carolineg

11 minutes ago, Vee said:

I don't even like Sonny (and I despise him now) or Brenda much, much less the couple, and the show was regularly a shitheap by 2010-2011, but several of their key scenes in her return that year was some of the best work either ever did. And their final scenes together as Sonny told her power was all that lasted that he could hold onto in his life, not love, were incredible.

 

 

From that point on any other romance with Sonny - for Brenda or anybody else - became pointless, because that scene is the crux of the character today. That is who he is. If he couldn't give it up for Brenda or his children he'll never give it up for anyone. Unless you are able to convincingly present Sonny as a man willing to reforge his entire life and state of being beyond that power complex he's had since childhood, there is nothing to talk about.

 

He is marking time with Carly because they are safe and familiar to each other, and to me the only way he could approach a realistic happy ending or character change is to pay for at least some of his crimes, give up the mob and throw himself at Brenda's feet. And even that would probably never be enough.

It's a beautiful scene.  When Brenda just sums it up so easily. I love you but just don't like you anymore. And when he says I will love forever  I just die inside  But it will never change the intrinsic problem in their relationship: the mob.  He's is biding time with Carly, but S&B are endgame.

3 hours ago, Taoboi said:

THIS.

 

I definitely agree that S/B still have a decent size fan base and those scenes when she came back and they talked about the letter (kudos to Ron for remembering how she left last time) were good scenes. As was her rivalry with Carly during that Nurses Ball. That said...if Brenda was to come back, I liked the idea already discussed because that story writes itself versus this Kim stuff. Barring that, it would be nice to see Brenda back and being her own person BEFORE getting with someone NEW before someone (Sonny or Jax) complicate it. 

Sonny and Brenda are still viable.  They have mad chemistry, but it's same old, same old if he remains in the mob.  It's a deal breaker for Brenda so I feel like they would almost only be endgame when he leaves the mob for HER.  Jax and Brenda were still an option until the 2013 return.  Sucks they bled both couples dry. 

9 hours ago, dragonflies said:

IMO I wouldn't be surprised if VM said no, cause she's repeatedly said on twitter she hates the Alec storyline and basically it never happened

Lol well she should have said yes because it would have killed Alec off for good.  I would be surprised if Alec's existence is a deal breaker for VM, but maybe it is.  Since he isn't related to anyone on canvas they could easily say he was in boarding school in Italy and not have to deal with him.  Or the show could be smart and just retcon him into Jax's as he should have been in the first place.

I think the VM/Brenda's Oscar's mom thing is a fan theory only.  The show was being super mysterious about Oscar's mom when he was first on the show and Brenda being Oscar's mom would have been an actual decent story, so of course it was untrue.  I actually assumed it would be something more exciting than Kim, but was wrong too. They also had Mike mention Brenda quite a few times when he first starting reappearing around the same time.  I don't think VM was ever contacted or anything.

As for GH, I think they would be stuck in a hard place if they ever brought Brenda back.  Yes, I agree S/B/J is super played out, but I think S/B still have a decent size fan base and people would complain if they paired her with someone new.  The show seems fairly invested in Carson though so who knows?  I would think at some point with Jax back they will probably see if Vanessa wants to return.  It's not like she's doing much more than a Lifetime movie every year or so.

So I was watching some old nurses balls and saw the face of the heart themes a lot.  Does anyone else find it strange it ended on Mac for a number of years?  Luke, Laura, The Q's were all spread out but there is Mac last.  It generally ended on a configuration of Brenda, Jax, Robin, Felicia, then Mac.

I could actually buy KA and PR weren't thrilled to see her.  Days just got rid of the DH's and MBE and SN-and spent money on CC.  I could imagine the feeling on the set was a little fearful for everyone.  My problem with CC is she had a chaste lesbian romance at the end of her long, unremarkable GL run that gave her some rabid stans and gave her a sense of power when she was basically just a B list soap actress, who has a long history of being difficult.  Plus she had the soap press and her ultimate stan behind her Nelson Branco.  Glad to see neither are relevant today.  I am not even a Hope/KA fan but >>>>>>>>>>>CC always.

