DramatistDreamer

I’m watching a miniseries called Nolly starring Helena Bonham Carter as Noele “Nolly” Gordon, an actress who became a legendary soap star and a British television staple who, in the latter stages of her career was unceremoniously fired from the soap she starred in, Crossroads.

Not to mention, L.A. is very much known as a union town, while Atlanta is…er, not so much.  A series like this is probably going to want full access to unionized labor that, preferably has some experience with working in daytime?

4 hours ago, Errol said:

I know you all are speculating Atlanta, but don't rule out Los Angeles.

The announcement was made when it was for a reason. That's as much as I can say right now.

Haha, for that reason, I never personally mentioned Atlanta, although I can understand why others would jump to that conclusion.

Also, we saw with the TOLN soaps that shooting a daytime soap outside of the usual milleu where there is infrastructure already in place can cause extra challenges that may negate the potential cost savings.

The GOP is chaos personified. How many House Republicans are leaving now? I’ve lost count.

1 hour ago, BetterForgotten said:

Agreed - the soaps were pretty bare bones from the 50’s through the  late 70’s - it was really the writing that kept people tuned in - despite what the likes of John Conboy and Gloria Monty would have you believe.

True. I can even remember watching some early-mid  80s soaps that had some flimsy sets (walls that shook when an actor slammed a door) but you didn’t care because everything else you were seeing was so compelling.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

I don't care if the entire show is taped inside Michele Val Jean's she-shed.  I just want the writing to be GOOD.

Ha! Yes though, truly good writing is the #1 priority. Without this, nothing else works, no matter how high the production values climb.

^^ My point is that this type of shooting scenes was never one that ATWT adopted, so I am not why it’s being associated with being a P&G thing.

12 minutes ago, Melroser said:

Style wise, I hope this new show brings back longer scenes instead of these 10-15 second whiplash shifts between 20 characters a day. Longer scenes, if written well, can bring much more impact and help people to invest in what's going on. 

I also don't want to see the Peapack model of shooting since P&G is involved. I hope they don't have any ideas on using this to keep the budget "cheap". It'll look it. 

As far as I recall, ATWT didn’t truly adopt that Peapack style of filming. From what I recall, that was specific to Ellen Wheeler’s production model.

We’ve bandied about quite a few names for wishful casting. Ultimately it will be the decision for tptb to make but I want to put another name out there, so if anyone who has an “in” with the development of this soap peeps this, in addition to the names I had mentioned like the likes of Tonya Pinkins, Tamara Tunie, Amelia Marshall, Victoria Rowell, Count Stovall and Petronia Paley, I want to suggest that they do not sleep on the talented and beautiful Loren Lott who was criminally underutilized on Y&R. Because of how little storyline she received, she’s still a relatively fresh face but one with valuable soap experience. 
Another name I would suggest is Lamman Rucker whose charisma and magnetism was used an abused during his time on ATWT.

Another thing that I wondered/mused about is what industry/field will the wealthy family(families) make their wealth on. I feel like at least one family should be a haircare magnate, right? There are some opportunities for some gifted hairstylists to really get creative here. Black hair is not just about creative expression, it can also be an art.

Jason Canela (Arturo Rosales, Y&R) seems to be keeping booked an busy since his days on the soap opera. He’s in the cast of the Apple TV+ series Palm Royale.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/other/palm-royale-cast-on-laughing-and-playing-wordle-with-co-star-carol-burnett-to-work-with-her-is-beyond-a-dream-come-true/ar-BB1keFFr
 

On 3/18/2024 at 10:46 AM, Faulkner said:

 

For me, that’s the million-dollar question: what does a new daytime soap look like in 2024? I wonder how large the cast can be. The 2-3 family structure is classic soap, but things can get incestuous really quickly without a strong range of unrelated individuals for romantic purposes on a daily, one-hour soap, if that’s indeed the format.

Should exorbitant wealth be the focus? I’d be happy with a family that’s merely very comfortable instead of trying to be like the Newmans. There’s too much suspension of disbelief to depict Victor, et al., as billionaires with Y&R’s budgets. Succession could dramatize the Roys’ extravagance with their HBO budgets. Daytime cannot, and it’s often embarrassing to see them try. (Although there’s something appealing about seeing a Black family on that level—people may be looking for that, as daytime has never really gone there.)

I know actors realize how much job security matters nowadays, especially with the opportunities shrinking as streamers enter an austerity period (just now seeing this article here). Some stars might be willing to budge on big payouts, but can they afford a cast with several big names?

Giving this post a bump because I think you posed some interesting question here.

On a previous page, I asked about whether we might be privy to the story bible once it’s been completed because this will give us a clearer idea of how these issues will play out, at least initially, knowing that there needs to be room for flexibility in storytelling. I know that it’s common for scripts for award nominated screenplays to be available for download (whether through above-board platforms or underground vendors, in the very early ‘00s when I was in grad school.) With the current technology, it would be quite easy to read and would be great if we all don’t have to wait 20 years to read it. I realize some people might now want to take a look behind the curtain but for me, it would be instructive to see how the process itself plays out. 
For me personally, it’s not interesting enough to have a bunch of rich people cloistered behind a gated community. Maybe for 6 weeks but then I would need something more than that.

