DRW50

You've lost me. Passive survival is pretty much the traditional view of a strong woman not a challenge to it. Book Sansa is a passive little girl who doesn't come across as especially clever. I don't blame her, I'm not sure I was especially proactive and clever at 11 either. If you find that version of the character complex, I think we have different ideas of what that word means, but hey, I can agree to disagree as we usually do. The traditional view of a strong woman, especially in this genre, is Arya, or Buffy Summers. They kick ass and they take names. The "not like other girls" trope. Sansa is supposed to be one of those "other girls." Yet she never really is that simple to categorize. I do think book Sansa is complex. I'd say she is one of the most complex characters in the books. We see her struggling with a child's jealousies and resentments even as she has to deal with the cold, hard realities surrounding her. Some of her own making, some not. Some of her chapters are brilliantly written, and harrowing - the chapter where she is kept in her room with Jeyne Poole day after day, and finally just on her own, catspaw of Cersei, trying to keep her father safe. Or seeing her thinking about all the beatings she's suffered and the sickening reality that this is day after day of her life. There's no moment where she gets to kill a guard or some sort of "win" - the main win is that she doesn't let this life tear her down psychologically and she uses what is around her to slowly mature. To me that is complex.

A part of me is convinced that Iain Macleod added in that brief scene (which wasn't mentioned anywhere else in the episode) of Sam saying Lawrence didn't load his gun when he told him to threaten Ronnie, as this was a tacked-on attempt to make him seem less unhinged, and another part of me thinks it's unfair of me to assume Kate Oates didn't do it. Other than that overbaked hammy moment near the end, I actually thought the Lawrence and Ronnie scenes were decent, and the earlier Ronnie and Sam scene was a lot better than I thought it would be, but I feel like I'm grading on very low expectations. I'm glad the show hasn't forgotten about Dan taking college classes, hasn't gone to the usual comedy route of saying what an idiot he is so why bother. I do think that Jimmy is going to end up causing some harm to Ashley and the kids. I hope that doesn't happen. I know she's a leech but I can't help feeling somewhat sorry for Holly. I'm just glad Cain didn't actually kiss her. Going on spoilers I thought he would.

I saw the end, and while I appreciate the attempt at a big umbrella effect, the way it was done was so oddly stodgy and slow. Tracy's "shocked" face and the acting from Fiz and Tyrone...and I am ashamed to say I LOL when Cathy went flying. I did love Gail slapping Carla (not so much the huffing and puffing from the family like she was some zoo animal). That was old school Gail. Carla did look gorgeous. Nick doesn't know what he's missing.

Yes. They said he was molested in boarding school. And yes, he did go to boarding school, but the only reason they even had the abuse retcon was to say that sexual abuse victims go on to become serial killers. I was and am sickened. Sickened. And Weston thought she was so damn insightful too. They can kiss my ass.

For me GL was stabbed in the gut in 1993 and the corpse was desecrated with the Ben Reade child molestation story in 2003. The former was when it really got into a place that it was starting to be too late, and the latter was the final atrocity. In some ways I'm still actually surprised the final week was as decent as it was, considering what the show had become.

Understanable. However, I am sure many of those fans probably recanted their statements if they watched the show from about 03-09. While the show was overall in a better place in 1985, I can't really say that bizarre OTT trash like the Charlotte Wheaton storyline was that far removed from GL's last decade. Um...you thought TGL was in a good place in TGL? Now you've done it. This will be my first cat-fight on the SON boards!!! (I jest, I jest. Sort of, LOL!) I meant compared to 2003-2009.

Understanable. However, I am sure many of those fans probably recanted their statements if they watched the show from about 03-09. While the show was overall in a better place in 1985, I can't really say that bizarre OTT trash like the Charlotte Wheaton storyline was that far removed from GL's last decade.

Jude Cunningham is returning after nearly 20 years. http://www.soapsquawk.co.uk/hollyoaks-comeback-jude-cunningham/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOz-VS8f74A

I don't care if people love or hate Sansa's current story. That's up to them. I said that I don't think D&D write complex characters and used what was done to Sansa as an example. For me it destroyed Sansa and the previous material for her on the show. Others disagree, you disagree, and that's fine.

I'd say the book Sansa is fairly complex. Sansa is complex because she challenges the idea of what being a "strong woman" is about. She undergoes horror after horror, and she survives, but she never survives in the way that some need to see in order to feel validated (which is Arya and her "badass" scenes). The show generally did this right with Sansa for most of the first 3-4 seasons, but from the point of the dramatic reveal of her with the black dress and hair so that Baelish could look on in awe, she became more and more of the stereotypical idea of what she was supposed to be. The nadir of this was when they had her lose 50 IQ points and agree to a marriage with a man who was obviously a monster, and then they tried to pass off a season of her being raped, being imprisoned, and jumping off a building as "empowerment." It's an odious cliche to say that a woman like Sansa can't be strong unless she's raped. It was basically saying she was nothing before her rape. It also meant that someone who had spent years knowing how to not anger her abusers would suddenly forget all of that and hurl insults at a man she knew was a psychotic rapist, torturer and murderer, because someone on the show likely saw this as "strong" as well. The complex Sansa pretty much died last season because D&D with that story said she was not and had never been good enough and that the only validation for her was through a brutal sexual assault.

