DramatistDreamer

16 hours ago, All My Shadows said:

- Going back to old-fashioned things that I already know most people will say the new show should avoid. I want this baby shot on video tape, please and thank you. Three cameras, please and thank you, and all three cameras better know how to get all up in some faces for the tight close-ups. If we're gonna do a soap, then let's do a soap.

As The World Turns was my favorite daytime soap and I have posted about the shooting techniques such as continuous shots with almost no cuts that were used in groups scenes that I loved so much. I just wonder whether anyone really knows how to do this anymore, especially with a multi camera setup. I would love to see those beautiful fluid shots but I won’t get my hopes up for that because it seems like it went away in soaps about a decade before ATWT got cancelled.

16 hours ago, All My Shadows said:

I really wish I had more time to go crazy and speculate a million things about this new soap, but once summer is here, I expect to be obsessed.

Some random thoughts I've had...

- I love the fact that it's rumored to be replacing THE TALK. Get that outta here! Nothing would be sweeter than to see this new soap avenge the death of one of the old guard. Even if the random talk show survives this, I like the conversation centering.

Listen, ATWT was my favorite soap so I have been relishing the possibility of The Talk getting bumped by a soap that is in part being produced by P&G.

44 minutes ago, Khan said:

At the same time, I think a mistake that many modern-era soaps have made is throwing too many characters at their audience before they have had the chance to learn about them.  Even if TG ends up being an hour-long soap, I hope they learn from the mistakes made by PASSIONS, SaBa, SuBe and others and really use that hour in the beginning to concentrate on a select number of characters before broadening the canvas to include others.

That’s the most manageable way to do it at the outset. It will be interesting to see how much the traditional approach to storytelling for the soap opera will be incorporated in this new series and how much innovation will be incorporated, perhaps leaving behind some methods that have shown to be less effective. 
I have long wondered why daytime soaps never at least tried to use the repertory system where you have some characters in active storyline for a period, rest them, rotate others in and you can even overlap and have parallel stories but don’t keep running the same characters ragged until everyone, including viewers get exhausted. I remember during the mid-late 1980s when ATWT was running hot and the stories were firing on all cylinders, they seemed to have problems retaining actors. One reason was obviously because these actors were getting other opportunities because they were on such a highly regarded series but others cited the fact that they needed a break from being so heavily involved in so many back to back stories and couldn’t get that break, so some eventually left. And it’s not as if everyone was being utilized similarly, a few actors were underutilized at the same time. From what I heard in interviews with some of the actors, it seemed as if execs wanted to focus on certain couples (a strategy that seemed smart in the short term but eventually marginalized any character that wasn’t part of a coupling) apparently, to take advantage of the super couple phenomenon of the 1980s and 90s. 
‘I hope this new series can avoid these pitfalls.

1 hour ago, DeliaIrisFan said:

 

Not only that, but RH's title worked (until it didn't, when ABC kept trying to sideline the titular family, but that's another story) because it was a half-hour show.  Every good story that show ever told tied back to the Ryans in some way.  I don't see how an hourlong, daily soap could feature one family nonstop, and I fear the rest of the characters' stories would feel like filler if the show were named after one family.

Anyway, I love being able to quibble over the title of a new, promising soap opera.

Interesting point about the fact that RH was a 30 minute serial.
In this day and age, I don’t see a network soap being able to center one family, unless they are going to make that world really cloistered, to the point of being nearly claustrophobic. A radio soap, sure- a script to screen with a beginning, middle and end, yes, but a continuing drama, somehow I don’t see viewers putting up with that. Today’s viewers definitely expect more.

I do give Leon credit because, as I said upthread, she did look the part even though, honestly, Y&R botched what were good storyline opportunities that were right in front of them, if only they had opened their eyes. Seriously, the writing for her was pretty awful. To call that reliquary story convoluted is an understatement.

4 hours ago, Liberty City said:

I honestly would love a mixture of veteran east coast soap actors, as well as newcomers. A mix of both worlds. S

Oh of course, you absolutely need both! 