17 minutes ago, Khan said:

As John Amos puts it, "You wouldn't catch ME running around with a chicken on my head, screaming 'DYN-O-MITE!!'."

And because he refused, he had a career! Coming To America alone solidified his place in movie and pop culture history.

11 hours ago, brockreynolds said:

I'd love to see the new soap have BOTH wealthy and poor families, the interplay between that is always so compelling, however... they may not have a poor black family, because of the criticism it would attract. Jimmy Walker said that Good Times got so much flack for the portrayals on their show, that he is 100% certain we will never see a poor black family on television ever again. I think that would be sad, because as Downton Abbey proved, it's a great combination. 

I think a show needs that balance. The problem with Good Times was not because of having a low-income Black family on screen. The problem was that the one Black writer on the show left over disagreements with upper management about the content and the direction of the characters and storylines. I think with good writing, you can have a balanced depiction of a low-income but striving Black family and Michele Val Jean being an accomplished Black woman writer makes the difference.  Frankly with the story of a wealthy Black family and a low-income white family, the criticisms of an unrealistic or unbalanced portrayal is just as likely because we know that statistically, this is more of an anomaly, an exception to the rule. Let’s not dive headlong into a “Talented Tenth” type of scenario, that is a potential minefield too.

Somehow this bit of news missed me. During my teens, I used to pour over their catalogs but somehow by the time they made it to my area mall, I rarely purchased their products. The journey of the company is a solemn one, even before this closing news. Seems like the brand ventured far away from its roots.

^^ Ask Shuzo Matsuoka whether a cramp can be serious enough to warrant attention.

Is it me, or did there appear to be little urgency in getting to a player who’s just collapsed on court? Hope he’s alright.

Sabalenka is experiencing the ‘best of times and the worst of times’ this season. It does seem Dickensian.

51 minutes ago, Taoboi said:

Given how people get...hmmm picky...about using that particular word, I chose not to.  

Is it like rain on your wedding day?

29 minutes ago, Vee said:

Thanks for both of these.

You’re welcome. Sadly, some of the video quality of these YouTube uploads seem to have gotten worse over the years. 

Question: Once the story bible has been written, how long do you all estimate before it’s available to read? In this digital age, I hope it will available to read online.

It ends at about the 20 minute mark.

16 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

It can get a bit dizzying if your focus is on the background characters but the camera work during this sequence is stellar, the way it moves the sequence along in a fluid manner.

 

 

Watch the entire sequence, it’s long but has a great payoff in visual quality.

SORRY  everybody, back to the regularly scheduled thread.

It can get a bit dizzying if your focus is on the background characters but the camera work during this sequence is stellar, the way it moves the sequence along in a fluid manner.

20 hours ago, Vee said:

I'm not super familiar with this technique despite immersing myself in Marland ATWT over the 2020s. I'd like to know more if you have a post you can point to sometime, thanks.

Watch the entire sequence, it’s long but has a great payoff in visual quality.

20 hours ago, Vee said:

I'm not super familiar with this technique despite immersing myself in Marland ATWT over the 2020s. I'd like to know more if you have a post you can point to sometime, thanks.

There’s a sequence in this episode that happens in the Mona Lisa restaurant that is one example of the dexterity of camera work that I mentioned. Starting around the 22nd minute.

Thank God that’s over! The only reason why I watched the final two episodes was I felt obliged to finish the series. The writing and overall direction of this series began in an interesting way but increasingly became a slog as it wound its way to the end. 
Also, I read that one of the grandchildren of Babe Paley is crying foul on this series. It is a work of fiction but when the writing starts playing with the sequence of events in addition to relationships, it’s a sure bet that someone will be crying foul.

I wonder how this series would have played out had it been 5 episodes instead of 8? It might have been much tighter constructed in terms of the storytelling and perhaps had spared us some of the excess dreamscape filler.

11 hours ago, Vee said:

I'm not super familiar with this technique despite immersing myself in Marland ATWT over the 2020s. I'd like to know more if you have a post you can point to sometime, thanks.

I will have to see if I can find the clips that illustrate this. It may take awhile since I no longer (re)watch like I used to.

1 hour ago, vanguard said:

And now for their names:

Wealthy black family:

Patriarch: Gregory Montgomery

Matriarch: Valyncia Montgomery

Adult son: William Montgomery aka Gregory Montgomery, Jr.

Oldest adult daughter: Olivia Montgomery

Youngest adult daughter: Tracy Montgomery

Adult nephew: Curtis Montgomery

 

Middle class black family:

Patriarch: Charles McMillan

Matriarch: Gracelyn McMillan

Adopted daughter (niece): Sharon McMillan

Adopted son (nephew): Trayvon McMillan

Matriarch's sister (biological mother of Sharon and Trayvon): Yvonne Harris

Patriarch's male cousin: Damian Ross

 

Semi-wealthy white family:

Patriarch: Jackson "Jack" Hampton

Matriarch: Jillian Hampton

Adult son: Bryce Hampton

Adult daughter: Caitlyn Hampton

 

A couple of "lone" characters (more to come later when I think of some).