The Eckerts on GH.  They spent a lot of time on the family only to be completely gone a few years later never to be spoken of again.  Poor Lucky never got to see his buddy Sly again.   I get why, but man, they wasted a lot of screen time on Bill and Jenny.

7 hours ago, Wendy said:

 

I recall reading during her first stint that - supposedly - she and Deidre Hall did not get along because Carly became very popular with Bo and was garnering a lot more airtime at Marlena's expense. And Round 2 had her feuding with Kristian Alfonso, which seemed sort of life imitating art since Carly was now the interloper to Bo and Hope. I just recall a lot of fur flying.

 

I never watched Guiding Light, so I don't know if there was less drama there or not.

I am not sure if Carly's airtime was at Marlena's expense.  I don't think it's why Marlena's airtime significantly decreased in 1992, but it really was the Carly show that year.  Carly was involved in everything and I don't find CC to be that interesting or that good.  I think Staci Greason leaving and the decision to kill Isabella off just stalled the Roman/Marlena/John affair story.  I don't think it had anything to do with Carly.  I would have loved to see the alleged screaming match at the studio between them though.

As for round 2 and her and KA, I think the whole social media thing was clearly CC drinking boxed wine and making poor decisions.   I can't even remember the details of the feud anymore but I remember reading CC's tweets thinking this woman is clearly intoxicated.   CC just comes off as a boozy, trashy, past her prime soap actress that let a few Otalia fans love go to her head and gave her a ridiculous sense of self-importance. 

Lots of fuss over CC/Carly for a character that's basically just a footnote in Days history.

12 hours ago, SoapDope said:

Coleen Zenk was also a diva at ATWT. Lots of stories there.

 

Any stories of Deidre Hall at Days ? Bill Bell said when she finished at Y&R in 1976 he sent her over to Days for the role of Marlena Evans. He said Dee never thanked him for it and ignored him over the years. 

 

Dorothy Green who played Jennifer Brooks on Y&R in the 70's had a chip on her shoulder about how her character and all the other older women were written. When Bill Bell killed her character off in 1977, she was very vocal in the press about it. 

 

Terry Lester was pissed about Lauralee Bell taking over the show and was very vocal about it. Jeanne Cooper said he burned a lot of bridges over the years with his attitude. 

 

Peter Bergman comes across as a diva. He hated the Vietnam wife/child story and the family was quickly written out. 

 

Victoria Rowell.

There are a lot of stories about Deidre being jealous of Crystal Chappell.  Jealous of her screen time to the point they fought on set.  Who knows?  CC seems like a random person to start a feud with.  Plus the non set stories of her feud with Susan Lucci.  I love the SOD anecdote about the cover her and Susan shot where they told each actress to come in a specific color and Dee just ignored it and went with red, which Susan was supposed to wear so Susan just literally wore her negligee instead.  That's the silly diva stuff I love to hear about. 

Oh and Melody Thomas Scott rolling her eyes at the SOD awards when Deidre won.

  This is awesome!  I love the 90's soap opera diva petty cattiness!

Has anyone mentioned Robert Kelker Kelly on AW and Days?

1 hour ago, KMan101 said:

 

To be fair with Garcia and Taggert, I always felt they were written to be "wrong" and Sonny/Jason to be "right" so of course they were over the top ... I saw through the blatant writing. lol

 

I know. The show does need a major shakeup. Unfortunately I've lived through enough to know we'd lose who we like and not the ones we think should go  sooooo .... but still. It's past time. There's been a lot more outcrying lately about the state of the show, such as Frank and his pets, firing him, the writers, how Monaco is doing her best Chandler Massey and thinking about pizza (who could blame her? but she's been meh for years and years now ...)

