carolineg

14 minutes ago, Taoboi said:

I know unpopular opinion, but I liked Angel. But I felt they built her up nicely from what I remember. But yes...Brenda Replacement. And that was so weird how she was the one to kill him.

 

And then I felt her and TB Carly had great hate chemistry.

 

But...I don't remember...what was her history with Jax.

I think I inherently disliked the actress because she was on 90210 and Brandon cheated on Kelly with her.  Not that I cared much about Brandon/Kelly, but she was an annoying character.  

I believe she and Jax had a previous relationship before she was introduced.  They had an affair but I am unclear if it was before he came to PC or when he briefly left.  But I remember he hires her to look for Brenda because apparently even at that time people thought Brenda was still alive?   Idek.  I think Angel just randomly left town or was escaping the police and Sonny helped her randomly leave town.

I liked Hannah more than Angel.  And I hated both, but I thought at least Hannah had some possibilities with Taggert or AJ.  Her ridiculous likeness to Vanessa at the time probably did her in more than her acting or character.

ETA:  Totally forgot the whole reason Jax left was because he saw Brenda alive when Vanessa made that awesome 10 second cameo in 2000 so he totally had reason to believe she was still alive and kicking it with Alcazar although the boyfriend's name was something else at the time.

11 minutes ago, Dion said:

The names (and actors change) but the basic characterization stays the same!

 

It was Sorel who had the annoying daughter. I think she was the one who ended up killing him.

 

 

Yes, I find that summaries will often make a storyline seem more coherent and exciting. I think it's because the day to day factor is removed; you don't have to watch something uninteresting play out over months, it's just neatly packaged into a concise summary lol.

As someone who loved Jason and Sonny in the 90's and still have some affection to both of them this day, I have always found the intricacies of the mob extremely dull.   The only mob villains I can clearly remember are the Zacharras, Alcazar, Faith, Rivera, and Frank Smith.  That's a lot, but it only covers 25% off the threats over the years.  It's basically the same story played over and over.  

Also, Angel was the daughter's name or also known as Brenda replacement #2 with a built in past with Jax to make it more "interesting"

7 minutes ago, Dion said:

I wasn't watching at the time but from reading SOC recaps it seems Jason got spooked by a car bombing that almost killed Robin (shades of Sonny and Lily). So he made a deal with Moreno to let Moreno take over his organization, provided that Moreno left Jason's men in place as insurance so that if anything happened to Jason, Jason's men would be still embedded and able to avenge him.

 

However, as @full hearts says, Jason was still targeted by Moreno's mob, though indirectly through Jason;s family and friends. Johnny, Jason's former bodyguard, had left the business and was trying to run a new restaurant but Moreno tried to force him into his protection racket in direct violation of his agreement with Jason; Moreno had Johnny beaten up when he resisted.

 

Now this next part is slightly off-track, but I think it's an important subplot to the story. At this time, Felicia was renting a room on Cortlandt Street, the bad part of town, in order to do research for a book she was writing. Alan, who was an addict and had been kicked out by Monica, was renting a room across the hall. Moreno found out about Felicia and planned to have Felicia drugged in order to obtain compromising photos with which to blackmail Mac, but this plan failed and it was Felicia and Alan's friend Tammy who was drugged. Alan's drug-dealer was killed and planted in the bed with Tammy; Alan found them and tried to get rid of the corpse, only to be discovered by Taggert. Alan was arrested for murder. Felicia eventually figured out what had really happened and that she was the intended victim of a blackmail scheme and detailed all of this to Jason. Alan was cleared and underwent a rapid detox.

 

Just before Christmas 1998, Jason went to visit Sonny (who was drunk and grieving over Brenda) in Puerto Rico. While there, Jason got word that Moreno had targeted The Outback on the night of a performance by the band Chicago (nothing specifically to do with Chicago of course, just an interesting tidbit), that resulted in Mac being shot. Jason failed to persuade Sonny to go back to Port Charles, so sent Mike to look after him over the New Years period and eventually Sonny was persuaded to return. He and Jason (although Jason was preoccupied half the time with custody battles over Michael) then spent 1999 building up a new organization to rival Moreno's.

