DRW50

By that time Valerie was moving out of Oakdale, so I don't think we got to see what the story might have been, but, going on my memories of watching a decade ago, I liked the story. It was smaller, quieter, more character-based, and well-acted. And I agree that Kate, like Suzanne Davidson, felt "real," which is something that (aside from Lily) would be something ATWT started moving away from in the '80s and onward (they seemed to start again in the show's last few years, with characters like Parker, but by then it didn't matter). I love watching Judith McConnell but I am not sure we'll ever see the strongest material she had as Valerie - if she had any. It seems like someone at ABC and P&G decided to just hire some actors recently fired from GH and hope for the best. At least I can finally say I've seen Martin West as Don, with that enthralling dinner party clip just uploaded. Honestly, he's much more Boy Scout-esque than I had expected considering his years playing wicked Phil Brewer. This does fit the Hughes family, in some ways. Conrad Fowkes plays the character as a little darker, if still dull. After seeing that clip, I'm all the more disappointed Robert Altman likely never saw soaps. Barbar Rodell would have absolutely killed in one of his films. Or an Alan Rudolph film.

I read The Long Winter over and over as a kid. I still remember the passages where Laura was slowly dying on the sled, and how cold the rooming house she stayed in was, how even getting under the blankets was too much. I have seen some claim that the books are white supremacist or fascist or what have you, or they say that is true of the background of them. I don't remember them well enough to say. I do think going back to them for source material isn't a bad idea. I just wish it wasn't Netflix, which is generally slop (even what I enjoy on their service is slop). I am hoping at the least they don't try to emulate that smug hack Taylor Sheridan.

I agree ten minutes would make short scenes easier to watch than forty. I think the 10-15 minute format benefits from longer scenes, rather than shorter scenes, but with care, there could be a balance. It's just a shame we don't have that on soaps anymore. Before anyone steps in I know this is off topic so I'll stop.

I don't know if anyone who is advocating for a 10-to-15-minute soap wants 10 minutes of fast scenes. I would go back to the old formats of 15 minute soaps - a small cast with a few guest performers, 2-3-4 scenes in that episode. I also think someone who is not Frank Valentini and is a better producer would manage the format. It goes beyond just short scenes with him, as last year the scenes lengthened and I still don't think the show was very good outside of a few moments and performers. I do think some younger people might watch a soap if it was 15 minutes and made easily available to them. Of course they aren't going to just watch any show. The soaps have been poorly written, produced, and acted much of the time for years and years now. They aren't going to just tune into something because it's shorter. I'd never say B&B is better just because it's shorter. I would say that a 30 minute show allows for more improvement and possibilities. 60 minutes was out of network greed, not to enhance the genre. I do think that with improved quality, a 15 minute soap would be more likely to bring new viewers in today's world than a 60 minute soap. But of course, even with a shorter runtime, if the quality doesn't improve, and if the producers and network actively fight story that was bringing in new fans or exciting fans who had lost interest (like Trina/Spencer did), then nothing will change.

That is the main stuff, yes.

I think there were some decent moments with Dorian and David in the show's last decade, I just think the whole "we see each other" type of relationship they had in 1995 was compelling and true to both characters. In these '76-'77 episodes that aspect of Matt and Dorian also interests me the most, more than when they push too much of his sexual or romantic desire for her. I definitely don't want to take a lot of shots at Robin just based on some old episodes from 50 years ago. I know she had a great deal of trauma in the part, whereas Nancy was only there for part a decade and never returned. I suppose it's just, as you said, we were all talked out about Dorian after what was done with her in the show's later years, and now suddenly we are reminded of what could have been. I didn't mind the mansion either, I just think taking everything might have led to a fresh approach with the character and given Robin a new set of cards.

According to Schemering's book, GH's organ music was inventive and fun, which is one of the reasons it held on so long. I thought of Dorian and David too. They are what Dorian and David were around 1995. Later on they either made David too good or they made him too comedic to the point of being brain dead. I often wanted to see someone kick him in the ass in his later appearances. The only value he brought was showing just how much Ford struggled to rock a Speedo. I know Robin became so OTT out of job security (or that's one of the big theories), but it's still sad to think of what Dorian became. And we should never see her under the table servicing someone. By that point the character had lost so much of herself. If OLTL had gone on I wish they could have taken away all the trappings, like the mansion and the whole "Cramer women" crutch, and maybe we could have seen those flashes of Pinkerton again.

