blank bc the writing at DOOL is subpar and Martha Madison is the acting equivalent of rice paper.

 

But the affair with Phillip was hot, and why did they need to make it about something else? At the time, based on what was onscreen, I believed it was the oldest reason in the world - she was bored in her marriage, was hot for Phillip and wanted to fućk. The truest motivation soaps too often try to avoid today for dumb puritanical reasons.

 

With the right actors and a better writing team that adult Chloe/Shawn/Belle/Phillip quad could've gone years.

Lol  I think MM is fine.  I just think John/Marlena's daughter needs more motivation for an affair than a quick [!@#$%^&*].

She's such an important character that they never developed well.  But I don't think they developed Shawn d that well either.  Chloe/Mimi/Phillip are much more well rounded.

14 minutes ago, ranger1rg said:

#HardPass2

I didn't realize there was a best of JaSam  because I think it's a very relative term lol

20 minutes ago, ranger1rg said:

The Nurses Ball from 2018?
 

#HardPass

Best of Jasam is up next lol

Jax and Sonny on Gh?  That's pretty longstanding for GH 

13 minutes ago, provocative said:

Yeah, that was the thing - she was used to that kind of lifestyle. Her and Philip were of the same class (in so much as Days had some small sense of class structure back then) while Shawn was not because his parents just had regular service jobs. But like I said, this was always something Days would briefly reference and attempted to focus on when she was cheating on Shawn but not with any due diligence. 

I never fully grasped Belle's cheating.  I don't feel like they ever gave a true reason for it outside of her mourning her dad's "death"
She's never been given the depth Marlena or Sami had.  Heck even Carrie.  She's always been a good girl with some bad tendencies.  

Belle's never had any sorta of growth at all.  She's good with her family and fine with Shawn but she's almost a blank canvas with her emotions.  And we've never had any indication she had a bad childhood except for the fact it kinda was for the first 5-6 years of her life.  But the show doesn't say that.   I have never even heard Belle talk about the facts of her conception or face it.  She must know but the show doesn't even give her that.

19 minutes ago, provocative said:

I think I see more of a similarity to Shawn/Caroline/Victor too - one of the things they tried to do with Shawn/Belle/Philip, without much success because the show didn't have any nuance, was have social class be a component. Belle spent her marriage to Philip pining for Shawn and then once they were together the difference between being with someone 'blue collar' and someone who had private jets on demand became more stark. I can't remember if they ever resolved or addressed that tension properly. And now there isn't really any point because I'm pretty sure everyone on Days has access to a private jet 

I never thought of it that way.  Interesting take.  But would it matter to Belle already having access to her Daddy's private plane?  John and Marlena are rich.  There was never a shortage of money for her.

I never truly bought someone like Victor would be that into Caroline so it was never a viable triangle to me even if obviously it's a canon. 

I really always equated it to Belle being fickle like her mom even though obviously that take has come and gone since Marlena's been with John for years. 

But I can see your point about Belle being accustomed to a certain lifestyle and Shawn just wasn't providing it.

I may be clueless as well because they gave Soapnet all those episodes to air for the 50th.   I don't get why it's such a huge problem.  Like they literally preempted the entire daytime lineup to show the best of Brenda 10 years ago lol.  It can't possibly be that expensive to pay these actors their residuals

I think we all knew this was coming when they announced the best of Sonny/Carly.  I really need GH to man up and do some actual classic episodes.  Best of Luke/Laura?  Best of Anna/Robert?  Anything other than episodes we don't care about lol.  I would welcome ugly crying through BJ's heart or Stone's death or even Clink Boom. What's next the best of Friz?  The best of Jax/Nina lol

33 minutes ago, MichaelGL said:

I felt that over time Shawn/Belle/Philip started to mirror Grandpa Shawn/Caroline/Victor, but perhaps I was just reading too much into the triangle at the time.

Maybe?  I just thought it was an obvious play on Roman/John/Marlena due to the affair being the cause of Belle's conception.  Like mother like daughter thing.  But again, Belle's motivations weren't as clear.

17 minutes ago, provocative said:

I think Shawn and Belle are both pretty uninteresting characters on their own but they were "uninteresting" in the way Bo and Hope are and I think they were supposed to be written in that vein - or at least that was the case when they were younger and played by Jason and Kristen. I don't think they would have been written off back in 2007 or whenever if the original actors had still been in the roles despite how underdeveloped the characters are. Aging them so quickly and then aging their kid (though I do also love Claire) have definitely been big problems

 

I think Philip is the most viable character from that group because they bothered with things like flaws and motivation when it came to him. With Shawn and Belle, the writers pretended they had perfect childhoods and perfect parents and obviously stuff like that is detrimental when it comes to creating interesting characters long-term

Part of the problem has always been Shawn/Belle were endgame before we even knew them.  MM has much better chemistry with JkJ. I don't have a problem with Shawn D and Belle having perfect childhoods because it mostly seems like they were raised just fine despite devil possessions, back from the deads, and kidnapping lol.  It's not like they were Sami seeing her mom and fake dad banging on a conference room table so I'll allow it.   But they do fall into the uninteresting category because they don't have any faults or any true character traits.

Phillip is by far the most interesting and viable because he has grey areas in his personality that Shawn/Belle aren't really allowed.  And JKJ is a great performer.

Claire is the best thing to come out of Belle/Shawn and their relationship.  Surprised they didn't give them more kids.

3 minutes ago, Manny said:

Yeah, I feel the same.

And while I love MM (Beemer was nothing special back when I watched), I felt like she was also a part of the reason why Belle felt too old. They went from a baby face Kirsten Storms to a mature looking Martha. 