 

Moreno was eventually assassinated by his henchman Sorel on the same night that they had ambushed Jason (and the same night Sonny and Carly had "hate sex"). This led to nearly two years of Sonny vs Sorel. After Sorel was murdered, Sonny pretty much took over the territory, though one of Sorel's men, Rosco attempted to make a name for himself and became a rival of Sonny's. Rosco was eventually killed and his widow Faith took up his mantle, while Sonny also faced new threats from first Luis Alcazar and of course later his brother, Lorenzo.

 

**I think I got a bit too carried away detailing the history of the mob in Port Charles

No, thanks for that.  It's very detailed.  Sorel and Moreno are names I know, but I think they are the same person lol except one had the annoying daughter that wore only white then only black.  All I really remember from that time was drunk Sonny on the island with a hooker he treated poorly (and Mike's presence), Jason's Carly/Michael obsession (some things never change), Robin moaning about losing Jason before they broke up, Sonny being ridiculous with Jax (implying it was his fault that Brenda died), and Hannah showing up with practically a neon sign over her head saying "Brenda replacement #1". Oh I remember Juan showing up too assuming Sonny was his father because apparently he was an idiot and didn't realize his birthday was no where near the time Lily and Sonny were married, but whatever.  In my head, I really just assumed Jason was still in charge then just gave it back to Sonny.

You make it seem more coherent and exciting than I am sure it was because I don't really remember anything about the mob stuff until Alcazar shows up and I thought his mob stuff was just a front because he was jealous of Sonny/Jax due to the fact he was in love with everyone's favorite special flower Brenda.  

I tried watching a little bit on you tube and I was like OMG boring until Carson's hate sex.  I can't believe once upon a time I was into Carson.  I forgot the tidbit that Sonny slept with Carly to prove what a slut she was to Jason.  WTF, that's the strangest logic I have ever heard as an excuse to get laid.  Oh Sonny lol lol

34 minutes ago, full hearts said:

I think he can read a map now. lol I don't think Jason minded being the boss but he left the mob and the reason for Sonny's return was to take back the territory from Moreno. Jason at the time was out of the mob and was still being targeted. Hence, Sonny's return and taking over. Jason concluded that whether he was in the business or not he was going to be a target unless he moved to another country. The show referenced that not to long ago when Sonny/Jason talked about the breakup with Sam.

 

I actually liked that he wore suits, or dressed up a bit. If I recall he dressed up because he wanted to look the part, he was still wearing business attire when Sonny came back that next year. It wasn't until his visits and final return in 2002, that he adopted his wardrobe now. 

I vaguely remember Jason and his bike shop and him leaving the mob.  I did not remember the reason for Sonny's return.  I thought it was because the threats were gone and Brenda was 'dead'.  I definitely tuned out after Brenda's mom drove her off a cliff.  I remember popping in to watch Sonny return, but for some reason I just remember him drunk and crying on an island over Brenda and I remember being super annoyed MB left for a year then returned 2 months after VM left.  Then I was further annoyed with all the Robin stuff that led to KMc's exit 

So who was in charge of the mob between Jason and Sonny's return lol?  I assume it doesn't matter, but now I am kind of curious to find MB's return on you tube.

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2021 at 8:37 PM, full hearts said:

Yes, he was. Benny & the other mobsters were so happy when Jason confirmed he was taking over for Sonny.  

 

 

 

Thanks!  I remember everyone saying how great Jason was as the boss and how he eliminated threats and violence and so on...and he immediately let Sonny have it back when Sonny reappeared.  No questions asked.  It was a weird period with Jason becoming Sonny-like and wearing suits all the time though.

So my assumption is Jason will be fine this time.  I guess he just prefers being the enforcer?  Idk, I lost track of Jason's motivations years ago.  Does Jason still have brain damage issues?  Like not being able to read maps which was a thing on the show in 1997 lol.  Can Jason read a map now?

7 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

I laugh at Jason now being the head of Sonny’s empire. In real life, the enforcer never takes over because he’s too stupid to lead the organization lol

It would never happen in real life but I think Jason is good at it.  Wasn't he supposed to be a great leader when MB left for a year in the 90's?  Like allegedly better than Sonny at it?

9 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

I guess it helped that Rena and Vanessa are only a few months apart in real-life, but Kimberly Mccullough and her baby face in the 90's looked way too young to be hanging out with the crowd she was in, lol. 

Well, KMc was quite a bit younger than both of them.   And she did end up dating Jason who would be Brenda's age as well.  But VM looked more mature than both SBu and KMc at the time, so it was easier to slip her into adult stories.  To be fair, Robin did act very mature for her age.  Honestly, more mature than both Brenda and Sonny.

