Viva La Vee!

I still don't get why people are getting so bent out of shape over Chris Engen. Oh ok, yes I do get it, he's the helpless victim yet because he's yet to clear his name. Wouldn't it be great if Engen's performance just suck from here on out, so it would be easier to see him go.

I'm not the one angry and upset, screaming about bigots being hanged in a world gone mad. I'm resolute, but not upset.

We've had much more hullabaloo over sillier stuff than this; other contract disputes, personal issues behind the scenes. Threads thirty, fifty, a hundred pages long. But suddenly Steve decides we need to shut up when it's about the gays.

Yes we have. But I don't remember in any of those threads where we labeled a person a name like a homophobe ever. ONe time I remember a former poster who is not here making a judgement over Thaao Penghlis - labeling him a pervert or a molester or something like that. And I did call that person on that. Mods also called him on that - saying that was actor bashing.

he was called a pervert or a molester over something he said on a radio program where he was joking about something sexual.

I have no problems with anything until judging comes into the picture. And that is what happened this time. Hell every year I participate in that gossip thread. I love gossip as much as the next person. But this was different. You guys judged this man and labeled him.

And believe no matter what he will fight a long time to get rid of that name. If he is truly a homophobe he deserves it but we can't say 100% that he is and that is my problem.

But most of you just don't care about that at all.

If it's your JOB as an ACK-TOR and you QUIT over it, potentially destroying your career due to contract issues, then I think that indicates just a smidge of a homophobic overreaction.

There can be other reasons he quit other than he hates the gay community.

How can people be so intolerant when they don't even know? That is the intolerance I am talking about.

I know, it just baffles me too. Let's ask the Republican Party. Better yet, you ask.

You can't expect this to be off-limits when we gossip about everything BTS ad infinitum around here. If you choose to defend Chris Engen to your dying breath, this is of course your prerogative - and I am sure you will claim 'vindication' when he denies any homophobia, which won't actually be proof of anything. And you're right, we don't like assumptions made against us. But nor did we rally around Isaiah Washington, now did we? Well, maybe you did.

As for my sig quote, that is a quote about me. I thought it was a kick so I kept it.

Yes we have. But I don't remember in any of those threads where we labeled a person a name like a homophobe ever. ONe time I remember a former poster who is not here making a judgement over Thaao Penghlis - labeling him a pervert or a molester or something like that. And I did call that person on that. Mods also called him on that - saying that was actor bashing.

Unlike the Thaao Penghlis situation, SON seems to find this allegation to have merit and Errol may have more sources than us laymen (and women) do. Therefore, they have not cracked down on me or any of us. If you want to seek justice on that score, maybe you should take it up with the admins.

There can be other reasons he quit other than he hates the gay community.

There's more to homophobia than homicidal rage and crucified kids. It's a slur, or an attitude, or a choice. In this case, the allegation is that Engen chose to quit and seriously jeopardize his career rather than play romantic scenes with another man.

No I didn't rally around Washington. The sources were more accurate than the ones we have here.

I wasn't about to support him.

And so because the Republican party can do this it is okay for otehrs. If they can act that way so we can too. Wow what logical thinking. I would think we wouldn't want to act like them. I would hope that we would want to be different.

Just because one side acts morally superior to another and calls names doesn't make it right. It is ugly when they do it and it is ugly when we do it too.

I don't think I'm morally superior to any of you. I'm not even sure I'm morally superior to Chris Engen. I do know I don't think I like him.

As for the Republicans, I brought it up because of your sig. That's one subtle, deft touch you've got there.

There isn't any more for me to say at this point, anyway; we have no news and I've explained my position time and again.

Edited May 26, 200916 yr by Vee

Unlike the Thaao Penghlis situation, SON seems to find this allegation to have merit and Errol may have more sources than us laymen (and women) do. Therefore, they have not cracked down on me or any of us. If you want to seek justice on that score, maybe you should take it up with the admins.

There's more to homophobia than homicidal rage and crucified kids. It's a slur, or an attitude, or a choice. In this case, the allegation is that Engen chose to quit and seriously jeopardize his career rather than play romantic scenes with another man.

I have. And I have gotten no response from anyone.

And see your word "allegation"

If any of you had said he was an alledged homophobe I would have had no problem. But you didn't. You said he was one. Notice in Nelson's report he uses that word in brackets. Alledgedly these things happened. He didn't feel comfortable enough to say that it did happen. He said it alledgedly happened. And he is the first source.