Well MM is far too close to Alison Sweeny in age so it is weird.  But she looks like John/Marlena and does decent work.  Belle is just overall a mess of a character.  I know they wanted Shawn/Belle/Phillip to parallel Roman/John/Marlena, but Belle basically comes off wishy-washy because the history was never there for her to bounce back and forth between the two.  And John/Marlena still drive story so it's silly for their only biological child to not be on the show full time.  Also, they aged Claire way too much even though I truly enjoy Olivia Keegan and she looks spot on to be Belle's kid.

Beemer is fine.  Nothing special but nothing horrible. 

That being said I will always prefer Kirsten as Belle and Jason as Shawn so it's a toss up.  I would 100% prefer Shawn/Belle to Sarah/Xander and their whining.  

5 minutes ago, Manny said:

I agree with you, @MichaelGL but I think that could have still been corrected 10 years ago. They could have built them up instead of shipping everyone out of Salem.

Also, in my opinion, it did not help that they aged them quite quickly. It felt like to me that they went from college to being like 30 very quickly. 

 

All in all, shame that it happened like that...  

 

 

Absolutely.   They could have built them up and they went from Last Blast teens to marriage and babies very quick.

I do think I like Belle and Shawn mostly because of who their parents are.  You want to love John/Marlena's only child or Bo/Hope's son.  I don't think I like them on their own merits and that's a shame because I think MM and BB are fairly capable performers and JkJ and NB are really good.

8 minutes ago, All My Shadows said:

And this is exactly what I  mean when I say IMPATIENT. At some point, where does the writer say "That would be a great story, but obviously, since Nicholas is TWO YEARS OLD, we're not ready for that yet, but man, in a couple of years, it'll be great!" I mean, by the early 90s, if I'm a soap writer, and SORAS has been going on for at least 30-40 years, then of course I'm going to use it, so I'm not bashing the writers who did use it at all. It's just the idea of it.

 

Like, I fully admit to being nearly cartoonish in my hatred for it  

Then de-SORASing. Someone who knows all the specific ages and years can outline the mess with Erica and Kendall on AMC, but we were supposed to buy Erica as being in her 40s throughout the 2000s. Like really?

It's the same way we bought Marlena being pregnant at 60.  And how she hasn't aged in years lol.  They are just daytime queens and we have to allow it lol.

14 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

I remember Belle around 2005/2006 mentioned her 21st birthday was coming up and I just a poster on another website at the time “Doesn’t that make Sami 37 years old?!?” I die laughing still!

Haha!  it doesn't help that Martha Madison is practically the same age as Ali Sweeney either. And EM is about 10 years too old to play Brady.  But Sami became at grandma at like 33 lol  And they aged Claire way too quick as well.

I get why they didn't make Belle/Will contemporaries, but it would have been way more awesome if they did.  Imagine the drama.

2 hours ago, provocative said:

I think Will was the last character on Days who aged naturally while still being on the show and reacting to what his parents did as a kid/teenager too. Abby as well maybe but she was on and off the show a lot. JJ is the opposite because he was born when Abby was a teenager but now the show acts like they grew up together and that there isn't a big age gap.

 

I also hate how they've messed up the ages of Sami/Eric/Brady/Belle. You'd think they were all in the same age bracket when that should obviously not be the case

Sami/Eric/Belle/Brady bother me to no end.  Sami was 15 when she kidnapped baby Belle.  It's annoying to the audience to just forget that when her existence drove story for years.   Also Paul being Will's age is annoying because he was basically born right after Belle in the retcon.

17 minutes ago, Dion said:

Absolutely lol.

 

Just remembered that I was telling somebody about EJ just last week.

 

In fact now that I come to think of it, EJ probably was the original inspiration of this thread!

He should be lol

Christie Clark's Carrie is the only child I can think of on Days that aged basically naturally even if she was replaced by Sexy!Older!Carrie for awhile.

I think Sami is a good example of someone who was SORASed and it worked fine and with a good story. Although kinda crappy parenting on Roman/Marlena's part to just let her parents raise Eric in Colorado until he was like 22 lol.

I do hate the trope where the kids are at boarding school or camp and come back a million years older.  Like how many people, especially middle class people, send their kids to boarding school in real life?

3 hours ago, Dion said:

 

Yes, Leah's sorasing is one that I'd consider egregious. Didn't she leapfrog her older half-brother Jude in age?

 

 

I actually pretty much agree with all of this.

 

 

Not quite the same but that reminds me of Belle - who I believe was a 5 or 6 year old flower girl at John and Marlena's wedding, but had turned into 15 year old Kirsten Storms by the time John and Marlena got back from that horror honeymoon in Hawaii (barely a month later).

Haha!  Belle was jarring.  I was going to say that.  And she was such an important child due to her history/conception.  Days probably could have waited on that or at least found a Brady at the same time.

Robin on GH and Starr on OLTL are really good examples of kids growing up and still being relevant in stories.  

Can I list EJ on Days as most egregious?  He was born after Will but is Sami's age lol?

It's so strange how Hope is so isolated from her family.  I know John and Marlena mentioned her in the convo about Claire, but shouldn't she be in the scene with them and not off with Steve?  Because the audience is super investing in Hope and Steve together lol.   

4 minutes ago, ChitHappens said:

 

Super pointless.  Felt like a last minute rewrite to give rise to something else.  

I can't remember what it really led to.  All I remember is feeling bad for Johnny even though he was sleeping with Connie/Kate and Carly at the time lol.  I wonder if it was a swipe at SJB since she didn't have the best things to say about her stint as Claudia after it was over.

49 minutes ago, ChitHappens said:

 

Thank goodness Claws was dead when this was revealed so viewers got over it rather quickly because there is absolutely no way folks would not be distracted by how ridiculous it was.

True, but the fact that she was dead made it utterly pointless too.  And Sonny revealing it to everyone was just gross and awful.