Fresh faces and experienced veterans and if this is to be a 60 minute serial as has been suggested, there should be sufficient room for both. That first episode, you need strong talent to do the heavy lifting.

4 hours ago, Liberty City said:

I really want CBS Studios, NAACP and P&G Studios to focus on east coast talent. 

I agree with this. No offense to the West but I have seen how B’way works up close and personal, as I once interned for a B’way producer and that discipline involved— actors, even the relatively young and newbies always show up prepared.

Nvm. Please delete?

Everybody’s gonna try to get in on this. I’m interested in who is going to be doing casting duties.

In the old days of P&G soaps, it was common to see certain actors circulate their soaps (EON, ATWT, AW, GL, etc). Back then, it was not uncommon to even see an actor appear in a commercial for one of their products before later appearing in one of their daytime soaps. It’s been nearly 15 years since P&G has produced a daytime soap so I think we can assume that things will be slightly different this time around, and P&G appears to be assuming the role of partner, rather than primary production company as they were in the past. 
Still, the list of actors who once performed in P&G soaps is pretty impressive- Tonya Pinkins, a pre-Y&R Victoria Rowell, Amelia Marshall, Petronia Paley, Count Stovall and Tamara Tunie, to name a few. 

Considering that elections are going on in Russia and we’re unlikely to be informed of anything other than the most predictable outcome, coming across this vintage Phil Donahue episode that took place in Moscow (an episode I have never seen) seems especially timely.

5 minutes ago, Vee said:

I was never a fan of Adrienne Leon on either Y&R or GH. I agree they should've just negotiated Fonseca's time.

With Leon, I was never sure whether the crappy writing or her performance was the biggest problem I had with the character but I found her characterization of Colleen to lack that endearing quality. And in Fonseca’s performance , even when Colleen was being rebellious and made me want to ground her, she was irrepressibly endearing, kind of like Traci. Sursok, well, about her, I was just indifferent.  Today’s soaps waste their legacy characters like nobody’s business.

3 hours ago, Liberty City said:

Casting Adrianne León was a mistake; they should have cast Melissa Claire Egan as Colleen instead. Had they done that, I do feel like Colleen would still be a presence. But between León's short run, and Tammin Sursok's tenure, it just... ran the character out, and Arena wanted the role GONE (wrongfully). Traci deserves to have her daughter on the canvas, and it's a crying shame she does not. At this point, Traci rolls into town to be the "sound voice" of the Abbotts, and that is it.

I wasn’t against Adrianne Leon’s casting per se, only because she had Traci’s build and there were some potential but missed opportunities to have a body positive character, that would be the inverse of where Traci was at that age. But the writing was awful during Leon’s tenure in the role, only exceeded by the atrocious writing in Tammin Sursok’s time (plus she was completely wrong for the role). Even if in a reduced role, I wished they would have worked something out with Lyndsy Fonseca to show up occasionally especially seeing as Fonseca’s performance abilities got considerably sharper over the years and she and Luckinbill have great onscreen chemistry, the were really good together on that television series based on La Femme Nikita.

3 hours ago, Liberty City said:

Well, from what I recall, it was a choice between Brad Carlton or Paul Williams, and Maria Arena [wrongly] chose Brad Carlton to OFF, and what a mistake it was. If anything, they could have easily paused the character for six-to-nine months, and then returned Brad refreshed and ready to go, because now Don Diamont is trapped at Bold in a shïtty role that is corner-written, whereas Brad was multi-dimensional with a lot of deeply-rooted history.

Wow, really?! I didn’t know that! That was some poor choice making, a particular standout in a sea of poor decision making over decades of this show’s history.

2 hours ago, Liberty City said:

Know where she would have fit? The Carlton family with Colleen AND Brad!

Why oh why did those dumb writers kill off the Carltons? If they felt it was too confusing to have Don Diamont occasionally visit Genoa City, could they not have recast the role? Brad Carlton was one of the few characters left on the canvas who had solid working class roots (aside from Jill and Sharon, both of whom have been terribly underutilized and misused) and I feel that connection to striving and ambition has been lost. Y&R, in its heyday was always ambitious and had at least a handful of characters who embodied this.