9 hours ago, Franko said:

I could be wrong, but I think Robin was two grades below (and roughly three years younger than) Brenda, Jason*, Karen and Jagger. If I read Curlyqgrl's summaries right, the older kids all graduated in 1993, followed by Robin in 1995, then she took a year off/stayed with and mourned Stone/romanced Jason before leaving for Yale in 1996. Also, Robin turned 13 in October 1990, while Brenda turned 21 in March 1995.

*In reality, Robin would be older than him.

 

My next question is if they ever had A.J. going to college, whether actual or retconned.

 

You are correct.  Robin was a sophomore when the others were seniors.  The show did age Brenda a year so she turned 21 on her actual 20th birthday, so that makes them 3 years apart, but they were actually only 2.  Not sure if Jason et al were also aged or Brenda just became a year older.  They have kept the canon that Brenda and Jason went to HS and the prom together, so I would assume they are both now 3 years older.

5 hours ago, Vee said:

I think Lesli did a good job embodying Lois. I remember they (unwisely) reshot flashback scenes from Rena's run with her and Ned, and she pulled it off for the most part. But Lois as a character needed a very good reason to be back full time, and there wasn't one. They tried to clumsily slot her into the post-2000 mob-obsessed version of the show by pairing her with Lorenzo in C-story (as in, the only stuff not mob at that time) to keep him away from Tamara Braun and it didn't suit the character at all. So LK couldn't win for losing.

 

I don't think the role needs Rena to work, but I do think Lois (like Marty on OLTL) was a singular moment in time as a contract player unless you come up with something excellent or have very solid day to day writing. The corps GH had in place at that time was still fairly solid but the stories largely sucked, especially in 2003-2005. So neither Lois (nor Marty IMO, and Marty is one of my all time favorite characters) had a truly compelling reason to be back as a full time contract player.

 

 

Agreed. It didn't help LK didn't have much chemistry with WK either.   I think she was okay with TK, but one of the defining characteristics of Lois is that she didn't fall for that kind of charm and hated the mob crap, so why Lorenzo of all people? They should have tried her with Ingo.  At least they had a history to play off of.  It would have been a crappy thing to do to Brenda, but I don't think they even mentioned her friendship with Brenda in 2004, so I'll allow it.

I agree that Lois is very much a moment in time character and we haven't seen her on screen change or grow, so to have her come back with all her idiosyncrasies would be odd because she would be pushing 50 now, but again, to have her lose that would make her Olivia lol.  I think the canvas has changed so much it would be hard to find a place for her to fit, but I think it would be great if she popped in to see Brooklyn from time to time.  I do think it would be hard to top Rena though.

15 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Lois was Brenda's only female friendship I ever bought. I always thought Brenda was too damn old to be hanging out with Robin in the 90's. 

I think Brenda was only a couple years older than Robin.  They did go to high school together.  But agreed.  Robin looked like a teen while Brenda looked 25 even if she was only 18 on the show.  I loved Robin and Brenda together but it was a little strange Brenda lived with a 30 year old man and had a full on adult relationship and Robin was still in high school lol. And I swear Brenda broke up with Sonny, married Jax, and Lily blew up and Robin was STILL in high school lol.  I know that's not true but it felt like Robin was in high school forever.  But then again, Sonny was way too old to be Stone's BFF and it worked okay.  Lois and Brenda always seemed like more equals for sure, but Robin and Brenda work(ed) well now.  I still found them believable the last time VM returned. 

3 hours ago, Dion said:

Lesli Kay played the Lois recast in 2004. I think Lois is one of those unique characters who can really only be portrayed by the original (in this case, Rena Sofer) and it certainly didn't help matters that Lois spent half her time in 2004 haranguing Brook Lyn and the other half pursuing Lorenzo Alcazar.

 

I agree with those that say Lesli was decent.  Her story was a mess.  Lorenzo really?  That would not ever be Lois's type. I tend to agree that Lois maybe someone who only works under the original portrayer.  I loved Lois, but the character veers on obnoxious and can become a caricature very easily.  I also think there is something very 90's about Lois that doesn't hold up today.  I am not sure a 50 year old would have the same charm with the OTT accent and the crazy nails and wacky wardrobe and if you change those aspects of Lois you basically get Olivia lol.