I'd guess Larkin's appearance in later years - either that or the show just not remembering. I think many say 1984 was the downfall.

I'm not sure if shock value rape = love. Sansa is a complex character. D&D don't do complexity.

He must have some high friends at ITV, along with the talentless Jennie McAlpine.

Sadly it's all about protecting Phil. I do hope Shirley says something when the truth comes out. To Phil and to Ben. I agree Denise could be that - if they bothered.

The scene with Ben and Stacey was a rare example of soap camp done right. They're both hyperdramatic people, clashing for reasons that made story sense (mostly). It was high-octane without going too far into shouting, fighting, "bitch" or "slag" or fake slaps. I loved it a lot. You can see where Steven's return will fit in. The wheels are turning for Ian and they're rolling right over Bobby. He's a bad lad. He has, as Martin said, the "wrong wiring." In other words - he's the new Steven. It's an interesting idea - Ian having to face a history of damned children - but it's undercut by the generally one-dimensional portrayal of Bobby and by the show's decision to hype and market the idea that Bobby is a psycho killing machine, just as Santer and DTC marketed Steven years ago in lieu of actually telling a complex story. Unfortunately, this means rather than chastising Ian for yet again giving up on a child, I wonder if most viewers are saying, "Damn right." When Phil said Max deserved to go to prison for sleeping with a woman half his age, I deliriously hoped Ben would say, "Like Dawn?" I assume Ben, like all people blessed in life, managed to block out that storyline. I was pleasantly surprised that Pam is starting to figure out Babe's blackmail through reasons that make sense (Babe and her laptop, Babe being an aggressive, smug witch). I hope that will continue. My main problem with the Bobby scenes - well, this part of the story anyway - is I feel like someone in the writing team said, "Wouldn't it be hilarious if Bobby told the truth and NOBODY BELIEVED HIM?" Well, it might, if the story hadn't dragged on for two years and didn't have so many characters made to look monstrous by lying for him. Today was also a classic example of just how meaningless and damaging Eastenders' idea of "matriarch" has become. Sharon is sold as Ma Mitchell, protecting and looking out for...well, just Phil really, but occasionally, they pretend it's the whole family. That means she's complicit in a lie that not only keeps an innocent man in prison, but allows a damaged boy who nearly killed her son to continue to be free, all because she has to make sure Phil faces zero consequence for jury tampering. Kathy's return was supposed to be about how she would help her family, but she's actually utterly useless in every respect. She instead offers nonsensical platitudes. If nothing else sums up the misogyny that plagues modern Eastenders, these two ladies in their current state give it a good try. I'm not sure what concerns me more with Roxy's "story" - that someone was paid for this idea, or that it actually isn't even one of the worst stories she's had. Abi was very annoying in her handful of scenes today. No matter what happens with this character, petulance and delusion is still too much of a default. If we're heading into a phase of the story where we're supposed to feel sorry for her and see her as an injured party, Lorna's either going to have to get a lot better or the writing is going to have to drastically improve for me to care. Is it me or did Mr. Kellie Bright look a bit like a young Paul Nicholas? All the stress has turned Malachy's hair white.

http://www.itv.com/emmerdale/extras/exclusive-summer-on-emmerdale-2016

Really? It mostly sounds so generic to me, like everything about him.

I really enjoyed most of the reception scenes (at least the portions that were about the Fowlers), most of all the mentions of Mark and Michelle. I will also say that for whatever reason the letter from Michelle felt more like her than most of the mentions of her over the years. The best part of the discovery scenes was when Sharon growled, "Get him outta here." If that doesn't become a meme, someone is asleep on the job. I literally laughed out loud when they actually went with the "blood on Bobby's hands" cliche to a point of making sure we saw him get blood on his hands. That one scene was the clearest example of why I simply do not care about this story - it's all "shock," all cheap pulp, zero heart. And Bobby himself remains an empty plot device. I thought today was one of Adam Woodyatt's best performances in quite a while. If I cared about ANY of this material today it was because of him. As I saw someone already mention - terrible continuity in regards to Peggy's death and the Mitchells. If anyone ever asked me (which they won't, obviously) why I don't believe in a "Mitchell family," I would show them this episode. Everything with Ben was the definition of plot point writing - barely having a second to have a reaction because he had to immediately start pushing for Bobby to be protected. It's too bad, as Harry Reid was good. Kim and Roxy both felt tired as hell. I think the former in particular has reached her shelf life barring a major shift in writing - there are other characters who can fill the annoying comic relief role. I still don't understand why Ronnie is so attached to Andy, other than, again, plot point writing. If DTC were staying I would say that he would turn out to be her son. Jack Derges goes from making me laugh a bit when he makes "angry" faces to genuinely impressing me in other moments. I tend to agree with those who feel Mick was shoehorned in.

Haven't watched all of this so no idea if it has any spoilers:

I always thought the 80s theme was overrated as hell. They went from the grand, majestic, sweeping 70s theme to that? The grand, majestic, sweeping theme doesn't really fit with what ATWT had become. It's jarringly out of place with the era of Stenbeck and Margo and the many flop Dobson characters who invaded Oakdale. To me the '80s theme fits that period well, and also works well for Marland's run.