OK. I'll bite again.

Me too.

The entire context of this attack is out of the ordinary in everyday life, but I'm going along with it. Guns have not been allowed on planes for years. If you could bring a firearm onto a plane, you better believe that the terrorists would not have used box cutters.

The simple fact of the matter, Casey, is that guns will always kill more people simply because you don't have to be right up on someone's ass to use them. For other kinds of weapons, you do (for the most part). The interstate killings in DC years ago happened because the guys had a gun and they fired them at innocent people from far away. They would have never been able to yeild that kind of attack with a knife.

Again, I think you are missing my point. People will hurt with or without guns. I know, of course, guns are not allowed on planes. This proves my point that people find other ways.

Yes, you never said that. But the implication you have been posting here is that if Democrats are in charge, guns are gone. That's why you vote Repubs.

I never said that! I have stated several times why I vote Republican. I can assure, its not just about guns for me. I just added it into a long list of reasons on why I vote for the GOP and we have been discussing guns ever since.

I'm sure I could. I'm sure alot of people could. Do you know what comprises this test? All you have to do is take a gun safety class.

Cool.

Um. Because he's a Republican. Do I have to say why again? Really? A little something about the Constitution change GWB and the majority have been pushing the last 8 years. I concede that you say McCain voted against that. Fine. What makes you think that the Evangelistic Wing of the Republican Party won't have him towing the line?

Kind of a cynical outlook. I think McCain will be even more independent on his own, he has shown independence several times amongst Republicans in congress.

Who do you include in the Evangelistic wing of the party? Who would have the great power to influence McCain's decisions?

Not true. The lying McCain ads have been called out on this very thread by me and others.

Thanks, no one has replied to my question about what they feel the lies are. I would rather hear what you think the lies are than an article with someone else's opinion. But that's ok.

I have read the tax plan from Obama's website and we have discussed that extensively here Casey. I like the plan and I think I have argued sufficiently as to why I have come to that conclusion.

You have, that is the reason I brought up this "self-serving" argument when you said I was selfish for not being passionate with gay rights.

Secondly, your Republican Prez GWB has twice now sent tax payers rebate checks. I assume though that they were OK since they didn't come from the "pockets of the rich". Did you receive your checks? Did you cash them or send them back to the government with a note attached saying "Thanks, but no thanks"??

That is exactly my point. Bush did not increase taxes on the upper income bracket to fund the refunds. Bush sent refunds to people that actually paid taxes into the system. He did not play class warfare, and pit the classes against one another.

Funny to me that Obama, claims to be the great "uniter" while he proposes splitting the country among lines based on levels of income.

Bush did not issue refunds for political expediency.

Me too.

CHOMP!

Again, I think you are missing my point. People will hurt with or without guns. I know, of course, guns are not allowed on planes. This proves my point that people find other ways.

I understand your point. People will find other ways. Fine.

I never said that! I have stated several times why I vote Republican. I can assure, its not just about guns for me. I just added it into a long list of reasons on why I vote for the GOP and we have been discussing guns ever since.

OK, you're right. You didn't say that verbatim. It's not just about guns, but it is one of the reasons, isn't it? And guns are a pretty controversial issue, so I'm not surprised that we've been on this topic ever since.

Kind of a cynical outlook. I think McCain will be even more independent on his own, he has shown independence several times amongst Republicans in congress.

Who do you include in the Evangelistic wing of the party? Who would have the great power to influence McCain's decisions?

Well, no more cynical than your outlook of a potential Obama Presidency. You have to admit that. The influence would come more from the party base than one person, don't you think? The fundamentalist Christian conservatives that were ho-hum about McCain's nomination before SP came on board. She's the one that got the Evangelical wing invigorated and I argue that she'd be one of the main people influencing decisions that pander to that base.

Thanks, no one has replied to my question about what they feel the lies are. I would rather hear what you think the lies are than an article with someone else's opinion. But that's ok.

OK then. The "Lipstick on a Pig" commercial is one example. The other is the sex ed ad for Kindergarteners.

You have, that is the reason I brought up this "self-serving" argument when you said I was selfish for not being passionate with gay rights.

I never said that. I said you should not be so self-centered about the constitution issue because one day it may come closer to home than the gay rights issue has.

That is exactly my point. Bush did not increase taxes on the upper income bracket to fund the refunds. Bush sent refunds to people that actually paid taxes into the system. He did not play class warfare, and pit the classes against one another.

Funny to me that Obama, claims to be the great "uniter" while he proposes splitting the country among lines based on levels of income.

Bush did not issue refunds for political expediency.

