Oh please. A breather is off the screen for a few weeks. A breather is being support rather than leading story. A breather is not being off the canvas for two months at a time and being ignored in scenes you should be used for. It's not like Michael and Lauren led story. I could see people needing a nice long breather from Gloria and now Kevin, but they are wasting two good popular veteran actors in CLB and TEB. As far as recurring, other actors are recurring and still get used and TEB has been recurring since 2001 and has never been ignored as she has under this regime. She is Lauren "friggen" Fenmore. That should mean something, especially to a writer who claims to respect the history of this show.

As for Victor, he fed his wife's lover rats. He did not burn a fetus after causing a miscarriage, poke his eyes with chemicals, allow a woman to believe she is carrying a baby while setting her up with a molestor for her OB/GYN. Victor also didn't shove a peanut butter cookie in her mouth, lick her lips and then give a little girl a big kiss or kill family pets. Deep down, MJ/Patty is a loon. If they showed her having some remorse maybe I could see her being a misunderstood character but she gets a glow in her eyes when she talks of hurting Summer to get those bitches and talks to a cat she killed. Her saying that she didn't mean for Summer to get hurt rings hollow.

OK - you're clearly a bigger Lauren Fenmore fan than I! From my piddling memory the only s/l that she's "lead" in the past 5 years has been a Sheila s/l. She chose to be with Y&R on recurring when she came back or so she told the press. I'd like to see more Lauren too for what it's worth.

And I hate to tell you this, but in some states dead fetuses are incenerated. I don't know what you would expect a guy to do with a dead fetus. Perhaps bury it and give it a funeral? And again, Adam didn't mean to make Ashley lose that baby. Is he a bad guy - yes, but like everyone seems to call Adam, a psycho, I think he can still be part of long-term story on this show.

They have showed Patty being extremely remorseful for hurting Summer, even making even poorer decisions as a result of the stress she's under - the Victor hug today for example. As have they showed Adam being remorseful for causing Ashley's miscarriage. Adam's desperate and every bit as dark as his father was and does have the potential to be. It just seems like they are crafting characters that are interesting to me.

They aren't interested in writing for half of their cast and they seemingly have no sense as to when certain character are no longer working and need to be written out (like Gloria Jeffrey, Devon, Tyra, Cane, etc).

MAB said a few months ago that the summer would bring about characters in front-burner storylines that haven't been used a lot in a while. Other than perhaps Daniel, that isn't true at all. Once again, ANOTHER empty promise from Queen Maria Arena Bell.

She's probably talking about the new characters she keeps bringing on even though the show is facing financially tough times. Oh and Noah, Neil, Devon, JT and Victoria have been used 4 times this month instead of once. She writes for the same people and for some writes the same scenes over and over again.

She also starts and stops stories that go nowhere. She brought up Devon's father not knowing about him with the appearance of Della Reese in May and then nothing. She now seems to be shelving the Noah wants emancipation story which was BS to start with since Noah claims his parents don't let him see Eden and yet Eden is lucky to be on screen once a month. The Neil/Tyra story is played once every two weeks just like the Neil/Karen story. Is Gloria and Jeff blackmailing Victor still? Now I could care less about most of these stories, but if you are going to start them then play them at least once a week.

OK - you're clearly a bigger Lauren Fenmore fan than I! From my piddling memory the only s/l that she's "lead" in the past 5 years has been a Sheila s/l. She chose to be with Y&R on recurring when she came back or so she told the press. I'd like to see more Lauren too for what it's worth.

And I hate to tell you this, but in some states dead fetuses are incenerated. I don't know what you would expect a guy to do with a dead fetus. Perhaps bury it and give it a funeral? And again, Adam didn't mean to make Ashley lose that baby. Is he a bad guy - yes, but like everyone seems to call Adam, a psycho, I think he can still be part of long-term story on this show.

They have showed Patty being extremely remorseful for hurting Summer, even making even poorer decisions as a result of the stress she's under - the Victor hug today for example. As have they showed Adam being remorseful for causing Ashley's miscarriage. Adam's desperate and every bit as dark as his father was and does have the potential to be. It just seems like they are crafting characters that are interesting to me.

Yes, I am a big Lauren Fenmore fan and don't expect her to get lead story, but having her off screen for nearly two months is wrong after being off all of March. She has her fans and is a proven vet, so use her. If Murphy can be in scenes regularly so can Lauren. Show her supporting her family and Phyllis if you don't have a story for her now.

