DramatistDreamer

1 hour ago, Khan said:

Actually, @DramatistDreamer, I think there were at least three: Frank Dandridge, Judi Ann Mason and, of course, Michele Val Jean.

On Generations?? Yikes! 
Well, at least the NAACP is playing a part in this upcoming series because…bruh!

Wait @Khan, were they always there? Like from the beginning? Or did they slot in towards the end?

1 hour ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

i had always assumed it was a straight-up money issue between martha and goutman. but on one of the early locher room reunions she said something — don’t remember exactly what — that may me go ‘hmm.’

didn’t say anything at the time,

 

Oh, you should have been here in this thread at the time, we were all talking about this back then!

1 hour ago, j swift said:

@BetterForgotten & @DramatistDreamer, I would encourage you both to read the Generations bible that is summarized by @dc11786 in the Generations thread.

For me, it cleared up a lot of the lore.  My reaction after reading it was that although a multi-racial drama was not part of the original pitch, as noted by the writer in later interviews, that was clearly the intent once the bible was written.  However, the mixture of a writing staff that appeared to have no people of color to provide insight, and network interference about the portrayal of Black family issues, derailed much of the original concept.

Hopefully that won't be an issue with The Gates due to NAACP and P&G being a part of the development process.

Currently, I am reading a script and 1619, so perhaps when I have finished those, I will set aside some time to read.

 I think it’s obvious that there were no Black writers writing for Generations. And like you, I sincerely doubt that this will be an issue with the forthcoming serial.

While reading his NYT obituary, it said that Louis Gossett Jr. had co-written a song with Richie Havens called Handsome Johnny.

5 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

It wasn’t even the original intention for Generations to have a black core family to begin with. 

And it shows, believe me. For all intents and purposes, the Marshall family was a family who just happened to be Black. It seemed that this was the approach taken, no specificity whatsoever, which was a big error in judgment, imo.

10 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Sally Sussman Morina was also way over her head with little creative talent to steer her own show, but that’s another story. 

It aired on NBC- perhaps someone should have called Debbie Allen to go and fix the show, lent some cultural traditions to the Marshalls.

Something that we’ve all been discussing in this thread.

Looks like Grigor was getting a pep talk.

1 hour ago, Faulkner said:

Grigor won Cincinnati in 2017, beating Kyrgios in the final:

 

Ah, thank you. Like @Soapsuds, I knew it was a Masters. In my case I mixed up the tournament venue.

In any case, I hope he can keep it going.

R.I.P. to Emmy, Oscar and Golden Globe winning actor Louis Gossett Jr.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/louis-gossett-jr-1st-black-man-to-win-supporting-actor-oscar-dies-at-87/ar-BB1kKuqZ?OCID=ansmsnnews11

I’m always rooting for the ‘Lost Boys’ to win something big. Grigor has won IW previously, right? It would be tough but if he could get Miami maybe a title might spur him on to capture an even bigger title this year. Keep the faith, Grigor.

Once again, I am here for the comments and y’all are cracking me up.

1 hour ago, te. said:

Yeah, I don't see the winning a lottery thing happening for various reasons. I'm sure there'll be an "outsider" character/family either way that'll provide an insight into this world and the tension of trying to fit in. 

But as I said, if they choose something specific for their company then it needs to be something that can be worked into storylines. That's kind of the issue with the Generations family owning a popular brand of ice cream; sure it's without a doubt profitable industry but impossible to work into a storyline.

 

(Though I'm having a sudden craving for ice cream right now)

To be honest, specificity is key in writing characters and stories that resonate. In the earliest days of the daytime soaps, characters were drawn very clearly: reverend, lawyer, doctor, secretary, housewife, nurse, teacher. It resonated because people could identify with either being one or knowing someone who fit into this profile. When soaps became more flashy and the prototypes became even higher on the socio-economic spectrum: Scion of a wealthy oil family, owner and operator of a publishing house, head creative director of a famous family run design house, owner of a family owned and operated boutique.
There’s a reason why the Abbott family were introduced as Genoa City’s first family of cosmetics— it is a specific thing. Many viewers were either consumers of cosmetics or knew someone who was, so that was an entry point into the family’s story. Even in the case of the “management consulting firm”, as ATWT had in mogul Lucinda Walsh, the products and companies that they did business with were specific—real estate and construction, clothing manufacturing and in house design. My concern is that, if it’s not specific enough, then you get something like the current iteration of Newman Enterprises where no one can keep track of what they currently do as an “enterprise” and it just becomes ridiculous and inauthentic.

The ice cream business on Generations could have worked, tbh, if there had been more writing that delved more into the history of African Americans and ice cream and the connection to the Marshall (wow, I can’t believe I remember their surname ). There actually is a very rich history with the creation of the dessert and even the invention of the ice cream scoop to Black people. Had the show had the Marshall patriarch talk about this, maybe with his unfocused playboy son, it would have strengthened the aspect of why this family went into the ice cream business. I hate to say this but, perhaps this is the function of not having a Black HW. Sometimes it’s not all about aesthetics.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

It'd be like watching "Good Times: The Next Generations."

Maybe if this were 1984, but in 2024, I would not be interested in watching that. 

Of course, I would expect that it wouldn’t solely be rich people on this soap but so far, the only core family that we’ve heard about is said to be affluent and powerful and I don’t see why they should have to acquire their means by way of sheer luck. 