10 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Julies's return to Days in 1990.

It was great to have Susan Seaforth Hayes back but to have Julie now a single lady with no respect paid to Doug/Julie tarnished that a bit. 

Didn't she have a weird relationship with that young doctor, Chip?  I liked Victor/Julie's vibe at the time.

16 minutes ago, Taoboi said:

While it would have been nice to see Noah again, was the actor over at Y&R at that point as Damon or on that sci-fi show with Kevin Sorbo? In any case, I still think he had bad blood there at the time as well. 

 

Yeah, I vaguely remember a good-bye with Kathy. But I feel like they did not close out her character correctly at all otherwise. Julia was the feisty girl who got raped and redeemed on AMC if I remember correctly. And it was not until she got with Noah and they became a supercouple (with the Cinderella wedding) that she was popular though so perhaps. I would have to rewatch it now with older eyes, but I just felt as a fan that they never used her enough. And totally disliked that when she died was when her story was getting interesting.

 

Wow. I never knew. But to be fair I was excited about VM. 

 

 

I don't know if everyone correlates the two returns that way, but I think it was a few weeks or a month after Eva starting airing between Vanessa's announced return and the soap press completely moved on and so did the ABC promos.  And the return was better so everyone forgot about Maria collectively, but probably not the AMC only viewers.  I feel like if Eva returned a year earlier or a year later it may have gone over better because I just remember a lot of soaps mags pitting the returns as Best vs. Worst in year end reviews and stuff.

Maria's return was still bad, but they were literally dedicating SOAPNET marathons to Brenda's greatness (totally fair) and nothing to Maria after August 2002.  I mean I have a SOW from 2003 that has a 6 page layout dedicated to Brenda's wardrobe (again totally fair in 2003-she got her jeans at Abercrombie in a 00 lol) and an article panning Maria's return in the same issue.  I was really excited about ELR's return but I was like Vanessa's returning?  Bye AMC, GH is calling my name lol.  The writing for Maria was crap, but I feel in this case more buzz would have helped a mediocre story along.

8 hours ago, StevieM said:

I am starting to wonder if they plan on having Alexis leave town and meet up with an amnesiac Sonny.  Maybe she would be interested in a relationship with him if he was free from the mob, kind of like the way that Liz wanted to be with Drew/"Jason" when he had no memory.  

Ewww...gross.  I barely tolerated Sexis the first time.  And I would like to believe even drunk Alexis would be more discerning than this.

8 hours ago, prefab1 said:

I guess this will never happen because apparently the actors dislike each other in real life, but I always thought Alexis and Jax made a really good pairing, even though they never consummated their marriage of convenience. 

Jax and Alexis were great.  I loved them.  The best non-pairing ever.  Listen, the actors are hired to act.  They don't have to like one another.  I hate a lot of my co-workers and have to spend more time with them than IR and NLG would have to spend with each other lol.  I think it would give both characters new life honestly.  And the age difference doesn't seem as glaring as it did 20 years ago.  Ingo's not exactly the young hunk anymore.

26 minutes ago, Franko said:

I'm now imagining a go for broke story arc where Roman and John team up on a couple of missions over a period of a couple of years and in the process exorcise all the demons that have come from having their lives taken from them, as well as resolve their differences. But where would that leave Stefano in the aftermath? Or Marlena?

I assume the writing was always on the wall for John/Marlena as endgame.  I would kill to see a real conversation between Roman and John about how each felt about the identity switch more in depth.  A conversation that wasn't entirely focused on Marlena, whom the writers seem to focus on only and the kids sometimes.  Roman has to have intense feeling about basically coming in 2nd best in a competition for his own identity and John clearly has resentment about losing his entire life before 1985 for a revenge plot.  Then losing it again 5 years later.  I think Stefano would die and come back and die and come back as always.

In the interest of the thread,  I remember liking Jax's return in 2000/2001?  I liked his whole non-Sonny stuff with the Cassadines and bringing Kristina Sr. into the mix.  It wasn't splashy but it was at least something different for Jax that was intriguing for a minute.

17 minutes ago, Taoboi said:

I said that a few pages back. Same.

 

And I've sure Eva got a 'she returns' promo just like Sydney Penny got. So to see how they were misused was just so surprising to me. 

Just saw that.  Julia did get a goodbye scene with Kathy and Dixie I believe.   Was Noah so tied to Julia's popularity that she couldn't make it on her own or get a decent story.  I love SP, but maybe?