It’s also sad that, you have Ashley and Jack who have grandchildren that they allegedly dote on and you have Traci, who has demonstrated the greatest capacity of unconditional love, has been left without a daughter or grandchildren. Colleen could have made occasional visits to Genoa city sometimes. Honestly, instead of going there with the hair brained stories they plunged JT Hellstrom into with the Newmans, they should have had he and Colleen run off and elope (with Colleen only sending Traci a cryptic message to show up to a particular destination alone where she finds her way to a rustic chapel somewhere), and return for brief story arcs during the numerous storytelling lulls on this show.

^^ Dang, so many things that have plagued IW over the years!

On an up note, honey for everyone, I guess?

9 hours ago, j swift said:

@DramatistDreamer & @DRW50Don Lemon's show was supposed to premiere on Monday, 3/18, so it was cancelled before it began.

Now, he's going to host it on his own website with the full Elon interview.

But, the biggest irony is that he was on CNN as an “exclusive” last night, after they fired him last April.  I don't know who I expect to have more self-respect, Don or CNN.  But, don't go back to the folks that scorned you last time, to tell about being scorned by someone else today!  It's like crying on the shoulder of the last guy who dumped you, when your new boyfriend cheats on you.

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity. 
 

Hm, from my brief experience working behind the scenes of a television show…I mean, not to make generalizations or cast aspersions or anything but, in my experience, a lot of media people are fairly spineless and often focused on hunting down their next opportunity, wherever they can find it, no matter where it comes from or where it leads them. No lie, I was once told by a television producer that I had too much integrity to be working for her. By then, the job had made me so sick that I agreed with her.

3 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

Perhaps the family will be called Gates as well. 

The last daytime soap opera that used the family’s name that I can think of is Ryan’s Hope, which at least, wasn’t too straightforward thankfully. As soap fans, I think we’re generally used to titles that are a little more elaborate on some level. I think that’s why it comes off as a working title for so many.

If the writing and performances are top-notch, I can overlook a generic series title.

3 hours ago, dragonflies said:

I thought it was cause wasn't something mentioned about a "Gated community" lol 

The family has been described as living in a gated community. The title comes across as very ‘on the nose’ is probably why it reads like a working title but hey, if the quality is great (and ups the ante for the remaining soaps to improve their storytelling), tptb can call it Bebay’s Bay Ridge Hideaway and I would deal with it.

Kind of what I had suspected of P&G over their recent IR reports— they wanted to get back into the production of soaps but didn’t want the onus to be on them to produce them. I guess partnering with entities that have some stability is a better option for the type of corporation that P&G has evolved to over the years.
Interesting, when we all think back to all that talk about P&G refusing CBS’s offer to purchase the production rights to As The World Turns. 

53 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

And how ominous that the lights went out in today's episode of The Talk. 

They also started with a weird commercial two screen split while the small screen had the talk with visual only.

I would be interested in see what that looks like visually. Of course, not interested enough to watch the actual show.

On 3/13/2024 at 11:14 AM, Khan said:

Frankly, I'm not convinced that "The Gates" isn't just a working title.

Same, as it seems like a fairly generic title. In one of my earliest posts, I wrote it as “The Gates” but then got lazy and subsequently left the tile out of quotation marks but I was thinking it was a working tile.

Anyone who is still on Twitter/X, question: How long did Don Lemon’s show last on that platform?

8 hours ago, Antoyne said:

I’m really sad they didn’t truly give Daniel and Lily a chance at this stage in their life.

They haven’t known how to write story for Lily and Daniel since they aged out of their teens. Maybe these writers find Daniel too uncomfortably close to Lily’s age? They seem to prefer writing Lily in relationships with much older men.

