Dark Shadows Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

I agree with Quent. The only time I believed Maggie as a heroine was the Quentin haunting story. Maggie was written as surprisingly proactive and strong in that story.

When Maggie began she was supposed to be more of the wisecracking supporting figure. They softened this a little but the drastic change didn't happen until after she was on the set to play Josette when they needed a ghost Josette. When Barnabas arrived, they kept that going, and her character was sacrificed.

[Soaplovers]

I remember viewing the Barnabas episodes first, and I do recall that Maggie wasn't a wisecracking character anymore.. but she was still very strong-willed and stubborn. This was very apparent during the hostage storyline when Barnabas kept trying to recreate Maggie into Josette... At first, she seemed to be Josette but then she seemed to snap out of it.. and was very stubborn and determined to escape. Even though ghost Sarah was a big help, if Maggie hadn't been so strong and determined, I dont think she would have been able to escape.

I think the total transformation of the character was complete after the 1795 story... early Maggie wouldnt have fallen for Warwick Nicholas' charms whatsoever. At this time, she was just a simple plot device..imho.

[DRW50]

The first three are recreations, the last is real.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sfdTIGPOg0

[DRW50]

November 1963 TV Radio Mirror

Earl Wilson's column

Carolyn was the last Victoria Winters - I think if they'd cast her instead of Ruth Buzzi Vicki (#2), the character might have stayed around.

Edited April 19, 2013 by CarlD2

[saynotoursoap]

I agree. I believe Carolyn Groves appeared in only two or three episodes, but I thought she performed very well under the circumstances. She might very well have succeeded had she been given a chance. I am glad that Betsy Durkin left the country and was not available for Groves' episodes because it proved to me that another actress could play the Victoria Winters part competently.

[DRW50]

They would have had Durkin back if she'd been available? Yikes.

I loved Moltke and I think she made Victoria all she was, with her weird mix of intelligence and naivete, but Groves was also perfectly fine in her few appearances. I wish they hadn't given up on Vicky, as, while I liked Maggie, she didn't work in that type of role.

[danfling]

Carolyn Groves had also played a role on The Edge of Night about quite a few years earlier.

[Soaplovers]

I could have seen Carolyn Groves playing the part of Victoria long-term and I figured that they would have bought back Victoria with all the mention of rescuing Victoria from being hung.. and her clothes returning to her closet... Disappointed that they didn't have Carolyn G. play a part in 1897... I think she could have played the Rachel Drummond part.. while KLS could have just played Kitty.

I've watched the first 75 episodes of Dark Shadows, and I just love how distinctive each of the characters are. Victoria is totally made in the mold of Jane Eyre, Maggie is the smart sleck waitress, Carolyn is the poor little spoiled rich girl, Elizabeth a private martiarch wanting to cover up the truth to not smudge the Collins name, Roger a pompous rich boy grown up, and Burke a chip on his shoulder man out for revenge.

I still don't understand why they never revealed Victoria's past, I bet if the show had indicated to her that the next plotline after Adam/Eve would have been Victoria's paternity being revealed... I bet Moltke might have stayed on longer to resolve that story and then could have been written out once Moltke left to have the baby.. with the knowledge that Victoria's mission of finding out her past has been completed and can move on with her life.

[DRW50]

Groves as Rachel Drummond would have been a good idea - KLS did well but it was also a little too overusing of the "oh wow she looks like Josette", especially since Kitty, her next role, was a reincarnation of Josette.

Apparently Ron Sproat had begun writing the story in a way that implied Vicky was Liz's daughter (I read this in a DS book from the early 90s), but that never came to fruition, I guess because Moltke and the show parted ways. You can see a few hints before the wedding episodes.

[danfling]

I understand that a new and not-so-innocent role was later written for Alexandra Moltke to play. (I think that it was Joanna Mills in 1840.)

Dianna Millay also had agreed to return to Dark Shadows shortly before it was cancelled. She did appear in Night of Dark Shadows because the role on the show was not possible.

[Soaplovers]

Yes, if Groves had played the Rachel part.. it would have been 'she looks a lot like Victoria Winters'.. and maybe they could have given clues that she would have been a descendant of Peter and Victoria.

I noticed that once Victoria returned from 1795, the show had shifted the focus away from providing individual characteristics to lumping everyone under the same character archtype (anyone that wasn't supernatural).

I recently watched episode 478, and the girl looked like Maggie.. but had neither her sarcasm, nor personality of the Maggie from the first 75 episodes. Victoria, at this stage, still seemed to have some of the personality of the early Vicki. I tend to think Victoria was still smart due to her knowing that Cassandra was really Angelique.. but I think she blocked out knowing about Barnabas due to denial since she cared so deeply for him.

I often liked Barnabas best with Julia and Victoria. I even liked that Julia/Victoria were kind of close as well.. which surprised me due to Barnabas loving Victoria and all.

[Soaplovers]

I knew about Diana Millay slated to return to the show. Though would she have come back to 1841 PT..or perhaps in 1971 (if the show were to return).

I didn't know Alexandra Moltke was asked back that late in the game? I knew they asked her back sometime in 1969.. and when she refused to play Victoria and wanted to play an edgier character.. they killed off Victoria.

Watching the first 75 episodes, and knowing that the original intent was for Victoria to be Paul Stoddard's daughter.. do you think maybe they should have cast Moltke as Carolyn (since she looked so much like Joan Bennett).. and had Nancy Barrett play Victoria? She could have easily darkened her hair.

Then Moltke could have played a different part in 1795.. since I know the actress was jealous that the other actors got to play different parts while she was stuck playing Victoria.

[DRW50]

I don't think Nancy Barrett suited ingenue roles - she was best with more vibrant parts.

Moltke played Vicky with a lot of strength, but also had the innocence. The dream curse story was a good example, as she kept holding onto the dream, through force of will, because she didn't want to hurt Barnabas.

I thought the present-day writing on DS was poor for most of the years after 1967. The one exception would probably be the era of the Quentin haunting storyline. That was also the only time Maggie didn't seem to just be a victim in those years.

I know KLS was supposed to play Samantha originally, but I wonder how Moltke would have been in the role (although I LOVED Virginia Vestoff and am so happy she got the part).

[Soaplovers]

Yeah, I agree that Maggie became the victim of choice in the later years of the show.

I did like that barnbas thought original recipe Maggie was the reincarnation of Josette, but then so found out after kidnapping her.. that she was nothing like Josette in personality.. and that Maggie was pretty fiesty during that story.

I think the post hostage stuff with Maggie was pretty good, and that she still had some fire.. but after 1795, she became the put upon victim.. moreso then Victoria was.

[saynotoursoap]

Yes. Betsy was not on contract. After Victoria faded into the past and it appeared Betsy was not needed, she left the U.S. for a Christmas holiday in Europe. While she was gone, TPTB contacted her to play Victoria again for those final episodes set in the past. Durkin could not return, so Carolyn Groves was cast. Coincidentally, Groves and Durkin were friends off screen, having appeared together in a play.