Eva did get a lot of promotion, but it was a couple of months before Vanessa returned to GH and I think her return got a lot of unfavorable comparisons in the press.  And any buzz EL/Maria had was lost to a bigger return on ABC.  I am not saying it was wrong, but I think it was slightly unfair and skewed my views in Maria's return as well.  It would have been better for Maria to leave for some reason to protect her children and Edmund instead of creating an unpopular alter ego.

These both probably fall under disappointing more than awkward but Maria and Julia Santos on AMC.  For Maria, the show made her Maureen for far too long and Eva La Rue didn't have the same chemistry with the cast and was stuck with Aiden for so long.  Even Edmund and Maria fell flat and she basically just left town after 3 years of boringness.

Julia was even worse.  Raising Kathy, dating Jamie, flirting with Jack.  It was all weird.  Only to kill her off.  They could have at least have had her take that nurse job she was supposed to instead of killing her.

Most of it was writing, but it was awkward for me that two characters that were so popular in the 90's didn't really have a place on AMC in the 2000's and the magic was gone.

8 hours ago, Khan said:

I wouldn't say "destroyed" so much as "devalued."  Even if John and Marlena had to be endgame, Roman still could've been a valuable character.  But, it was as if JER (or someone) felt DAYS' canvas couldn't support both Roman AND John in heavy, front-burner roles.

9 hours ago, titan1978 said:

The whole thing led to Josh Taylor’s Roman, so in effect, the character was destroyed.

But Josh Taylor was more casting than writing.  

True about Roman being devalued.  I think different aspects of the triangle could have played out for years.  Since Marlena was mostly alone or kidnapped for years it still could have played out with Kristen and Roman.  Idk, how you could have done the Possession with Roman though.  Off on an unreachable assignment for awhile?

I do see the point of keeping both of them front burner difficult.  They do fill very similar roles.  They could have spun Roman off into a different direction with a new love interest and dealt with his kids problems, but Roman/John both couldn't always be the hero nor could they both be Stefano's greatest enemy.  And with Roman around, how could Sami blame John/Marlena for every problem she ever had?

13 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

I had seen Tracy’s run in the early 1990’s, the fountain fight with Monica, her sadness when Edward was dead, her positioning of Ned.  I loved her scheming with Marco Dane, and running Jenny down.  So I knew what was coming when she arrived and they did not disappoint with that mini story with Jax.

 

I also loved Marlena’s return.  It was epic as it should have been, full of emotion and dramatic.  The scene on the pier is incredible.  And it was exciting when they revealed Wayne.  But that story really did suffer and Roman was pretty much destroyed.

 

Eileen’s first return as Ashley on Y&R was pretty awesome.  If I remember correctly, didn’t John follow shortly after her, or did he come back just before?  Either way, she almost single-handedly reinvigorated that family from years of just Jack.  The writers really brought back the Abbotts in a huge way.

I wouldn't say Roman was destroyed.  He was the heavy in the triangle, but he was also 100% the wronged party.  The problem with the affair is J/M got to describe their feelings a lot.  And Roman was clearly a man living in the past, thinking everything could go back to the way it was 7 years ago, while having to live with everyone in town, his entire family, his wife and kids readily accepting another man as him for that entire time.  He wasn't missed.  There was a lot to play on that and he only voiced it a few times.  But again, John lost his entire life because of a crazy mans schemes and Marlena lost 5 years and was in limbo because she still loved fake Roman and no one let her deal with it.  There truly wasn't a bad guy in this scenario.  Let's be real, even at Roman's 1983 height of popularity, he was still kind of a jerk and sexist.  So he didn't exactly change.  It just wasn't cute in the 1990's the way it was in the 80's.

12 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

I still remember the first time we saw Marlena again -- not on the pier with John, but alone in that bedroom, encased in silhouette as she awoke from her comatose state, with a storm raging outside.  It was positively electric.

 

Nope.  Not by a longshot.  Ghost Reva was fine, as it put some closure on her and Josh's relationship and allowed him to move onto Annie.  However, when TPTB decided to make KZ's return "stick," they came up with Amish Reva, which undid the previous story, and was just awful to watch, with Amy Ecklund/Abigail's introduction being a lone bright spot.

