For recommendations for 90's primetime soap operas, I would suggest either Savannah ( 34 episodes, decent acting and plotlines, and ends with a satisfying conclusion instead of cliffhanger), or Melrose Place (Started as a thirtysomething aspirational drama, morphed into a Knots Landing soap in season 2, then morphs in an over the top crazy show in mid season 3, and tries to ground itself like Dynasty in its final season).

2 hours ago, Khan said:

KL's first season was strictly self-contained episodes, featuring stories with a clear beginning, middle and end that did not carry over to the next episode. As was typical of most one-hour shows from that period, some episodes were better than others, but all give you a good and proper introduction to the main characters, two of whom will remain until the series' end in '93.

I also think KL's first three seasons, even as they get slow at times or have eps you can skip (I have a must-watch ep list of my own somewhere as I am sure many fans do), have certain eps that while not serialized or 'important' are essential to understanding the characters and relationships that continue to power the show and story well into halfway through its run and probably beyond.

KL prioritized character and that institutional memory in a way many primetime soaps don't IMO.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by Vee

12 minutes ago, Vee said:

I also think KL's first three seasons, even as they get slow at times or have eps you can skip (I have a must-watch ep list of my own somewhere as I am sure many fans do), have certain eps that while not serialized or 'important' are essential to understanding the characters and relationships that continue to power the show and story well into halfway through its run and probably beyond.

KL prioritized character and that institutional memory in a way many primetime soaps don't IMO.

ICAM!!

1 hour ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

The first season, however, gave off the most Bergman vibes.

I agree with you and with @EricMontreal22 : first season KL aspires to be a spiritual cousin to "Family" and to the domestic dramas of Ingmar Bergman as well. It just doesn't have the same level of writing or casting.

2 hours ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

elements of soap opera have found their way into a lot of shows not necessarily thought of as a primetime soaps: friday night lights, for example (prime video and paramount+). also: men of a certain age (hbo max).

Oh, soap elements now pervade nearly every scripted show on TV, as has been discussed (ie you can get your soap fix of serialized story telling so many ways now...) I guess people point out that this started with shows like Hill Street Blues which mixed a procedural with overarching storylines. I'm a huge fan of the Herskovitz/Zwick TV dramas (thirtysomething, My So-Called Life which they produced but didn't create but Winnie Holzman, who wrote for thirtysomething did and most of the writers were from it, and Once and Again especially) and get a lot of the same pleasures from them as I do from soaps, but they're not really soaps (in fact when Herskovitz/Zwick were brought on as showrunners for the final two seasons of the soapy Nashville they weren't a great fit, though there was some promise)... You mention Friday Night Lights which was adapted for tv and run by Jason Katims who got his start writing on MSCL and had his own shortlived series produced by Herskovitz/Zwick, Relativity (which is all on YT which is nice as I thought I was the only one who remembered it existed,) etc.,

2 hours ago, YRBB said:

I have to disagree with everyone LOL

The best introduction to the primetime soaps is DALLAS. There's a reason why it was popular and a ratings hit from the very beginning. It is entertaining, it has its tone and style set from the very beginning, and remains very consistent for 10 seasons/years - except it becomes better and better and matures into a truly compelling saga.

I get why you'd say this and can't disagree, and yet it depends on what you like. As a teen anyway, Knots appealed to me much more because it was family drama but on a scale that I could relate to a bit more--Dallas has that whole Family Legacy angle, as well as a LOT of business shenanigans (which all these soaps did--that was very 80s--but) and if that doesn't appeal to you...

4 minutes ago, Khan said:

I agree with you and with @EricMontreal22 : first season KL aspires to be a spiritual cousin to "Family" and to the domestic dramas of Ingmar Bergman as well. It just doesn't have the same level of writing or casting.

Jacobs quoted Scenes from a Marriage in his pitch, right?

22 minutes ago, EricMontreal22 said:

I'm a huge fan of the Herskovitz/Zwick TV dramas (thirtysomething, My So-Called Life which they produced but didn't create but Winnie Holzman, who wrote for thirtysomething did and most of the writers were from it, and Once and Again especially) and get a lot of the same pleasures from them as I do from soaps, but they're not really soaps (in fact when Herskovitz/Zwick were brought on as showrunners for the final two seasons of the soapy Nashville they weren't a great fit, though there was some promise)...

both herskovitz and zwick got their start writing for family (abc 1976), a show with deep roots in soaps — as the world turns, in particular.

beyond serality

3 minutes ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

both herskovitz and zwick got their start writing for family (abc 1976), a show with deep roots in soaps — as the world turns, in particular.

beyond serality

Oh yes! I'm well aware--as I said before I'm a huge Family fan. A number of writers started there--Ron Cowen and Daniel Lipman as well, who would go on to create Sisters and the American Queer as Folk (which I have issues with :P ) as well as the other things like the important gay TV movie An Early Frost (they also were on Knots Landing for a bit...) Richard Kramer (who has become an online friend of mine) also started as a Family writer where he met Herskovitz and Zwick and became an important writer on most of their shows (including the famous "gay bed scene" episode of thirtysomething,) wrote the teleplay for the first Tales of the City, etc.

The best overall primetime soap is Knots Landing because it never became a shell of itself and it had a proper ending, something the other primetime soaps cannot claim. Michele Lee, Joan Van Ark, and Donna Mills are all very good playing layered characters. I'd say Knots is the most 'real' of the primetime soaps from this era.

For my money, season 2 - 4 of Dynasty are its best as a glitzy primetime soap that still had some edge, season 5 it starts to focus on a particular storyline that provides its most memorable season ending cliffhanger, and I liked season 9 much more than 6 - 8, where the show really lost its way. If you want to watch one woman singlehandedly reinvent a show, look no further than Joan Collins as Alexis Carrington Colby. She rocked it and nobody could have played that part like she did.

Dallas is solid for the first 10 years and then it starts to fall apart as several important cast members leave. It's also the primetime soap where the male characters were generally more important than the female characters. Larry Hagman is incredibly good as the incredibly bad JR.

Falcon Crest was never my show and the little I've seen over the years just confirms it.