 

And then you read interviews with Altman and Van Etten and the whole tease for the Robert/Anna/Finn stuff sounds ridiculous. What they really want to say is "we're forced to do Anna and Finn so we're using Robert to make things interesting for them because they're so goddamn boring together". Robert's only angst for them, he's not a real threat. But he should be.

 

The show could be so much better. They have tons of veterans still able and willing. They have a lot of good castmembers. But Frank is and has been the problem for a long time. Even during Ron's time period, lots of folks blamed him for certain things but it's clear it's Frank who's the problem (I also think Nathan Varni is destructive and clueless), but that's not to defend the writers. Ron was a hot mess (to put it nicely) after his first year and Shelly and Chris, while not awful (and I would like to see them without Frank or without interference), aren't exactly setting the world on fire with their writing. So it's time to clean house. But again I wouldn't mind seeing how Shelly and Chris did without Frank and him forcing his pets on them.

Lol!  Chandler Massey's smirking is much more exciting than any acting Kelly Monaco has done as Sam.  She is one of the most boring, monotone, lifeless performers ever.  She has always looked like she was thinking about what she was going to order from the bar after work in her scenes.  I don't get why JaSam or Sam are popular, but they are. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I guess the biggest difference between 1997 and now is literally none of the stories in 1997 made sense in that episode posted above, but there was an energy and spark to the show.  There are certain performers that are still bringing it but everything feels stale.  Again the stories aren't awful they just aren't good.  Robert should never be just angst for Finn/Anna.  When you get Tristian Rogers back use him.   The Ryan story is probably the best story right now and it had it's good moments, but now is seems to be dragging.  And DOD is literally taking over the show, but I think Shiloh is a pretty good actor.

I wonder what Shelly and Chris could do without Frank.  They aren't really destructive, but I get the sense they aren't allowed to write what they really want or for who they really want.  It must be hard to write for the character of Franco as a hero and a viable love interest for Liz.  I agree it seems like Frank has a lot of control.  It's a shame Ron's first year on Gh was so good and it all fell apart.  He's been just passable on Days, nothing he's done there has been as good as GH's first year under him.

Sadly something needs to change and soon.  I just get the feeling GH is slowly dying right now.

49 minutes ago, Khan said:

If you ask me, Wendy Riche was just keeping up a tradition that was started by none other than Gloria Monty.  I mean, when was the last time GH DIDN'T have a cast member who could also sing, or whose songs weren't promoted by the show?  Rick Springfield, John Stamos, Jack Wagner, and I'm sure there were others.

I get it, but all those characters were actually popular?  I have no problem with singing really, but it's bizarre how charismatic Ricky Martin was on stage and how dull he was on GH.  He is so handsome and I wanted to like him, but I don't think he had any chemistry with anyone in the cast romantic or non romantic.  Miguel was pushed as the hero and the best hospital orderly/bartender ever-his singing was the least annoying thing about him.  He was given two really big love interests in Brenda and Lily and had plenty of story.  I am surprised he would shade GH.

Ricky Martin doesn't speak very fondly of his time at GH.  Mostly about the cast not accepting him if I recall.  I honestly always felt GH/Wendy Riche did him a solid by featuring him and his music so heavily when he wasn't popular at all.

10 hours ago, KMan101 said:

 

Exactly.

 

I'd still take her back though, LOL

 

But sadly most competent producers and writers have no interest anymore, due to years of interference, etc. They've basically all been driven out. Hence the recycling of hacks.

 

1997 was ... not good but like you said ... I'd take it back anyday over whatever this is now ... hell 2018 was better than 2019 has been. It's not even offensive or destructive, really, it's just ... not good. It feels like it's on autopilot.

 

I LIVED for Garcia and Taggert's hatred of Sonny and Jason.

Garcia and Taggert were totally over the top with their hatred and in 1997 I actually disliked them being so mean to Jason/Sonny because teenage me didn't think the anger was justified.   Now I would love for a character, any character to hate Sonny and Jason because they are actual criminals.  I want them both to come back immediately and just bother Sonny/Jason like they used to.