All those gauzy sheets around Marlena's bed.  With the camera going in and out of focus until you see Marlena clearly-awesome.  Also iconic, is Doc wandering around in the awful pink tracksuit for what seemed like months lol.  And she got her own wardrobe credit for awhile!  I could get my own pink tracksuit at some swanky boutique in Laguna Nigel!!

Joking aside, Wayne's reveal was pretty awesome too.  The anvils were all there starting with RoJohn forgetting a story about a stakeout with Abe (returning James Reynolds) in Miami, but when you were teased with a man in a jail cell watching videos of Marlena/RoJohn on repeat for days and they finally pan to Wayne it's fantastic.  

Everything was pretty great until the whole crew went to Chicken Itza or whatever that place was called in Mexico and the story managed to move fast and drag at the same time.  I remember being so sad about the outcome with Isabella and Roman just getting their original partners back (I found both characters extremely irritating at the time).   Obviously, the whole thing righted itself a year or so later, but at the time I was super bummed by the ending.

As far as Reva goes, I wasn't talking about her initial return as much as her impact after her return.  Besides Marlena, I couldn't really think of a character that returned after several years who became the leading lady of her show again for an extended period of time.

2 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Was he fired?

I thought his  contract was up and neither side were interested in continuing - Wayne because the writing made Roman the 2nd choice in the triangle and Days because they had written John as Marlena's best bet along with the fact that Wayne was probably going to cost them mucho dollars if they renewed his contract.

It may have been mutual.  I just remember a quote in SOD that made it seem like the show's choice by saying something like the character of Roman needed to be "rested".   I could totally understand Wayne wanting to leave, but I always thought the "mutual" thing was to save face and JER already had the Possession planned.  Also, I thought it was suspect that Roman stopped needing to be rested about the time Wayne was committed to Port Charles. 

1 minute ago, BetterForgotten said:

They drove a ton of story in their return stints, but as characters, would anyone ever say characters like Marlena and Reva were ever on par with who they were in their initial stints? 

For Marlena, yes.   Of course she wasn't the same woman she was in the 70's/80's-soaps had changed too much.  I think Marlena was the face of Days in the 90's and fit perfectly well into that campy vibe.  It's not perfect and I do think her acting suffered, but I think she adapted very well to the change in style of Days and maintained her popularity throughout.  Do I think the Marlena of 1986 was a drastically different character from Marlena of 1996?  Not really.  Maybe a little dumbed down and involved in some silly plots, but is Stockholm of 1986 that much more intelligent than the underground world of Paris 1996? Lol.  SLIGHTLY more based in reality but not much.

Reva was just more of an 80's character in general.  OTT, vixenish, slutty.  I am not sure Reva as a character ever

would have fit in the 90's and beyond.  GL is a different animal than Days and some of the stories they gave Reva just didn't fit GL at all.  I think she as a character felt much more off than Marlena on Days, but Reva still drove some good stories.

21 minutes ago, Franko said:

This was right around the time I stopped regularly watching GH ('cause I had to do homework after school), but I was super excited about a new Quartermaine, and one who was so feisty. Re-reading the 1996 summaries, I'm impressed how well that story was crafted (especially since it was apparently short and intended to promote Jane joining THE CITY).

 

Ah, you beat me to it. This one's a true mixed bag. There was plenty that didn't go so well, like how Roman ended up overshadowed by John, the heavy in the triangle, etc. But still, that omg factor can't be ignored. (I cannot imagine the excitement DAYS fans must have felt during that summer.) And while I know Dee (and Drake) left and came back again, I'll make the slightly OTT claim that her '91 return is one of (if not absolutely) the most successful because the person in question stayed, led storylines, etc.

 

Tracy was completely new to me as well as I was quite young and only started watching in 1992 for the teen storyline lol.  But she just worked from her first scene.  The perfect jabs, the exasperation of her family, the evil schemes, her take downs of Lois-everything was good.  Her working with Jax finally gave him a layer of gray that he really needed after being the perfect white knight too.

I would have to agree Deidre's return is probably the most successful.  Maybe Kim Zimmer at GL?  Unfortunately, it basically destroyed Roman as we knew him, but Marlena (and John) became more popular from it.  And it definitely had some of the most OMG moments ever.  Unlike Hope/Gina, this was firing on all cylinders at the beginning.  The Tale of 2 Romans ended up being an overall crappy story as did most of 1992 except for Isabella's death, but once Marlena got thrown in a pit the chain of stories lasted well over a decade and effected so much of the canvas.  We STILL hear about John/Marlena's affair to this day.  I always thought Days made such a mistake firing Wayne when the drama could have gone on for years.