That's a good idea about Dan leaving the family but not dying oncamera (which they'd do with Gunnar later on - although they never brought him back either). Dreary characters and a moribund atmosphere were the biggest problems. The Dobsons did try to bring in some livelier characters, some of them worked, some didn't, but they also had quite a few dullards. I'm deeply grateful to be able to see this May 1979 episode, mainly for the Ralph and Joyce scene and for the moments with Dan wrestling with his illness as Kim talks about their dream home, but unfortunately this still seemed to suffer from the same problems as others I've seen from this period in having such long stretches of tedium. There was no need for the John material (much as I enjoyed seeing him with Kim), the Willows material or the material with Doug. I'd actually forgotten until Doug started going on about finding Marcia that their story was still around by the time of the WLS uploads from October/November. I find Doug to be oddly attractive but that would not be enough to make me sit through that plot for months, especially with that dreary Annie in the mix. And the Willows going on for months and months is also questionable to me. I still like the gothic feel and Lisa being in a new setting, but Bennett isn't well cast, and the mystery is already too obvious. I don't really think the Don and Joyce scene is as strong as it could be either. I am not sure if the episode before this had Don overhearing, but the way it was executed here where we just hear him ask to talk to her afterward and then most of his reaction amounts to mean mugging - it doesn't work for me. The biggest issue may be that I'm not sure there was any need for ATWT to be an hour show. Kim/Dan and Joyce/Don/Ralph were all we should have had and would have had in a half hour. Even with all the stunts the Dobsons brought in, a lot of early '80s still feel tedious. I don't think the show ever figures out how to work in the hour format until around 1984 or 1985. I did love the Ralph and Joyce moment though, mainly through Barbara Rodell's performance - she managed to make you feel sorry for Joyce as she is clearly insane. The cliffhanger with Joyce is also somewhat effective, even if it made me think of poor Anton Yelchin. I wonder if this episode is the last mention of Sandy Hughes (or whatever her last name was by the end).

Those July 1980 ATWT/GL episodes had been up before (on one of the pannoni channels) but these may be different recordings, I can't remember if those had the commercials included or if those were posted separately. Either way, it's nice to see them again, especially the GL episode as there's some good Rita content, and early Vanessa.

I saw on an old Youtube comment that they should have kept Lisa and Joyce as rivals for longer by killing Mary and having a whodunit. That could have been interesting (I know GH was doing the same with Diana around the same time, but there's no such thing as originality).

Not sure how recent these interviews are (they do mention the oral history) but they are interviews with Tom Lisanti and Louise Shaffer. I should warn they sound like they were recorded while being buried underground.

Thanks. That would be so lovely to see. I'm glad at least we have the recap. I saw Susan Lucci's comments recently about Agnes being the first to have glamour or humor on soaps. I don't think that's entirely true (you have glamour with Meg on Love of Life, or comedy with Stu and Marge on Search for Tomorrow), but she may have been the first to fuse everything into one product and to allow viewers to accept that fusion. (the only fusion involving AMC I would support)

I thought GH used it up to the early/mid '70s.

Don would have made more sense, especially given his history with Lisa. Maybe they didn't want too many older male characters around and Don would have been more prominent than Ralph. It wouldn't have cost the show much to kill Mary off. Nothing against Kelly Wood but the character bores me to tears (that May 1979 episode is one of the few I've seen where she has a bit of presence....and one of the few where she is flatteringly styled).

I've seen some clips of Chinese soaps that go online and are a minute or less. They pack in a lot of drama, almost hysterically so. A lot of drama is better than no drama, but I'm not sure if it works for me in the soap format. I do think soaps, if they had a much smaller cast and tighter focus, could benefit from returning to a 15-minute format. Or even 10. That seems to be the attention span of many people now.

Thanks.

