will81

Maybe Rod played him for a day and Sean took over after that, haha

Wasn't Jeff played by either Ted Shackelford or Rod Arrants? I remember one of them being mentioned. I know it was someone well known. Yeah I think Kay had a big list of staff on the grounds. I am pretty sure she had cooks we never saw. Of course Jill had her own maid when she moved in around 98/99

Nice, that is pretty interesting - I didn't realise Paul's office was in Newman Towers. Wasn't it some dump of a place originally? Katherine had two maids before Esther - Theresa (seen here) and Ruth. Ruth is first mentioned around 1975 (I assume Theresa probably vanished around 74 or 75) Ruth was fired when Jill had originally planned to give Phillip to Kay in 1976 and Kay was going to sell the house and move to Europe. As far as I know Liz was her only employee seen onscreen until Esther showed up in April 1982.

Yeah I'd go with this. Even if he didn't get a final scene, I would guess it was implied Charlie was gone by the time Eve was poisining Victor. No way he was around during all that Although I was surprised Brock was still living with Kay at the same time Phillip was in summer 1986. So who knows. I always figured Nrock would have told Jill.

Pretty sure Gloria was a friend of Diane's, but not 100% sure of that.

I have't been able to find who played her but I am on the hunt. So hopefully the name will turn up. She wasn't there long as this was the same time John proposed to Jill.

Oh I totally didn't even see it. Thanks

Who was the character on OLTL who committed suicide by accident. I am thinking it was Brad Vernon's mother. She did it as a cry for attention as her husband had fallen in love with Jenny Wolek. Her intention was to have Brad or someone get to her before she died, but he didn't turn up in time as he thought she was faking it or something, so she ended up dying. I am probably messing this up. Anyone know the story.

John McCook debuted Oct 30, 1975 as one of Leslie's fans. The Dec episode is from 1975. I am pretty sure Dec 2 or 3. Janice Lynde shared the episode on the FB group at one point Also Mark Henderson is in that episode, He and Lorie were to be married in Dec 1975. In Dec 1976 Lorie married Lance.

Bell certainly was fond of giving Lauren unhinged characters to deal with. I don't know if Sheila was always the game plan, but I don't think Bell ever saw Lauren and Scott as a long term couple. None of it was end game style writing and yeah the trouble kicked off pretty quickly. Bell never explained Stu's absence even when Liz returned in 1986 after Jill was shot. One of the many characters that vanished into thin air. I believe Liz was living with Snapper and Chris in 1986 and so yeah it was probably assumed Liz and Stu were separated.

Bell wanted John McCook back and they asked him around the end of 1980 to return and he said no. It was between Troy Donahue and Dennis Cole. So they were going for a certain type for sure. I do blame Conboy for that one. Conboy definitely had a big hand in the casting. Lauren and Scott were married at the tail end of December 1989. Sheila rocks up around May 1990 and I think she sleeps with Scott pretty soon after she turned up. At this point Lauren and Scott were 'taking a break' because their marriage was already in trouble. So yeah I don't think Bell ever had much interest in having Lauren and Scott work.

I think Scott was the right character because it was never about the man. I think Paul and Lauren would never have had the issues between them post-Sheila that Lauren and Scott did. I can't see Paul ever suing Lauren for custody of a child. Even in 1992 I don't think Paul wanted to be a father. Peter Barton had just enough chemistry with both women and was never distracting enough to take focus away from Lauren and Sheila. In terms of phasing out of original families. Bell hardly had to try since actors were constantly leaving. Bell preferred to keep original cast members as much as possible and didn't love recasts for his characters. Between 1975 - 1980 Bell lost almost his entire original week one cast. 80 - 82 was not much better. David Hasselhoff wanted out, Wings Hauser left and unfortunately Howard McGillan wasn't working out. With Snapper gone it was harder to justify Chris staying. Pam Peters left for the second time, and the big one was Jaime Lyn Bauer wanting to leave. After that you have Jill and Leslie left. I think Bell wanted to keep Leslie, but it didn't work out and she was shipped off. More than anything the show simply stopped recasting. The only original characters Bell really axed in 1982 were Leslie, Chris and Greg. Every other character was simply not recast when the actor chose to leave. The only other characters he got rid of from the original cast were Stu in 1983 and Liz in 1985.