27 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

It made no sense not to tie that kid to Jax. It’s a dead end.  But I guess when you have a pretty good idea Vanessa isn’t staying, then why do the kid at all?

 

I am sure she did ask for more money.  At that moment in time she was worth it, and they should have worked it out.  From what I recall, the sticking point was the schedule, not the money.  Like many times in the past, the fact that she wanted time more than money was a surprise to ABC.  I don’t know if it was Frons or JFP or both.  But I do know JFP isn’t real fond of maternity issues with women, or women that push back in general.

 

When Steve Burton and Bradford Anderson have a guest I am interested in I listen to their podcast.  He just mentioned in a recent one that he was a real dick to JFP when she first got there as he was leaving, and yet he was welcomed back and given all the airtime in the world.  If anything, there was a period of time the show felt like it was transitioning to Jason’s POV and Sonny was finally being held accountable for his decisions.  Things like this really piss me off, because I know how awful she was to several women who were less or equally

demanding and she just ignores or punishes them, and many of them were rightfully important talents on their shows.

It was obvious Guza's dream was to have his new favorite toy (Dante) be tied to his old favorite toy (Brenda) and there was no stopping it.  I wonder if Jax was ever considered or if Ingo was just always on his way out.  The most dramatic thing to do was to make it Jax's child because it directly effected Carly, Jax, and Sonny while Dante/Brenda would effect Lulu and Sonny for all of 5 minutes before they realized no one did anything wrong except keep a lame secret for too long.

I am sure JFP or Frons or whoever did not want to give into Vanessa's demands and assumed she would just re-sign.  Perhaps they did offer her all the money just not the time off.  Without trying to sound sexist or blaming her at all because I love her, I do wonder about the timing of her return.  Maybe it was an offer she couldn't refuse, but I wonder had she waited a year when her son was 1 or 2 would it have all worked out better?  I am sure GH would have waited for her.   Oh well, VM wouldn't have booked Vegas and I am sure she makes money still off that as they are doing an all episode marathon on the E! channel right now as we speak lol.

After reading MB's autobiography (don't judge me it was quarantine), him and Steve come off as bullies.  I don't think they are bad people, but some of their admitted remarks and 'jokes' to female co-stars are awful.  They made TB cry and Mb was like it was fine we apologized.....

You know, when SBu left the first time, I missed him for a minute, but I wouldn't have ever begged to have him back from the show's perspective.  The show had moved on fine from him after he left and he truly wasn't necessary.  Sonny and Carly had their thing going on, Robin was gone, the Q's had stuff to do without him.   

Brenda's 2002 return.  The first half of the return had some of Guza's best stuff.  I think the Amazing Grace montage when Sonny/Brenda see each other for the first time is probably the greatest single moment on GH in the last 20 years by far. The 2nd half on the return went off the rails a bit.  The Jason/Brenda marriage was good but the Jax/Brenda stuff and the Alcazar stuff wasn't great.  And the weird lack of S&B stuff was an annoying way to prop Carson because MB/VM were still smoking together in 2002.

Tracy Q's return in 1996.  Not as splashy as the others I am mentioning, but it was so nice to see her back and she fit seamlessly.  Her thinking Justus was the butler, bratty baby Dylan, her trying to take over ELQ with Jax, and her creating angst for Ned/Lois.  Perfect, just a perfect return.

Deidre Hall/Wayne Northrup's return as Roman/Marlena 1991.  Again the Tale of 2 Romans also went completely off the rails and making RoJohn John is probably still a huge mistake in retrospect, but that Pier Reunion with RoJohn/Marlena and when we first see WN's Roman was fantastic and the whole story started great and eventually lead to Isabella's death and the J/M affair which changed so much about Days.  

Stefano's return 1993 on Days.  He hadn't been seen in several years, he was tied to Peter/Kristen, and he was scary still.  A great way to build up the Dimera family again. Watching a 9 month pregnant Marlena get hysterical with fear when she first saw him was such a far cry from the wacky villain he would become a few short years later.

Kristen's Days return was great as well.  Through the first Brady/Kristen wedding, I would say it was absolutely fantastic.