I would agree that the show now isn't offensive.  It's just there.  It's boring   I feel like even when things happen it's boring.  GH still has an okay budget and some good actors everything just moves so slowly or not at all.  The show needs a major shake up.  I would fire a lot of the cast (Nina, Finn, Peter, Valentin, Kim, Franco, Drew etc-the ones that make some money) and bring back some vets (insert about 10 names that would work).   Bringing Jax back was a start but some other recent casting announcements make me wonder why are we wasting time on this?

1 hour ago, victoria foxton said:

 

GH wasn't very good back then.  I mean, miles ahead of where it is now, but all those stories were duds.  Nik/Stefan/Katherine?  Awful and boring and GH was weirdly obsessive about re-pairing Patch and Kayla.  Bobbie and Stefan were good together. 

Jax with V following him around because the police think he is a drug dealer? Stupid.  Clearly they had no idea what to do with Ingo after S/B/J round 1 ended.  V was okay though. 

The Dr. Dorman murder veering into the Tin Man saga for Sonny and Brenda?  Probably their worst story of the 90's.  I still don't really understand how it all lead back to Lily's dad. 

Thank god for the Nurse's Ball, but I genuinely disliked that twit Gina Cates.  Caring about her brother 1 1/2 years after his death?  Great.  Glad you couldn't be bothered to show up when he was dying.

Sidenote:  I do get a kick out of how much Garcia and Taggert hate Sonny and Jason. 

3 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

Speaking of GH, did Taggert ever get a real sendoff? It would be so awesome if Real Andrews were to come back and that old rivalry with Sonny was revived. RA and MB had such terrific enemy chemistry - while in real life MB was best man in RA's wedding!! The way Taggert always called Jason "Anger Boy" made me laugh.

Yes he did ish.  I had to look it up because I couldn't remember.  Scotty painted him as a dirty cop in his run as DA because Taggert had some issues with his shady dealings and forced him to take a job as a cop in Portland, much like GH shipped Claire Walsh off to Alaska when they were done with her.

1 minute ago, Vee said:

IIRC Taggert got transferred out of town, possibly due to clashing with corrupt Scott. I can't recall the details. I still want him back.

Good memory!  That was pretty much exactly what happened.

4 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

Another good scene around that time was Robin telling Sonny everything about Brenda's breakdown and chiding him for the role he played in it. 

I actually thought Robin should have gave Sonny more hell and been more angry, but I didn't hate the scene. Somehow Robin can walk the line of being good friends to both of them (her cheerleading S&B in 2010 was a little extra though) I really, really loved Jason and Robin back then too.  I hate myself for saying this but it's my favorite Robin pairing.  I liked them more then Stone/Robin and Scrubs.  I was always way sad they went with JaSam when she came back even though it makes perfect sense that Robin had moved passed him.

Weirdly, I was super into Jax and Brenda back then even though S&B are my OTP.  1998 Jax and Brenda was so sweet and awesome and if GH ended tomorrow I wouldn't hate Jax and Brenda as the endgame couple.

9 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

The Tin Man and the Two Macs were two of the most ridiculous storylines GH had in the late 90s. But you are right about the messy Carly/Tony breakup, the birth of Michael, Carly running out of town due to post-partum depression (Sarah Brown got several weeks off to shoot an indie film), and Bobbie finally learning about Carly being her daughter...those scenes were all electric. I actually liked Brenda's depression storyline (because I was in a dark place in my own life at the time and could relate) - and how after months she spots the man who broke her heart while she was among several women onstage singing and dancing "Big Spender" at the Nurses Ball!!!

OMG I loved Big Spender at the Nurses Ball.  I loved Karen and Lucy being so supportive of Brenda and I loved the scenes where Sonny and Brenda talk at the penthouse for the first time after she finds out he's back.  They are probably my favorite Sonny/Brenda scenes of all time.  Soo good.

I disliked Brenda's depression because I hated she fell completely apart over Sonny.  I get it but I also think VM wasn't the best at those scenes although I did like some of the quieter ones like when she kissed Jason and spoke to Lily at her grave.  I also thought it was some of Ingo's best work.