Didn't know that about Allen, very interesting. Yeah that would have been a doozy to have basically a whole new family in town and not even the familiar face of DD to anchor it. I think once Leslie got pregnant with Lance's baby, she and Brock had little or no interaction again. They didn't even have scene at Victor and Nikki's wedding. Nor did Julia and Brock (I don't think) Yeah I was surprised that Eve rocks up, drops her bombshell, then moves in with Jill and spends more time undermining Liz and not so much time in the Julia/Victor orbit. I think in 1981 It is revealed that Eve and Derek had a past and he could be her son's father. Eve ignores this, it is too inconvenient for her, and with both seeking revenge on Victor they conspire together to make sure Julia finds out Victor had a vasectomy and I think shortly after this Derek is run out of town by Kay. Eve is there until Sep 81, but she barely appears through the summer before Victor pays her off to leave town. Margaret had to have heart surgery, but Bell had every intention of her returning once she recovered. When Bond was Jill she had a few scenes with Derek, begging him to leave Kay and give up on the money and was a minor part of the kidnapping plot, I am convinced though that Jill would have been a major part of that story with Suzanne being more a supporting if Brenda had stayed. I think once Jill moved on first with Steve and then with the Abbott's her only interaction with Derek was at Victor and Nikki's wedding in 1984 Bell definitely kept the Paul/Nikki thing in the background until Nikki/Victor became more a solid thing. Bell really did get lucky with MTS and Eric having the right chemistry. He definitely made them a focal point of the show and was smart to make them part of Lorie's last story too. Then having Terry and Eileen made the perfect quad.

Yeah wow, that is a great recap. Makes total sense as to some of the behind the scenes stuff that was going on. Maybe 1980 was the time Conboy tried to oust Bell and take over. I do think Conboy had talent, but he was short sighted with Y&R and he came across as believing he was largely responsible for its success and that Bell was only a minor part of its success. I also heard when Conboy got Capitol he charged many of the sets for the new show to the Y&R budget and almost crippled Y&R. Not sure how true that is. The Williams intro just seems disjointed and sudden in terms of linking all these random characters together and suddenly they are facing a family crises with Paul heading to the cult and Mary having a miscarriage and then April and baby Heather. It doesn't feel like Bell gave the family a chance to just exist for a bit. It was full steam ahead. Then brunette Patty runs upstairs one day in the middle of summer as Tammy Taylor and comes back down six months later as blonde Lilibet Stern, lol. I agree 80 - 82 feels like a period of trial and error. Even by early 82 as the Stevens are being packed up and shipped off, the show feels stronger. Conboy leaving and H. Wesley Kenney coming on definitely made a big difference. It has been stated Wesley sat down with Bell and basically gave him a laundry list of what was working and what wasn't and they whipped the show into shape pretty quickly after that.

Actually yeah you're right, in terms of story, looking at 1979 it does work, but you can see there was trouble ahead, even without the cast disruptions and the expansion, I think Bell was still going to have a rough 1980, maybe not as rough, but those other elements definitely caused more headaches. Vanessa did take an interest in Stu, and I agree Bell should have pursued this and given Stu and Liz another road block instead of marrying them off. I agree Lance should have hopped a plane to Paris for business and been presumed dead. Not sure I would have married Lorie and Lucas, but having her pursue him in her grief to hold on to the last piece of Lance (Brooks) would have raised the stakes as Leslie got her memory back. I think the cult story could have been more encompassing. You had Paul, Nikki, Peggy and Steve all tied up in it, they all had family/friends that could have been better utilised and I do think Bell could have sown more threads from the fall out of the cult moving into the Autumn. The Williams intro is interesting. In large part because it seems Doug Davidson was negotiating his contract and was MIA through Jan and Feb. Around the week of Jan 7, 1980 Carl is brought in on the Tony Baker case (This was the Nikki/Rose/Greg/Walter Addison story) the following week we meet Steve when he is hired by Stu as a reporter on the newspaper. The next week Steve meets with Greg about the case and mentions his father has given him a few leads on the case. Then nothing until early March when Paul pops back up and boom Paul is now Steve's brother and Carl's son. A couple weeks later Mary just appears and she is pregnant and then Patty comes along. At this point we have Carl solving crimes, Steve meeting Jill, Mary and her late in life pregnancy, Paul and April. It probably was a lot and none of it seems super interesting to be honest.