The Simpson trial, no doubt drew away viewers’ attention from daytime soaps but it’s sad to me that, no one mentions any strategies that were developed and implemented to draw back those lapsed viewers or to actively cultivate new ones, that didn’t involve simply bringing in new characters , copying off-brand Hollywood scripts and cheap gimmicks. Everyone cites O.J., leading me to ask “and then what? What did you do in response to draw those viewers back?” The shows I used to watch back then brought in a whole bunch of dull characters and/or showed storylines that could have been the antidote to insomnia. On occasion of a compelling storyline, there was usually no follow up.

2 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

Seeing Barbara Ryan and Kirk McColl in yesterday episode made me miss ATWT even more.

Aww, even though I am no longer watching…still, aww.

10 hours ago, Khan said:

And I think I like "THAT LYIN' HEFFA GOT CAUGHT!" better.

That’s a headline from The Root or The Grio.

On 3/10/2024 at 6:22 PM, Taoboi said:

Ooooo taste!!! Pun unintended. Can't wait for Season 3 in June.

 

So...among fans there are 3 fave episodes from that season? Which one is yours?

I will have to give that question more thought since I have watched other things since then and it’s no longer as fresh in my mind lol. I know that many people will say that the Thanksgiving (or was it Christmas?) episode was among their favorite episodes but imo, personally, I thought it ran a bit too long, although I just know that Jamie Lee Curtis probably relished diving into such a messy flawed character.

I will say that I enjoyed the character arcs of each character and I really think the series is well cast, it was such a nice surprise to see Robert Townsend turn up. Another aspect that the writers do well is, they get you to care about these characters fairly quickly, even the ones who appear to be antagonistic at the outset. Many of the characters clash and can sometimes say awful things to each other, but they are never demonized because the writing shows where each character is coming from emotionally. It’s a lesson that I wish today’s remaining soap writers would learn and adopt because most tend to write overly broad characters-even the so-called “grey” characters are so broadly written as to appear more like caricatures. Here’s how you can write a character, even an antagonist, while maintaining viability. I appreciate how show builds situations that pull the characters into either conflict or rising to the occasion, and in a few instances, both.

One really memorable episode for me was when Marcus went to Norway to apprentice to a pastry chef. I thought the episode did well at showing how Marcus was bringing that sense of discipline and focus to build his craftsmanship and up his level of skill. With all of the happiness of his accomplishment, lurking in the background was the precarious state of his mother’s health, which added tension to the episode.

10 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Much of the hype for Sheffer at the time was about lifting him above ATWT, all about the changes he wanted to make to ATWT and wasn't allowed to do. Sheffer, Guza, JFP, Ron Carlivati, all hyped for themselves, not for what they did for the genre. We were never meant to care about ATWT itself when he was there - it was just the template for his work. Marland certainly put his own issues into ATWT, but he also respected the traditions of the show. When you run a show for almost 8 years, you will inevitably change the show irrevocably, but he still tried to keep the core intact. To be fair, by the time Sheffer got there, most of the core was gone, but it's still extremely difficult to watch a show where someone who seemingly has such contempt for their show, or their genre, is treated as such a god. .

From my on again, off again experience of viewing during his tenure and reading the press surrounding this screenwriter who deigned to condescend to write a daytime soap opera (back then, there still was a LOT of snobbery about what media someone wrote for, as I would learn after getting into a dramatic writing. MFA program when my school’s career services head asked me whether I had submitted a play or a screenplay or television script for my admissions portfolio and when I answered that I had submitted a stage play, he said “oh, that’s a much higher bar!” As someone who specifically applied to that program to gain for experience in writing across all media, I was shocked to hear him say this, needless to say.) It was telling that during his acceptance speech at the Daytime Emmys, Sheffer mixed up All My Children and As The World Turns, as AMC was the soap he had often desired to write for—he really should have prepared a speech, it all came tumbling from his lips during and post acceptance. Bless.

10 hours ago, DRW50 said:

The darkness under Marland was in some ways harder to watch because you did care about the people involved. You felt the pain. '00s ATWT was just a corpse being kicked, as you were encouraged to watch and laugh.

So ATWT had become daytime’s version of Weekend At Bernie’s? I know I’m wrong for thinking this, but that image popped into my head immediately when I read this.