The irony is ABC is the network that set the whole notion of casting unconventional leading men, with Tony Geary. Yet they didn't pay attention to their own lessons. Loving got lucky with Robert Tyler and they did a good job casting younger men in the early '90s, but they often got it wrong with Curtis. They tried over and over but it never clicked (I guess Linden Ashby was popular but he only stayed a few years). If they had actually tried to write for Chris' Curtis properly instead of making him a headcase and heel, it would have opened up the canvas.

In the Marland era Vanessa's type seemed to be whatever moved the plot along. I have a hard time believing she would ever be desperate for Tony, but she was. I think Katie would have been more Roger's type, but that wouldn't have brought the added Bauer angst.

I think what hurt Joyce was her being so tied to characters who were long gone, aside from family functions or supporting Lisa. There was certainly a time she could have returned - maybe when Grant was given that bizarre return in 1989 where we were meant to think he might have killed Earl or was gaslighting Lisa - but she doesn't seem like Marland's type of difficult female character. Lilith, Tess, Marcy, etc. were much more blatant and one-note (and I generally enjoyed those characters but I will still admit it). If later hacks had known of her, those who wrote in the '00s, she probably would have shown up, but she would have been played by someone who had been on AMC or OLTL and probably put poison gas in Oakdale. I can see why they went this route with Lisa. She had been repeating the same stories with Bob and Grant for years. A fresh start makes sense, even if nothing came of it.

"Woke" now means anything that isn't a straight, white, able-bodied man. Today Little House would be called "DEI" and "woke" because of the focus on Laura. We would be told that the producers and writers hate men. They would also be called "DEI" and "woke" due to having blind characters, black characters, and characters in wheelchairs.

She probably just thought he was hot, which I guess he was, even if he's a bit vacant. That clip is new. The Hillary angst over Roger is in other episodes and clips from that time - I think there's a flashback around of Hilary ending their relationship.

I never did get to those but I'm glad they were at least around for some to see and for the cast to enjoy. I'm sure they must have expected more - if they had started a few years earlier they might have taken more advantage of the ABC soap boom. I know it must have been odd to have more fame in Italy than in the US, where they could barely even get magazine covers. I don't think the show ever really found the "moments" that would have generated blowing up, but then with the timeslot and affiliate issues and how hard it was for a new soap by then (other than B&B, which benefited massively from Y&R), there wasn't much of a chance. You probably already saw it, but Lauren Marie Taylor talked about some of the public response or lack thereof in a Locher Room interview last year.

Tony Orlando and Dawn probably fit in better with what people expected - it doesn't seem like S&D was as much of the peppy false '50s as Happy Days. I have seen some of Tony Orlando and Dawn (I am still confused about why the show became known as Rainbow Hour in its last season). Tony is charming but a lot to take. I do enjoy Telma Hopkins and Joyce Vincent Wilson. I think even if his drug problems hadn't destroyed their partnership, it wouldn't have lasted much longer.

Thank you so much for letting me have them! I'm not sure why either - there were some song issues but I think most places can still see the episodes, so I just left them in for now. Thanks to Chris as well. I wish I'd been able to watch the reunions he put together. They were gone before I ever could. It was nice of him to try to bring everyone together at a time when we all did genuinely think harmony might be a possibility. His time on Loving is very underrated, in part because most of what is available is just Curtis as the heavy/having breakdowns. Sorry to hear about the lost episodes but maybe they will show up someday. The main thing is you did have some to share with everyone and I can't thank you enough. I remember SOD having a quote in the mid '90s from a fan who called Loving "the little soap that could." That we are all still trying our best to share our memories and theories and assemble pieces (there's even an awesome, very detailed blog for the show) all these years later proves just how right she was.

Not sure if this or the Family thread would be a better place (given Gary Frank being on both shows), but I thought it might be better here as the show was seemingly very hard to find and now all the episodes are on Youtube, from the channel that has given us so much. There's a lot of good stuff in this article, including the info that it was based on a pilot called Senior Year, that it was one of the lowest-rated shows of the season when it was canceled, etc. https://www.tvobscurities.com/2019/10/episode-guide-sons-daughters/