will81

I am certain that the less Bill Bell was involved the more corportate interference crept in.

Spermgate, Michael and Chris becoming more than work collegues and Paul raping Chris was the point the show chose scandal to bring in or stabilise viewers and began abandoning subtstantive story telling and character development. The insemination story of 99/00 wasn't so bad that the show couldn't just move on and forget it to a certain extent, I hate the story and what it did to three characters, but it was a minor dint and I could get over it. John Smith returning in Jun 02 was the point that these types of stories were becoming more common. The 02/03 season was a travesty and for me it only got worse over the next few years until I stopped watching completely in 06. The other big one from that time was Sharon making the moves on Victor, the true end of Sharon. And another being Lorie's return, which did not respect the legacy of that character and made her a simp for Victor, like every other woman. Bell's foundations were so strong that it took years to really unravel, but 2000 onwards was the beginning of the end. 2001-02 is the point I can no longer keep watching the show anymore. I don't even watch episodes when they pop up from that era on. I think Bell's illness getting much worse, Ed Scott leaving and Smith taking over all happened during this same time.

I would love a character that is older and based off someone like Jane Fonda or Joan Baez. Someone who is still out there getting arrested for what they believe in. Even if people do or don't agree with her politics or idealogies, the Jane Fonda's of the world are fascinating to me. However I also loved having Grandma Alice on my tv too and I think there is a place for both types of people. Even in the 80's Alice was still mixing it up here and there.

For sure. Reading about her fights with Laura when Mickey was missing, I was like, who is this woman? Not the Alice I grew up with. She seemed much more well rounded and more full as a character and not just Grandma Alice. I guess people in life tend to mellow as they get older. It would have been more interesting to keep the edge to Alice as an ongoing character trait.

If you think about Alice as a real world person, she went through the Great Depression and WWII. You had to be strong to survive. There simply wasn't the space for weakness and examining ones inner self. Marie grew up in far more prosperity and a much safer environment, despite the lingering threat of war. I think this scene really demonstrates the generation gap of that era. Maybe without even meaning to.

It is horrific. It was apparently happening all over the world and who knows, probably still is. We only got access to about 20% of documentation on some of the experiments/abuse that occured, the other 80% was destroyed and plenty was probably never documented or was hidden. I shudder to think about the projects that happened or are happening that we have no idea about and the people that are unwilling participants/victims.

No worries - I am generally in the Y&R thread, though I lurk about in most of them. Y&R and Days aired together in my country, so they were always my main ones. Yeah I wanted to tell them Sony might hit them, but I am too paranoid about leaving a comment in case it results in the bot tracking them down, haha.

@DRW50 Thanks for that! I follow this channel and they have a ton of rare early tv broadcasts which seem to be taken directly from the 16mm kinescope and are great quality compared to 2nd or 3rd gen I have seen, though I guess this ep is probably in a vault somewhere in colour. Not sure this has been online before to be honest. @JAS0N47 would probably know better.

Is this from AW? If so then yes this is the same man as confirmed by this article (Jan 19, 1979)

Yeah true. I think Brenda just performs it like she has no idea who Nikki is - either she is playing Jill like she forgot they were in-laws, or playing her like she is distancing herself "I don't know her" Lol.

I think so. In one set of synopsis Jill pushes Stu to let them have the wedding at the Brooks home, in other synopsis it is Chris that requests this. I assume she was there though. If it was relatively small, they must have had some interaction. It does seem he kept it minor. Considering by 1984 Jill seems to have forgotten who Nikki is, haha.

I will say, it seems odd if Jill didn't confront Nikki during the whole Walter Addison story. Especially when Liz got shot. Maybe there was a small interaction, but as far as I can tell I don't think there was. I know Deb Adair was in the role by that point, so maybe Bill was re-establishing Jill in her new Abbott sphere. I believe Terry Lester's first scenes involved Jack rushing Jill to the hospital (which I understand where some of Deborah's first scenes as well). Still it would have been great to have had something between them while Nikki was married to Greg. I also found it odd that Brenda's Jill refers to Nikki as a former stripper when she is about to go to her wedding to Victor, almost like she had never known of her before. Despite the fact Nikki was her sister-in-law. Though from a character perspective, I guess it doesn't surprise me too much.

True. I guess it says a lot that the closest woman friend she ever had was her mother.

I honestly feel Jill would never have liked Nikki, tolerated and been nice to her, but that's all. She may have thought she was okay enough to marry Greg, but I just don't see them being friends. Jill may have been poor, but she believed she was rich and cultured. She aspired to it. I think she would have seen Nikki as a little beneath her. I actually think it made sense for Jill in 1979 to really never even try to be friends with Nikki. A scene here or there, maybe. Brenda had chemistry with everyone, so I think both women would have made it work if they had to, but character wise I don't see it happening.

Yeah I'd say the divorce from Victor and marriage to Jack changed her. Peter always acted like he was doing Shakespeare and I guess his overly serious tone as Jack, as opposed to Lester's boy in a man's body performance, probably pushed Melody to step her game up. However, I do think the pill and alcohol addiction story would have happened and Melody would have still pushed to act the hell out of it. Plus we head into the 90's at that point and acting on soaps was changing. So I think Melody would have had a similar trajectory with Nikki anyway. I also feel Lester's performance would have changed too. He may have started things with Jack being far more out of his depth and I feel like he would have played Jack as simply not wanting to deal with Nikki's issues. So he gives in to her over and over, he is still that boy prentending to be a man. However, I think whether intended or not, Jack still would have left that marriage far more grown up, especially if Bell still had Nikki lose their baby as a result of Victor. I think it would have been amazing to watch if it had played out that way. I feel with Peter Bregman we skipped the part where Jack grew up, as he always played him more as an adult.