The Carly stuff including Jason really carried the end of 1997 and they did really well with the teen scene too.  Gh really peaked in 1993-1996 but by 1998 they were declining.  The show was still decent until about 2005 ( I loved most of 2002). 

On a related note to the thread, I feel like in the 2000's everyone leaving was killed off.  They all got send offs lol. 

Lol I would have told you one of her stories was the Justus/Taggert triangle but clearly that was all off screen and I made it up in my head.  I liked Dara. 

Thinking about it 1997 was a bizarre year for GH.  The Pierce Dorman murder story seemed to go through a weird shift.  I can't imagine the original plan was to involve Brenda/Sonny/Jax in a murder story that really involved a character they barely interacted with.  Then Harry, the Tin Man, and Riveria were all working with him and now Sonny has to go on the run and leave Brenda.  Dorman was suing Monica for sexual harassment and running a huge drug operation and somehow Jax is a suspect for being a drug lord?  What a strange story. The Stefan/Bobbie/Luke/Laura/Katherine/Alexis  story seemed to go through several changes as well.  Stefan/Bobbie were dropped and the secret Cassadine sister thing seemed like a rewrite when Miranda didn't work out. The only story I remember working was Carly/Tony/AJ.  I remember being super excited when Guza returned even though I literally hate the Brenda breakdown story I think the rest of 1998 was pretty good except for the silly 2 Macs storyline.

3 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

Nope! In early 1998, she and AJ had a romantic evening dancing - and he declared that he wanted her back. Keesha was never seen, mentioned or heard from again!!

Thanks I thought I missed it.  I remember and AJ possibly getting back together and then she was gone.  There are a lot of B list GH characters that just disappeared in the 90's : Detective Garcia, recast Gina Cates, Sly Eckert, Dara Jensen, Simone Hardy, Hannah Scott, etc.  I guess if they weren't that popular and not used a lot they just faded away.

3 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

She wasn't on long enough to hook up with Sonny. Had she stayed, it eventually would have happened. 

I actually remember thinking she had better chemistry with Sonny than she did Jax .  For a minute I thought they were gonna hook her up with Mac.  As a kid, I thought the Miranda stuff was endless but she didn't even last a year.  Speaking of 90's B list GH characters, did Keesha ever get an exit?

50 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

I believe she was a victim of a writing regime change.

That makes sense.  I forgot Guza was gone for awhile in 1996-97.  No big loss.  I just was pretty young back then and thought it was super weird Miranda went from being on all the time and an actual threat to Jax and Brenda to just leaving one day.  I am surprised they never brought her back as a recast ever.  Obviously Leslie Horan wasn't very good, but the idea of Miranda was pretty decent.  And she really only loved Jax and never hooked up with Sonny, so there's that.

Will and Sonny are super boring.  The show tells me they love each other, but they have about as much passion for one another as Hope and Rafe do.  They act like two middle aged men and have for years.  Paul and Will were way better. 

I sincerely think Days has the worst hair and wardrobe dept on tv today.  I hate the way they dress and style Marlena and Kate especially.  Nicole and Sarah consistently have ridiculous hair.  And that weird Princess Leia hair do Ciara had a few months ago was so bad.  Marci Miller's Abby always was styled like an old lady.  Kayla and Jen look frumpy all the time. Only Gabi and Chloe consistently look good.

I don't notice the men so much but they put Will in weird Mr. Rogers cardigans all the time.  John has a hipper wardrobe than Will.

13 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

 

+1!!!!

 

Sets are important to me too, for the history aspect. And I think you can just have more intimate scenes in a home setting than a closed down Pub (like ... come on, lol) ... I think it's unrealistic Roman is so supportive. Like, I don't expect them to all hate each other all these decades later but still ... lol. I'd believe it if Kim were running the pub like she should be doing. At least Josh Taylor works better playing Chris again now (let's be real ... lol ...). Behind a bar and giving out advice. It works for him.