I have not seen Patty being remorseful or Adam for that matter. If they were truly sorry they would not keep hurting the same people they supposedly are sorry for hurting. Was Patty remorseful when she said about Summer being in a coma, that sometimes you have to crack some eggs to get an omelette and then drawing Summer some bizarre get well card with her stuffed cat on it? That just shows me she is a loon. And the hug today was to get Victor's wallet not because she is falling apart. I think they could have saved MJ before her poisoning of Summer but not anymore. The fetus was not medical waste, it represented Ashley's hopes and dreams. And Adam not only had to burn the fetus, he had to clean up Ashley which I don't even want to think about. Adam hiring a molestor to be Ashley's OB/GYN shows litte remorse. Do you know how many times a woman must get checked out (think stirrups) when she is pregnant and to think that her OB is a molestor is disgusting. Who are they writing this show for?

I agree there are different types of viewers and obvious we have different tolerances for this kind of story, but I have to wonder if this show is so worried about showing a gay kiss that they need to cut away on even a tame scene like today, why would they think the majority of their audience would be on board with some of these stories as of late?

Edited July 8, 200916 yr by lmfan

Who are they writing this show for?

I agree there are different types of viewers and obvious we have different tolerances for this kind of story, but I have to wonder if this show is so worried about showing a gay kiss that they need to cut away on even a tame scene like today, why would they think the majority of their audience would be on board with some of these stories as of late?

Keep the faith that a change will come under a new writing regime soon enough, lmfan!

Edited July 8, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Keep the faith that a change will come under a new writing regime soon enough, lmfan!

Not much faith anymore, but I'll give it end of the summer. I am a teacher and have extra time in the summer so we'll see. Signing MTS was a step in the right direction, and I actually would be ok with them just letting Sheffer go since I think he is at the heart of the really ugly stories I detest.

Yes, I am a big Lauren Fenmore fan and don't expect her to get lead story, but having her off screen for nearly two months is wrong after being off all of March. She has her fans and is a proven vet, so use her. If Murphy can be in scenes regularly so can Lauren. Show her supporting her family and Phyllis if you don't have a story for her now.

I have not seen Patty being remorseful or Adam for that matter. If they were truly sorry they would not keep hurting the same people they supposedly are sorry for hurting. Was Patty remorseful when she said about Summer being in a coma, that sometimes you have to crack some eggs to get an omelette and then drawing Summer some bizarre get well card with her stuffed cat on it? That just shows me she is a loon. And the hug today was to get Victor's wallet not because she is falling apart. I think they could have saved MJ before her poisoning of Summer but not anymore. The fetus was not medical waste, it represented Ashley's hopes and dreams. And Adam not only had to burn the fetus, he had to clean up Ashley which I don't even want to think about. Adam hiring a molestor to be Ashley's OB/GYN shows litte remorse. Do you know how many times a woman must get checked out (think stirrups) when she is pregnant and to think that her OB is a molestor is disgusting. Who are they writing this show for?

I agree there are different types of viewers and obvious we have different tolerances for this kind of story, but I have to wonder if this show is so worried about showing a gay kiss that they need to cut away on even a tame scene like today, why would they think the majority of their audience would be on board with some of these stories as of late?

Not to go off-topic but none of us know any of the reasons - yet we speculate. The show has obviously pushed the envelope lately in its provocative s/l's and there's hard-evidence that people will stop watching if there is homosexual activity on a show - Ellen, the sitcom for example. some people are really upset with the stories, and some people love them. People watch far darker stories in primetime. I happen to like Y&R cause it's not boring and predictable to me and stuff happens every day. If anything is ruining Y&R for me it's the spoilers.

I think if a lot of these s/l's weren't analyzed and debated in advance of them airing, people might enjoy the ride a bit more. i wish i knew how to quit DC's spoilers...

Not much faith anymore, but I'll give it end of the summer. I am a teacher and have extra time in the summer so we'll see. Signing MTS was a step in the right direction, and I actually would be ok with them just letting Sheffer go since I think he is at the heart of the really ugly stories I detest.

MAB seems fond of these "ugly stories" or else she wouldn't let them slip through as much as she does. She's the one with the producing credit and she did say the show was, "my show and my vision."

Maria, Hogan, and Scott are a toxic trio that this she needs to rid itself of.