I am pretty sure, without naming her, Kay Alden mentioned that Erica was too much like her character and often wouldn't even turn up and they had no other choice but to replace her. Probably why they went a slightly different direction with MTS being cast. Once bitten, twice shy and all that

I honestly enjoy discussing these type of details. Linda and Larry Larkin was his first real story, besides minor supporting role stuff. After that wrapped up he had little to do until about Apr 79 when Greg and Nikki began dating, which led to the Nick Reed confrontation. I do wonder if Bill was a Superman fan or something. Lois Lane, Lana Lang etc... Casey came in almost as a replacement for Chris when Trish Stewart left in March, I think Casey popped up the following week. Not sure if they always intended to replace Trish or not. Her first story was a sort of romance with Snapper, then Chris returns (now Lynn Topping) and Snapper has to decide. Nikki came on in May. So it is possible Nikki was always intended to be part of the show or Bell quickly created her once he saw Roberta as Casey. There isn't much of a gap between them

I'd say in terms of Greg, I doubt it. Wings was on by very late Nov 77 and I don't think Greg and Nikki interacted until early 79. Fairly sure it was after Melody was in the role, around the time Nick Reed showed up. Pretty sure Bill Bell never really thought out such connections a year or more in advance, so I assume he got Nikki and Greg together as it suited the Nick story, of him being jealous of Greg dating his daughter, and maybe MTS and Wings had chemistry that Bill thought was worth exploring. I could be wrong though. I do get the feeling Nikki was possibly a character that he thought had some potential, but was easy to dismiss if she wasn't working. Of course why go to the trouble of recasting and remaking her if you aren't at least somewhat invested. If I had to guess I would say Bill Bell was more invested in Casey and wanted to expand her sphere by bringing in her sister and father, then it went from there and once MTS was in the role he saw the potential. No doubt by 1981 Bill Bell made Nikki a much larger focus of the show. I think it is worth reiterating that Roberta had auditioned as a sub for Jaime Lyn Bauer and wasn't successful but the show told her to hold tight because they had a longer term role for her. So I do feel the idea that Roberta and Casey were seen as important is probably more true. I think MTS probably made Bell take more notice of Nikki.

Leslie realistically probably couldn't afford the place, but Bell seemed to fluctuate the Brooks between well-to-do (upper middle class, a term I'm not sure was used in the 70's) and very wealthy. In the first or second episode Stuart makes a point of saying his family isn't rich, just well-to-do. I think this was abandonded at some point or whenever Bell needed them to have a lot of money for story purposes. Leslie bought Pierre's after her breakdown and I get the feeling it was a place for her to hide. There was a short story of Maestro basically forcing Les to perform again and Les being resentful of him pressuring her. I think they have a confrontation about it at one point. I think story wise it was her way of having a musical connection without performing on stage as she was too frightened to. In Dec 74 Greg goes to Leslie and asks her to rehire Gwen at Allegro, so I guess she was hands on when it was needed, but I am pretty sure she really didn't run the place and by 1975 Brock was running it.

The Edward story ended in Sep 81 and Jonas was there and by New Year of 82 I think Leslie went to Lucas and told him to get his sh*t together and run Jonas'/Allegro because Jonas had left town or something. I am sure I remember reading a quote from Jerry Lacy that he hadn't been on screen much before they let him go, so his last appearance was probably sometime before Jan 82. Lol writing at the same time. Synopsis is confusing. He may have been there in Jan 82 to hand over the club, but it also reads as if Jonas is already gone.

She travelled through time at some point too. By 1981 Leslie went from missing for 6 months to being gone for 3 - 5 years.

Jonas' Club was both two towns over from GC and at the same time somewhere in New York, haha.

Bill Espy may have been on set that day but not taping, he and Janice Lynde were already dating at that time apparently. So he may have been just there to see her, or Jeanne could be remembering wrong. Maybe he welcomed her that week, or maybe she was on set prior to actually taping her episode for whatever reason. I just feel Bill Bell was firm when he corrected Jeanne and said Jan 1974. I always felt prior to his illness he had a pretty sharp memory. Plus in 2004 she celebrated 30 years on Jan 28, 2004 with Joe LaDue there, though many said maybe it was a delayed celebration. Variety also doesn't announce Jeanne as joining the show until Feb 1974, though they may have been delayed in announcing it. This is also why I really want to put it to rest. There is at least some circumstantial evidence for Jan 28, 1974. Nov 1973 has never had any strong evidence at all. Even Jeanne said she started 6 months after everyone else, even with pre-emptions that would put her first air date in Oct 1973. She goes to say this again on Donahue in 1990 and that is when Bell cuts in and says "You started in January 1974" I don't care which day is right, but it annoys me, haha. I really want to finally figure this out.

I'd also like to put to rest Jeanne Cooper's first air date. I am 99% sure it is Jan 28, 1974. But there will always be a tiny bit of doubt in my mind. Bill Bell himself said she started in Jan 1974 when they were on Donahue and it makes sense that the reason the Jan 28 episode is out there is because it is her first. However, Nov 73 has been said so many times that I would love to finally clear it up.

@allmc2008 Understood. It is difficult to feel willing to share things if you have been treated poorly and disrespected