7 hours ago, titan1978 said:

I just remember watching Burton try so hard to play against feelings for Sarah’s Carly.  So much so that I actually laughed when he was so broken up after being shot and finding them together.  Why would he care?  Maybe about Sonny.  Their modern relationship was cemented when Tamara was playing her, but back then it was wild to see him playing against writing that was setting them up to be a couple.  I think I even remember him saying in an interview back then that Jason would never be in love with Carly.  Well Bob Guza clearly had other ideas lol.

 

He also noticeably came back to life when Liz rescued him and they started hanging out after Lucky “died”.

 

I think Vanessa was against where the story was going with Dante in her last return as I recall.  She also has been vocal about that kid being a mistake.  The only demands I remember from her was she wanted the same kind of schedule that Riche gave to Genie Francis when her kids were born- her scenes came first in the day and not to go over her guarantee so she could be with her young son as much as possible.  JFP does not respond to demands from women very well and that’s why her first return was not extended.

I have no idea why SBu was against Carson so much.  I know it is rumored he and Sarah Brown didn't get along and I remember he was very attached to KMc/Robin and that pairing, but by the time TB came around I am not sure the issue.  Robin was gone and Carly was a new actress (who I guess MB and SBu were mean to as breezily stated in MB's autobiography).  I still thought TB and SBu had okay chemistry.  I can understand being against a pairing but the Jarly relationship was so important it really shouldn't have been dropped in a romantic sense, because in a way that's the whole backbone of the CaSason relationship and why he does everything she asks ever.

Vanessa for sure vetoed Dante and the baby and the baby in general.  I get her point 100%, but it definitely made the story even worse than it was to have the baby have no impact on anyone really.  At least make it Jax's kid.  As a Brenda fan I am happy she vetoed it, but as a fan of soap operas, making it Dante's was the way to go, especially since neither really did anything wrong since Dante/Brenda had no idea the other existed.

I believe Vanessa asked for more money on top of a lighter schedule in 2003 and was denied.  To be fair, VM/Brenda was on all but 2 shows in her 6 month stint and her child was not even a year old.   I am also assuming she had some interest from primetime because her GH stint ended up so high profile.  I wonder if her demands were too crazy or JFP just said no way to be a jerk because in the press at the time everyone thought she would extend her contract and then seemed shocked when she didn't.  Guza even had the story written lol.  Well, I guess it worked out well for KeMo.

2 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

What I don’t understand is why the hell anyone thought Steve fuckin’ Burton was such a huge draw that they catered to his demands. 
 

I didn’t like it, but I could at least understand somewhat the way they catered to Tony Geary, but Steve Burton or Maurice Benard? Based on what exactly? 

What's funny is Labine created these monsters.  I know she didn't create either but she gave Sonny/MB an actual likeable character and Jason/SB his accident.  Both actors/characters weren't much before her.  They could have easily gotten rid of SB (not Jason, but recast) and MB before that.  Neither were terribly popular.  By the 2000's the show was catering to the whims and needs of these actors (TG, SB, MB) and listening to their thoughts on stories to the detriment of the show nearly 100% of the time.  I can't think of a female actress that got the same treatment.  Maybe Vanessa?

I am not sure why an actor has that power.  TG, MB, SB have all left at different times and the show survived.  I think Sonny's absence in the current show would leave a much larger hole than Jason's.  I think the show may be in better shape now if they cut their losses with both of them 15 years ago.  But who knows?  It's not like any soap is in good shape these days.

1 hour ago, titan1978 said:

It did.  However, up to Faison as Duke shooting him, I would have taken Jason any day over Sonny.  Now I’m just indifferent to him for the most part.

 

The only time Sonny is even memorable to me after he left Brenda at the altar and quit the show the first time are always tied to the women he is paired with.  Brenda, OG Kate, SJB Carly (I prefer TB with Alcazar and Jason).

I think the idea of Jason's accident was really good.  I really liked nuJason for a few years, but I thought the point of it all was that he'd get his memories back eventually.  Not just become a new person basically.   I can't believe the show never really went there and now it's clearly too late.

I personally would take Sonny over Jason I think.  Well, me in the 90's would 100%.  But fair point.  He really hasn't done much since 1998 but re-populate the town.  If there ever was a perfect ending to a character it was Sonny leaving Brenda at the altar.  Realizing the life he choose was costing him his great love, but, alas, here we are.