All of this alledgedly happened. We still don't know that it did. As Mark has said over and over, all the sources he has looked at still go back to Nelson as the primary source. And Nelson says he alledgedly did this.

I have. And I have gotten no response from anyone.

Then maybe they know something we don't.

I don't think I'm morally superior to any of you. I'm not even sure I'm morally superior to Chris Engen. I do know I don't think I like him.

As for the Republicans, I brought it up because of your sig. That's one subtle, deft touch you've got there.

There isn't any more for me to say at this point, anyway; we have no news and I've explained my position time and again.

Just because I don't like Obama doesn't mean I am a Republican. I am a registered Independent. I voted for the Independent guy. I vote for Dems and Reps depending on who I like.

I just didn't trust or like Obama. But I didn't trust and like McCain either. So I threw my vote away.

wow... I can't believe this is going on for as long as it has. It would be nice for an official statement to be announced in regard to what really happened. But I must say, this thread is more dramatic than what probably really went on behind the scenes.

I think it's pretty plain and simple though from what we have been told.

If Engen quit because he had to kiss another man, then he doesn't deserve to work again in television or film because an actor's job is to act, personal beliefs aside. If you can't do it, you don't belong in this industry. I know many actors, both who have worked in theatre and in television. Your personal beliefs (kissing another man) don't get in the way when your dream is to become a star. You suck it up and do what the script calls for. If you really care that people are going to think you are just like your character, well then, you're an idiot. I think the majority of viewers know the difference between reality and fantasy and can separate the two and be able to identify Chris as Chris and Adam as Adam. One is an actor (or at least claims to be) and another is a fictional character.

Now, if something else really happened and we don't know, well, that sucks because we haven't found out yet what that was. Maybe this has already been stated many times and I'm sure it has, but I don't have time to read all 29 pages on this.

I did see the Perez crap and I, speaking as a gay man, think Perez is a joke and I don't know anyone who takes him seriously. Labeling Engen a "homophobe" is his prerogative, but Chris has yet to come out (no pun intended) and address those accusations. Either way, it doesn't matter because Engen, being a public figure (because he is an actor and is in the public eye) is not exempt from scrutiny. Unless it is going to seriously damage his career, there is nothing that can be done about how Perez labels him.

I hate Perez. But I also hate homophobia. That's my nuanced position, or whatever.

wow... I can't believe this is going on for as long as it has. It would be nice for an official statement to be announced in regard to what really happened. But I must say, this thread is more dramatic than what probably really went on behind the scenes.

I don't know that we'll ever get an official statement, or that I'd trust one. This will be legalities within legalities...

I did see the Perez crap and I, speaking as a gay man, think Perez is a joke and I don't know anyone who takes him seriously. Labeling Engen a "homophobe" is his prerogative, but Chris has yet to come out (no pun intended) and address those accusations. Either way, it doesn't matter because Engen, being a public figure (because he is an actor and is in the public eye) is not exempt from scrutiny. Unless it is going to seriously damage his career, there is nothing that can be done about how Perez labels him.

Perez is an entertainer...like Don Rickles or Joan Rivers. Once I made that mental shift in my head, I stopped expecting journalism or even well sourced stories. I think NB may also be an entertainer...and that he'd embrace that label.

If you read/listen to the entertainers (which I do), you lose any moral authority to critique their styles (so I don't). I consume their muck...I perpetrate it my making return visits. If I feel a little dirty afterward, that's my fault.

The sad thins CSF is that most people will believe the gossip no matter how it turns out.

Here is what Ian Somerhadler had to say when he was accused of being a homophobe about some remarks he made about kissing James Van Der Beek in a movie:

It's not me who can't handle it, it's the audience. Seann William Scott didn't get all of the backlash that I received when he did just the same in American Pie 2. It was completely unjustified - fans and outraged men saying that I was making anti-gay remarks. I wasn't and those very close to me who are gay were visibly upset. I'd never make a disrespectful remark about anyone, especially in public, about one's sexual preference.

The sad thins CSF is that most people will believe the gossip no matter how it turns out.

Here is what Ian Somerhadler had to say when he was accused of being a homophobe about some remarks he made about kissing James Van Der Beek in a movie:

It's not me who can't handle it, it's the audience. Seann William Scott didn't get all of the backlash that I received when he did just the same in American Pie 2. It was completely unjustified - fans and outraged men saying that I was making anti-gay remarks. I wasn't and those very close to me who are gay were visibly upset. I'd never make a disrespectful remark about anyone, especially in public, about one's sexual preference.

Vaguely ironic, since it was implied that Somerhalder's Boone was bisexual on Lost.