Sylvia Rivera: Highly paid housekeeper for the Montgomerys.

Reynaldo Rivera: Sylvia's very gorgeous hunk of a son who owns a highly renowned strip joint in ATL. Gorgeous, but also very shady.

 

The name of the Montgomery made me giggle because ATWT had a Montgomery family. It made me muse about the aspect (down the road) of a brief story arc where the Black Montgomerys find out about the white Montgomerys (only if Scott Bryce and Hillary Bailey Smith could make the appearance though). That could be some P&G synergy between the present/future of soaps linking with the past. 

1 hour ago, Soapsuds said:

I wonder if Tamara Tunie would return to do daytime again? I'd love to see her on the new soap paired with her good friend and former co-star Scott Bryce. I think they'd be golden on the new soap.

I could see also lawyer Jessica appearing from Oakdale to lure in ATWT viewers. Just like Y&R did with Colleen Zenk. Even though Colleen isn't playing Barbara.

Geez, just saw this post after I made mine.

I respect and love the fact that Rowell embedded in Jamaica and utilized a lot of Jamaican talent, including cast and a Jamaican crew when she was filming The Rich And the Ruthless. She really endeared herself to the Jamaican people and the Jamaican art scene.

16 hours ago, All My Shadows said:

- Going back to old-fashioned things that I already know most people will say the new show should avoid. I want this baby shot on video tape, please and thank you. Three cameras, please and thank you, and all three cameras better know how to get all up in some faces for the tight close-ups. If we're gonna do a soap, then let's do a soap.

As The World Turns was my favorite daytime soap and I have posted about the shooting techniques such as continuous shots with almost no cuts that were used in groups scenes that I loved so much. I just wonder whether anyone really knows how to do this anymore, especially with a multi camera setup. I would love to see those beautiful fluid shots but I won’t get my hopes up for that because it seems like it went away in soaps about a decade before ATWT got cancelled.

16 hours ago, All My Shadows said:

I really wish I had more time to go crazy and speculate a million things about this new soap, but once summer is here, I expect to be obsessed.

Some random thoughts I've had...

- I love the fact that it's rumored to be replacing THE TALK. Get that outta here! Nothing would be sweeter than to see this new soap avenge the death of one of the old guard. Even if the random talk show survives this, I like the conversation centering.

Listen, ATWT was my favorite soap so I have been relishing the possibility of The Talk getting bumped by a soap that is in part being produced by P&G.

44 minutes ago, Khan said:

At the same time, I think a mistake that many modern-era soaps have made is throwing too many characters at their audience before they have had the chance to learn about them.  Even if TG ends up being an hour-long soap, I hope they learn from the mistakes made by PASSIONS, SaBa, SuBe and others and really use that hour in the beginning to concentrate on a select number of characters before broadening the canvas to include others.

That’s the most manageable way to do it at the outset. It will be interesting to see how much the traditional approach to storytelling for the soap opera will be incorporated in this new series and how much innovation will be incorporated, perhaps leaving behind some methods that have shown to be less effective. 
I have long wondered why daytime soaps never at least tried to use the repertory system where you have some characters in active storyline for a period, rest them, rotate others in and you can even overlap and have parallel stories but don’t keep running the same characters ragged until everyone, including viewers get exhausted. I remember during the mid-late 1980s when ATWT was running hot and the stories were firing on all cylinders, they seemed to have problems retaining actors. One reason was obviously because these actors were getting other opportunities because they were on such a highly regarded series but others cited the fact that they needed a break from being so heavily involved in so many back to back stories and couldn’t get that break, so some eventually left. And it’s not as if everyone was being utilized similarly, a few actors were underutilized at the same time. From what I heard in interviews with some of the actors, it seemed as if execs wanted to focus on certain couples (a strategy that seemed smart in the short term but eventually marginalized any character that wasn’t part of a coupling) apparently, to take advantage of the super couple phenomenon of the 1980s and 90s. 
‘I hope this new series can avoid these pitfalls.

1 hour ago, DeliaIrisFan said:

 

Not only that, but RH's title worked (until it didn't, when ABC kept trying to sideline the titular family, but that's another story) because it was a half-hour show.  Every good story that show ever told tied back to the Ryans in some way.  I don't see how an hourlong, daily soap could feature one family nonstop, and I fear the rest of the characters' stories would feel like filler if the show were named after one family.

Anyway, I love being able to quibble over the title of a new, promising soap opera.

Interesting point about the fact that RH was a 30 minute serial.
In this day and age, I don’t see a network soap being able to center one family, unless they are going to make that world really cloistered, to the point of being nearly claustrophobic. A radio soap, sure- a script to screen with a beginning, middle and end, yes, but a continuing drama, somehow I don’t see viewers putting up with that. Today’s viewers definitely expect more.