The thought crossed my mind that the NAACP would end up calling for a boycott of a show they used to be a part of. Whew. 

I know we’re all spitballing ideas and putting in our 2 cents but I think it’s important to keep in mind the actual premise of the series based on what was pitched. The pitch presents the premise that this family is already powerful, affluent and living in a gated community. That’s undoubtedly what both the NAACP and likely even P&G signed onto and are expecting. 
The idea of making a Black family the only family on daytime television whom would acquire their wealth, not through their own ingenuity or hard work but through the luck of the lottery— that’s very far from the original pitch. The NAACP, as well as P&G would have rights to withdraw from the partnership.

^^Complications from a fall, an unfortunate post script to what was no doubt a once promising career and life of public service that went awry along the way.

7 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

Amelia and Petronia discuss this at around the 20:00 mark and both would do it. Amelia is a great friend of Michelle.

 

They were both on my list of wishful castings that I posted a few pages ago. I don’t know how involved P&G would be involved in the production process of the actual series but in the old days of PGP, they built this entire universe of talent in front of, as well as behind the camera and these actors would often go back and forth between their soaps. Think of all the actors who went from EON to ATWT and AW to GL and ATWT.

Writers, directors and editors too.

Good. Let those “journalists” continue to peddle their missives about crazy Trump, his sycophants and wackadoodle cult followers since that is more their speed anyway. Whatever happened to waiting a few years after an administration tenure ends and getting some perspective before writing a book? I don’t think these hacks like to write about Democrats anyway. Any books they wrote about Hillary were usually through the lens about her husband’s indiscretions (annd Hillary wrote far more interesting books about herself than they did) and the best-selling books about Obama were written by…Obama. 

Maybe these navel gazing journos ought to start writing books about each other…it would be perfect for them.

19 hours ago, j swift said:

I hope that the discussion of P&G products doesn't dilute my point. 

If CBS creates a soap centered on Black characters, but still measures its success in terms of how many White women within the 25-49-year-old demographic tune in, then no real progress will have been made.  Because that would demonstrate that they still only value and respect the purchasing power of that audience. 

While one assumes that the ratings will be measured and reported similarly to any soap.  It will be instructive to watch how CBS markets the results of the audience it is trying to reach.  In other words, Y&R is still marketed as the most watched soap in daytime.  However, wouldn't it be refreshing if The Gates is promoted as having the largest audience of Black women in daytime, whose buying power has led to x amount of profit for P&G?

Only time will truly tell but with the involvement of the NAACP, I think, chances are the metrics will reflect the centering of Black women as viewers and consumers.

Reading the actual details of how it happened and the cargo ship lost power before striking the bridge and causing the bridge’s collapse. Wow. I do wonder about the state of the bridge and its resiliency (or lack thereof). When I get the chance to read more in depth, maybe it will be more clear.

12 minutes ago, j swift said:

That is a very cool blog entry, thanks for sharing

You’re welcome. 

^^For decades, the U.S. Open used to use towels to mop up wet/damp courts during match play. For decades Wimbledon claimed that it was impossible to continue play after sundown, until they decided it was possible. RG, in all their disputes with the city of Paris over spacing issues, decided to squeeze spectators underneath a sign that fell narrowly missing seriously injuring several spectators and then Australian Open still plays fast and loose with the heat rules. Some players, depending on who backs them up can get less of a suspension for failed drug tests than someone who has missed reporting of location 

Tennis, in general, as a sport is not serious. That’s why it’s even more of a niche sport than it was 7 years ago.

54 minutes ago, j swift said:

I'm less concerned about representation within the show, because the NAACP support guarantees diversity.

But, what I will be interested in is P&G's involvement.  Will they feature Black couples in household product commercials (as consumers and not grocery workers or maids)?  Will they feature hair and skin products developed for Black families?  Will they seek and be satisfied if ratings reflect an increase in Black households over White households?

When I spoke initially of the lack of value and respect paid to LGBTQ and Black audiences, I meant in the financial gain, not just representation.  It is nice if Black actors, writers, and below the line people get jobs.  But, I feel like progress will be seen when companies like P&G market their products directly to that audience and respect the idea that every dollar spent is valuable, not just when 25–49 year old White women go grocery shopping.

If a family acquired their wealth through haircare products, P&G can provide a wealth of information for the soap to draw on as their recent acquisition of Mielle (which was controversial but did not generate as much anger toward the founder as the acquisition of Carol’s Daughter by L’Oreal years ago) can illustrate.

https://us.pg.com/blogs/black-history-month-2023-innovators-series/

If there isn’t direct product placement in the actual show, expect to see some sort of tie-in, either digitally or magazine, etc. to the daytime soap.

As a general rule, I don’t make assumptions as to what could have caused this, but people need to be aware or keep in mind that the vast amount of bridges in the U.S. are in severe disrepair, meaning that, it would not take much for a collapse to occur. Hopefully everyone will be safe and no further injuries will ensue.

I’m watching a miniseries called Nolly starring Helena Bonham Carter as Noele “Nolly” Gordon, an actress who became a legendary soap star and a British television staple who, in the latter stages of her career was unceremoniously fired from the soap she starred in, Crossroads.

Not to mention, L.A. is very much known as a union town, while Atlanta is…er, not so much.  A series like this is probably going to want full access to unionized labor that, preferably has some experience with working in daytime?