Maria = Inexperienced, dull, and aimless as hell. Also loves pointless stories involving art

Hogan = Likes to go too far, especially with villains. His stories often end up lacking substance and pacing has always been an issue with him.

Scott Hamner = Loves his murders, stolen money, and weak woman stories. He's also Lynn Marie Latham's biggest henchmen. Maria claimed she wanted to rid the show of LML's influences, yet she kept her closest professional friend? Um, that makes no sense.

Who thought this would be any sort of "dream team" for this show?

I'm holding out faith that this writing regime will be replaced by the end of the year or the start of the new year.

Edited July 8, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

So, two more BIG empty promises from Queen Marie Antoinette, I mean Maria Arena Bell.

When she first started, she said she was going to try to rid the show of its heavy criminal emphasis, something Latham LOVED a lot. Well, it's only gotten worse with Maria there.

Yep. Gotta love Heather "Nancy Drew" Stephens.

She also said a few months ago that this summer would bring about characters that haven't been used a lot being featured in front-burner storylines. Other than perhaps Daniel this hasn't been true at all. She's and her henchmen are still using the same character repeatedly that have hogged up airtime since the start of her tenure there.

Yeah, where's Jill's story? She's working at a friggin NAIL SALON for crying out loud. Is this what Jess Walton re-signed for? Really?

And also, I was just thinking, Lynn Herring mentioned she auditioned for recast Jill. Let's say she landed the role. She's like, 51 or something. And Thom Bierdz looks like he's 60...

Thank God Jess decided to stay.

Edited July 8, 200916 yr by bellcurve

I posted this in the main episode thread, but it deserves to be posted here:

Not much faith anymore, but I'll give it end of the summer. I am a teacher and have extra time in the summer so we'll see. Signing MTS was a step in the right direction, and I actually would be ok with them just letting Sheffer go since I think he is at the heart of the really ugly stories I detest.

MAB seems fond of these "ugly stories" or else she wouldn't let them slip through as much as she does. She's the one with the producing credit and she did say the show was, "my show and my vision."

Maria, Hogan, and Scott are a toxic trio that this she needs to rid itself of.

Maria = Inexperienced, dull, and aimless as hell. Also loves pointless stories involving art

Hogan = Likes to go too far, especially with villains. His stories often end up lacking substance and pacing has always been an issue with him.

Scott Hamner = Loves his murders, stolen money, and weak woman stories. He's also Lynn Marie Latham's biggest henchmen. Maria claimed she wanted to rid the show of LML's influences, yet she kept her closest professional friend? Um, that makes no sense.

They all have playing their favourite character heavily at the expense of others and misogynistic stories in common.

Who thought this would be any sort of "dream team" for this show?

I'm holding out faith that this writing regime will be replaced by the end of the year or the start of the new year.

Edited July 8, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

WORLD to everything in this post, especially the last part!

You know why. Money, and planned phase outs. It is clear to see who is destined for departure.

My guess is that recurring WAS her choice. (Maybe it was an MTS deal...she didn't want to lower her per-episode rate, but was willing to make it without a guarantee). And for a long time, it worked in her favor.

Now we're in cash crunch with the network license fee reduction. Like at any institution, the first people to go are those with the least firm contracts. Not using TEB saves $$$...and that seems to be the order of the day.

You know Mark, sometimes you give this show too many passes. It's not about money. It is about playing favorites and the ABC'ing of Y&R. If they had real money issues, so much that they couldn't even use a 25 yr vet for an appearance a week, then why are they bringing on actors from other shows and going after GL name stars? Why do they keep adding more and more actors when the canvas is already overstuffed. It's about focusing on younger actors and characters and keeping enough vets around to appease people and giving the same characters all the story.

And if she wants to clear the canvas of a character like Lauren Fenmore, then MAB needs to stop playing games with her audience and her actors. Don't lead them on then ignore them for months. Have the guts to let these actors know what is going on and take their calls. Then write them an exit story than is worthy of someone who has been on the show for so long.

What's her big plan for Lauren? Oh, I get it. Let's keep her off screen for months and minimize her as much as possible so people forget about her and her son. Afterall we have Murphy and Katherine now, who needs Lauren and Michael. Then let's have Michael be nothing more than a prop lawyer, the John Silva of today. And instead of writing them some conflict will just have Lauren leave some day because of some family crisis and she and Michael will develop marital difficulties and divorce off screen. Who cares about Michael's issues with being a good father and husband? Who cares that they have been happily together for five years. If they can bring Philip back from the dead, it's nothing to ask the fans to believe than a happy marriage would fall apart off screen. Then once they conveniently rid themselves of Michael's wife and son, they can turn him all dark and angry and match him up with a recasted Victoria or if Rafe or another younger actor clicks as the new lawyer, ship him off to Lauren and Fen.