Actually the show was consistantly hitting #1 or #2 (and sometimes #3) right up to Jan/Feb 1980. I think Bell was chugging along just fine right up to the point at which the show hit an hour. AMC took advantage of this with their masquerade ball around the same week and I think stole a big chunk of viewers that saw that show stabilise and Y&R fall to 5th. I do think Brenda and John's departures along with David's minimised appearance and JLB's pregnany (which restricted what Bell could do with Lorie) really did strike a big blow to the show. It is hard to introduce a set of new characters at the same time that your familiar faces are either gone or unable to lead the show. Plus Leslie walking around with no clue who she was didn't help. Vanessa was done at this point. her entire motivation was destroying Lorie/Lance and she did that. Goal accomplished. With McCook's departure the 4 L's were done. I don't blame Bell for how Lance left as it seems John made a last minute decision to leave the show, but it is silly that after all those years Vanessa managed to trick Lorie into getting a divorce behind Lance's back and he just sort of accepted it and left town and neither fought for their marriage of 3 years. Lorie was initially crying on Michael's shoulder, that seemed to go nowhere. From what I can tell the amnesia story was a bit of a bust, along with the Santa Leandro story, just as Leslie wanted to remember her past and was a threat to Lorie, JLB went on maternity leave and the audience got a new Lorie in Wesley Ann Pfenning which led to Lorie going out of town on a book tour for several weeks and suddenly the 4 L's were somewhat disbanded and replaced by Lucas/Leslie/Jonas/Casey. The problem here was Lucas and Leslie were never in love, so what was at stake here? Why would I watch those four when there was little reason for Leslie and Lucas to even bother reconciling a marriage the was a big fake and now that Leslie had no memory of it anyway and Pris was in love with Jonas, what was the point? For Brooks? He was off in New York with Lorie and when she returned she pointed out that neither Lucas nor Leslie even called once to ask about him, hence her motivation to pursue custody. For absolutely no reason Lucas suddenly wanted to save his marriage which gave some thin motivation for Lorie to go after Lucas to help her case with getting custody of Brooks and allowing a rather weak triangle with Leslie who didn't care for Lucas and Lorie who cared more for Brooks. None of it worked. Jonas gave up Leslie pretty quick and Casey let go of Lucas just as easily. If I was watching I would have had no investment in any of it. As for Jill/Derek/Kay that ended with Brenda's departure. Bell seemed more motivated to give Jill something new, hence the Abbott's and Jabot. The problem with Derek was Bell shifted his motivations which were not in line with his character. Derek was never interested in Kay's money - I guess it somewhat makes sense that he got a taste of the good life and wanted more, but I still don't buy it. Without Jill it just didn't work. Derek loved women and his life as a hairdresser and Kay was still besotted with him, so what was the story here? He seemed more likely to open his salon and simply take up with his clients behind Kay's back, I don't buy his desire to suddenly be a big shot at Chancellor. Nor do I buy Kay's fear of him before the trip on the cruise, plus once she was seeing Douglas why would she keep Derek around? Because he got her hooked on the sauce again? Pretty thin. The other big story was the cult story. Not sure how I feel about that one. I guess @Broderick could say if it worked. Truth is the ratings tanked in Aug 1980 when this was a main story. The show was 7th amongst soaps but 12th overall in daytime. It feels like Bell put a quick end to the story, moved everyone on quickly and there were few ramifications besides Peggy and Steve. Even that resolved itself rather quickly. Stu hated Steve for putting his daughter in danger, Peggy told him to butt out. Then suddenly Peggy had doubts about Steve and was turning to Jack. April/Paul - I'd say due to cast changes and Lynn Topping and David being mostly off screen hurt this one. It stopped and started and repeated itself once Cindy Eilbacher came on. Some mix up with Dorothy and Wayne thinking Steven was the father and then Greg and April wanting to be together and Nikki geting in their way and Greg hating Paul. None of it seems too exciting to me. Even Nikki scheming didn't last long and she gave up and moved on. Victor/Julia/Brock/Michael - This stopped started too. Bell seemed to be moving Lorie and Victor together, but when JLB's pregnancy started to show and she was having issues he stopped this pairing and Lorie refused to get involved with Victor as he was married. Julia (like every woman in GC) only wanted a friendship with Brock. He leaves and then Julia and Michael meet through their work at Jabot. This story was another stop/starter. Eve added some spice I guess and the eventual Michael in the dungeon story, which was more 1981. John/Jill/Jack - I said above Jabot seemed to be intergrated well, but this triangle seemingly went nowhere. Very little seemed to occur until its resolution in early 81. Jack wanted Jill she wanted John, John was too afraid to make a move. He finally does just as Jill sleeps with Jack, John leaves town heartbroken. The end. Liz/Stu/Eve - This was a rather minor story that didn't go anywhere. Stu would never cheat on Liz and Eve was more involved in the Victor story so I can't imagine it was all that interesting either. The Williams - Paul had story, Patty didn't and was gone for six months between recasts. Mary had an interesting late in life pregnancy and miscarriage. All rather minor stories for the family as a whole. Again this all from putting together synopsis, so those who watched may have had a different experience or may remember things not in synopsis that made these stories better than they read.