 

DAYS does spend a lot of time on things no one cares about, but frankly all the soaps waste our time anymore with nonsense. They should be caring about putting on the best show possible in their final breaths but instead ... they've wasted our times for like a decade or two now and it's sad  

Like I said, I don't care about JT's Roman, but I shouldn't feel bad for him because he is letting J/M use the pub for the 1000 time and I do.  He already took the L with Marlena he shouldn't have his face rubbed in their happiness.  I wish the show would at least pretend he is Roman and isn't 100% on board because we have known him for 35 years and know there is a lot of history.  Otherwise he is just Chris playing Roman, which is fine, but c'mon Days.  You have tried to tell me he was Roman for 20 years.  It reminds me of the scenes 10 years ago where Stefano was just casually eating lunch at the pub.  THAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN EVER.

Days wastes so much time on nonsense.  And they are so far ahead they can't accurately gauge audience reaction.  No one likes Rafe/Hope-just stop it show.

11 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

 

Oh I know. I just felt like being snarky about Higley and her disdain for Marlena so I'll take their random villains of the month and having Roman close the pub for them. I do agree with all of the points on how ridiculous it is they always celebrate at the pub (Hope doesn't seem to have a house either, but yet Rafe gets a kitchen).

 

I SO miss Marlena's penthouse. I LOVED that set (and didn't Julie live in it when she returned in 1990? It was a different color scheme of course). I was pissed they got rid of it and gave them that shitty hotel style "townhouse" (that looked nothing like any townhouse I've seen ...). I also liked seeing Roman and Marlena's old house as Abe and Lexie's. Poor Abe doesn't have a home anymore either (I didn't care for the idea of Sheila and Abe together romantically but I did LOL sometimes at their interactions ... wouldn't it have been better development to have them in his home, as he shared his memories, and she started to develop feelings for him? Instead of random scenes in the pub or HTS). Characters just randomly wander the streets ... it's awful, lol, when you sit there and think about it ... they need to do better here. At least other soaps try and give a little variety ... DAYS is so barebones in terms of sets ... They hardly even show Jennifer at the Horton house, she's always in Town Square ... what about giving her and Adrienne an office set at the Spectator? (But then again, it'd just be the blue one recycled like they do for everyone's office ... so nevermind).

 

What if Jack and Jennifer were sparring at the Spectator again instead of town square? And while I appreciate the nod to history, seeing Jack and Jennifer in a closet during the fire/wedding/kidnapping ... lol. Come on ...

I don't know how DH could hate Marlena.  She's basically your lead heroine whether you like it or not.  I just laugh at the overall ridiculousness of Marlena and John at the pub on the reg.  The affair is like one of the few stories they still consistently mention after 25 years, Roman should be like make out somewhere else you guys, but he won't.

To me sets are so much more than sets.  Marlena's penthouse had so much history.  I wish they kept it.  Even Marlena's office.  It's super glaring when characters literally don't have homes.  It takes you out of scenes because people are just randomly hanging out at 5 places.  I feel like Hope, John, Marlena, Abe etc deserve permanent sets more so than Eric's fancy apartment and Rafe's kitchen.  I would sacrifice the D mansion any day for Marlena's penthouse or Bo and Hope's old home.

I can't even discuss Jack and Jen because the story has been a complete non starter.  And I liked Abe and Shelia to be honest, but it was another thing that got about 5 min a month and went nowhere.  I feel like Days spends so much time on stories the audience doesn't really care about.  I would rather watch an entire show of John/Marlena canoodling at the pub than hear about Sarah/Eric/Rex.

Miranda from GH?  She was such a critical part of the S/B/J triangle and she just casually faded away.  Never to be spoken of again.  I can't even remember why she left or how.  I just remember how clear it was she was unpopular and they dropped all the plans they had for the actress.  She was going to be the missing Cassadine sister I think and at least a rebound for Jax and she just quietly left one day forever