Who cares about talent or history with this show. And you know what is sad. Most of the audience will buy it and say it is all about money. I hope people are as accepting of these changes when their favorite vets are moved out. Because this is just the beginning.

You know Mark, sometimes you give this show too many passes. It's not about money. It is about playing favorites and the ABC'ing of Y&R. If they had real money issues, so much that they couldn't even use a 25 yr vet for an appearance a week, then why are they bringing on actors from other shows and going after GL name stars? Why do they keep adding more and more actors when the canvas is already overstuffed. It's about focusing on younger actors and characters and keeping enough vets around to appease people and giving the same characters all the story.

And if she wants to clear the canvas of a character like Lauren Fenmore, then MAB needs to stop playing games with her audience and her actors. Don't lead them on then ignore them for months. Have the guts to let these actors know what is going on and take their calls. Then write them an exit story than is worthy of someone who has been on the show for so long.

What's her big plan for Lauren? Oh, I get it. Let's keep her off screen for months and minimize her as much as possible so people forget about her and her son. Afterall we have Murphy and Katherine now, who needs Lauren and Michael. Then let's have Michael be nothing more than a prop lawyer, the John Silva of today. And instead of writing them some conflict will just have Lauren leave some day because of some family crisis and she and Michael will develop marital difficulties and divorce off screen. Who cares about Michael's issues with being a good father and husband? Who cares that they have been happily together for five years. If they can bring Philip back from the dead, it's nothing to ask the fans to believe than a happy marriage would fall apart off screen. Then once they conveniently rid themselves of Michael's wife and son, they can turn him all dark and angry and match him up with a recasted Victoria or if Rafe or another younger actor clicks as the new lawyer, ship him off to Lauren and Fen.

Who cares about talent or history with this show. And you know what is sad. Most of the audience will buy it and say it is all about money. I hope people are as accepting of these changes when their favorite vets are moved out. Because this is just the beginning.

How can you speak with such certainty that you know the thoughts, plans and agenda of the people running the show?

You know Mark, sometimes you give this show too many passes.

No offense Mark, but she does have a point here...

It's not about money. It is about playing favorites and the ABC'ing of Y&R. If they had real money issues, so much that they couldn't even use a 25 yr vet for an appearance a week, then why are they bringing on actors from other shows and going after GL name stars? Why do they keep adding more and more actors when the canvas is already overstuffed. It's about focusing on younger actors and characters and keeping enough vets around to appease people and giving the same characters all the story.

There is no sound explanation or rationalization for any of this.

Who cares about talent or history with this show. And you know what is sad. Most of the audience will buy it and say it is all about money. I hope people are as accepting of these changes when their favorite vets are moved out. Because this is just the beginning.

Pretty much.

I sincerely believe it is about money. With limited dollars, they have to make choices. And they have chosen to play certain vets (and neglect or kill off the others), and slowly load up the young 'uns (which--by itself--is not a problem, since it gives a show sustainability in future years). We're not as far apart as you think though. Like this:

Mark, this has been going on for over a year now, long before the cuts to the show's franchise fee were made. It's not all about money, it may be a part of it, but these problems were there before.

And as you've said, they haven't done a good job or properly paring down the canvas.

Is this good managing skills? I don't think so.

Edited July 9, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

And why can't we see other characters like Lauren along with Victoria and JT in some of these smaller scenes? Why can't the writers show Michael with his son and wife to contrast his observing what Nick and Phyllis are going through? And that's all Michael is used for in his scenes nowadays, a passive observer who runs around getting court dates or contacting judges. What was his purpose in those scenes with Heather, Phyllis and Nick yesterday? Oh that's right, Michael will take care of everything because he has no other life other than to serve his clients from morning to late at night, and even on national holidays.

lmfan - Actually, I'm not blowing smoke up your ass here - you're totally right. Along with Victoria and JT's absence, Lauren's absence throughout the week has also been noticeable. I let it go the first few days (we all complained about Victor/Nikki not being there, but they showed up on Day Two), but you're right - now it's inexcusable. Lauren ABSOLUTELY should have been there for a scene or two with Phyllis (maybe even Sharon too).