I'd agree, if Lauren hadn't gotten pregnant. Honestly that was her lynch pin to Scott, because prior to Sheila drugging Scott, Lauren and Scott were on thin ice. I don't think even Bell saw them as any real end game. The big fight was over Lauren's baby not so much Scott. It was a Single White Female sort of situation. Once Sheila fled, Lauren wasn't so quick to reconcile with Scott and had an affair with Brad during their second marriage (basically forced upon her by Scott) I think Sheila's obssession was always to have a stable home life with a husband and child and all the things she felt she never had. She wanted a man to love her, Scott represented this, honestly it could have been any man, and that's what Scott became, the every man. Sheila's paranoia with Lauren was only because she was constantly on edge that Lauren would find out she had switched the babies and her whole life would come crashing down. Her focus on Lauren post farmhouse fire was simply because Lauren knew Eric Forrester - Lauren was a means to an end, but at that point never Sheila's obssession. She was just constantly in her way. I don't think Bell ever really made Sheila and Lauren about Scott. It was bigger than him and I always felt it was about the two women, he was just a piece in the puzzle. Scott was the initial catalyst, but Bell always made it about deeper emotions and motivations than simply a man.

Traci and Danny were divorced in 1985 and by the end of that year Bell had begun to bring Traci and Brad together. In early 86 Danny starts to wonder if maybe he made a mistake letting go of Traci, but Brad asks him to step back and he does. Just as Traci and Brad marry, Cricket returns to town and for the most part this is the end of Traci and Danny. I think they perform together that year at a concert, but by 1987 neither has anything to do with each other. It is strange, Cricket was Traci's step-sister for a time, yet Traci had nothing to do with Danny and Cricket's lives. In 1987 due to the Phillip/Cricket/Danny triangle, which saw Cricket and Phillip engaged, and at the same time Lauren being let loose from Paul, I guess Bell decided to briefly have Lauren and Danny back in each others orbits, they hadn't really interacted much in years at that point. It was brief as Lauren moved on to Brad almost immediately. I think when Brenda Dickson was playing Jill, Bell had intended a Jill/Brad/Lauren triangle, but when Jess took over, it was clear she and Don had no chemistry and it seemed to be dropped. Lauren and Danny were pretty well done once Lauren went after Brad.

This is why I am obssessed with the 80 - 82 period. Y&R is always so together and orderly for the most part during Bell's run, but this period was rather messy by Y&R standards. I think with Kay, Jeanne mentioned she was to be fired and Kay killed off when she took the jump off the cruise ship, but Bell changed his mind (I think she happened to get some favourable viewer mail around the time) I assume he decied to keep Kay but had no idea what to do with her after the Felipe story ended. Through most of 1981 she has little to do, she certainly appeared but mostly as a side character, until Bell pairs her with Nikki and Cash. I dare say it wasn't really until 1982 that Kay became more pivotal to the canvas again though. I agree, though I didn't watch like you did, even in synopsis you can tell what was working and what wasn't and what Bell seemed to be on top of. Though Halsey reportedly was let go due to lack of chemistry, Bell was able to still maintain focus on Jabot through Jack taking over. Bell didn't just abandon Jabot. I'd say the chemistry with Deb and Terry helped and Lilibet coming on as well, plus Terry in general must have inspired Bell to keep things going. Within a year John came back along with Mamie and shortly after Ashley and Traci. As you say all characters mentioned long before they appeared. I do believe he had a vision for Jabot and the Abbotts and held on to it because even without John, he kept Jack/Jill and Jabot going through 1981 when he easily could have junked it. So many other things were being thrown out when they didn't work.

I wonder, is it also possible Bond had a 13 week deal, her agent kicks up a fuss at the end of it for a bigger more ironclad contract. Conboy and Bell aren't having it, but they keep Bond until they can find a new Jill?

Thanks for that. I agree Bell was pulling out all the stops, but somewhere along the way Bond's agent did something to get her fired. Between May - July Jill and John are scarcely around. It may have been Bell slowly integrating the story/characters or maybe they were using that time to hunt for new actors / wait for Halsey to return (if he was indeed in the role in May). It is hard to tell. Jill and John would be on one week, then seemingly vanish the next. As far as I can tell Jill and John appear the week of June 30 1980 and then vanish until the week of July 21, 1980. That's a big gap and seems to be the point at which Deb Adair took over and Brett either took over or came back. It sounds like the Jabot ball gets rolling (It is also a part of the Julia/Michael/Victor story and Jill works on the Julia campaign) but the triangle seems to be a non starter that barely goes anywhere until it is resolved a few months later. In fairness I have assumed things. Bond never said what her agent did, and I never pushed the subject. It was implied he asked for more money, but she never said that. She just said he made moves that got her fired. You would think that means money, money, money, but I have no idea. Bond was adamant that Bell and Conboy were happy with her and she was getting great feedback.

For the record here is the announcement from Aug 10, 1980

Bond also said this in response to one of my posts. She stated Conboy and Bell were very happy with her and so her agent made some moves that got her shown the door. It was 1980, everything was in a state of flux and Conboy didn't have the time for negotiations. Yes Jill got the job in May but the $1M question is who was playing John. Halsey is announced in Aug 1980 along with Deborah and no mention that he played the role andwent on leave and came back. Sean is not mentioned at all anywhere. I would think this would have made the soap press and especially Jon-Michael Reed's column, but nothing. Some people on FB group state they are sure Sean was John first and Halsey took over, others elsewhere are certain Halsey was on for a couple episodes, disappeared and was replaced with Sean before coming back. I can't find anything pre Aug 1980 about John Abbott and who played him. In synopsis Jill gets hired, then is aimless for two weeks until John returns from a business trip. That would be roughly June when we have that ep of Sean Garrison. Then the pair are on and off for the next month and off again until Deborah, Brett and Terry are all on board the week of July 21 1980. In other words, John and Jill barely appear between the time he hires her in May and the recasts in July

I never saw it, but it seems to have been a non starter. Barely anything happens in 1980 and then the triangle ends in Mar 81 and Brett Halsey is shown the door. Apparently he was a dud on the chemistry scale. Seems Bell had more luck with Jill/Jack/Patty over the summer of 1981 before moving Jill on to Andy. In 1982 Jill makes ammends with John for sleeping with Jack, since Jill and John were never actually together (he was too hesitant to start anything) he forgave her and they began dating.

Don't think he does stick around long, maybe just a few months. Pretty certain he never made it to 1997. Yeah it's awesome you were able to find this. Here is the newspaper article from July 24, 1980. Also mentions his next two episode dates. I have a sneaking suspicion Deborah Adair and Brett Halsey were both brought on the same week. Maybe they started on Mon July 21 and Terry came on the next day.