And Bush promised to be a "uniter, not a divider" when he came to Washington 8 years ago! And he divided the country with wedge issues! Com'on now. He has been the most divisive President in history. And he did issue refunds for political gain IMO.

CHOMP!

Well, no more cynical than your outlook of a potential Obama Presidency. You have to admit that. The influence would come more from the party base than one person, don't you think? The fundamentalist Christian conservatives that were ho-hum about McCain's nomination before SP came on board. She's the one that got the Evangelical wing invigorated and I argue that she'd be one of the main people influencing decisions that pander to that base.

I am opposing Obama mainly because of his proposed plans and his voting records. Not so much, what I "think" he will do once in power. (your argument against McCain) I am basing my opposition on what he says he will do or has already done...

OK then. The "Lipstick on a Pig" commercial is one example. The other is the sex ed ad for Kindergarteners.

Gottcha.

I never said that. I said you should not be so self-centered about the constitution issue because one day it may come closer to home than the gay rights issue has.

Point taken and understood. I just saw "self-centered" and "you" (meaning me), in the same sentense and I went wild. Sorry..

And Bush promised to be a "uniter, not a divider" when he came to Washington 8 years ago! And he divided the country with wedge issues! Com'on now. He has been the most divisive President in history. And he did issue refunds for political gain IMO.

I not Bush's biggest fan, but I am not one that hates the man either. He has been ok and bad at the same time IMO. Bush is a whole other subject. Personally, one I dont want to get into.

Obama has been very divisive in his short tenure in the Senate as well.

Edited September 17, 200817 yr by Casey008

I am opposing Obama mainly because of his proposed plans and his voting records. Not so much, what I "think" he will do once in power. (your argument against McCain) I am basing my opposition on what he says he will do or has already done...

I am not voting against McCain based on assumptions, hyperbole or conjecture. I am voting against him for the same reasons you are opposing Obama.

I think that's been pretty clear from my debates here with you on this thread. Thanks for the insult though. I thought we were having intelligent conversation. I guess not.

Um. Because he's a Republican. Do I have to say why again? Really? A little something about the Constitution change GWB and the majority have been pushing the last 8 years. I concede that you say McCain voted against that. Fine. What makes you think that the Evangelistic Wing of the Republican Party won't have him towing the line?

I didn't mean that as an insult. I was just referring to this comment ^. You were thinking the Evangelistic Wing of the Republican Party will have him towing a line. They haven't done so in the past...so I assumed you thought otherwise..without going by his record..

I would consider your comment to be somewhat of an assumption. Sorry if you didn't mean it that way..Again, I didn't mean it as an insult.

Edited September 17, 200817 yr by Casey008

You have, that is the reason I brought up this "self-serving" argument when you said I was selfish for not being passionate with gay rights.

That is exactly my point. Bush did not increase taxes on the upper income bracket to fund the refunds. Bush sent refunds to people that actually paid taxes into the system. He did not play class warfare, and pit the classes against one another.

Funny to me that Obama, claims to be the great "uniter" while he proposes splitting the country among lines based on levels of income.

Bush did not issue refunds for political expediency.

Well, maybe those who received huge financial returns from the meltdown Monday will send me some of the millions they received.

No? They won't?

Oh. But I'm supposed to look out for them. I have NEVER had anything against anyone making their way in this country. But please don't try and tell me that Obama is playing class warfare when McCain's plan gives tax cuts to corporations while theys crew the working person.

And before you ask me why I think this.....I have said it before, so please refer to previous posts.

I didn't mean that as an insult. I was just referring to this comment ^. You were thinking the Evangelistic Wing of the Republican Party will have him towing a line. They haven't done so in the past...so I assumed you thought otherwise..without going by his record..

Well, OK. Perhaps I stated that wrongly.....

Why did he make the rounds at all the Christian think tanks when he got the nomination? Why would he do that if their interests were not important to him?

The other is the sex ed ad for Kindergarteners.

Not only is that ad lying but it also is vile since it depicts Obama as if he's some sort of pervert.

The first rebate checks from Bush came from the surplus that grew under Clinton.

The recent stimulus checks will be coming from taxpayers again but right now it's part of the deficit.

It's great to get a check since most people aren't stopping to consider that the money is coming from their taxes.

In order to pin class warfare on Obama, you'd have to say that he came up with the system in the first place which he did not. In order to say the Republicans have clean hands in this, you'd have to say that they've been fighting all along to make sure that people are on the same level and are afforded the same opportunities, equal pay for equal work, etc., which they have not.

Here's what I have to say about George W. Bush and dividing the classes.....Hurricane Katrina.

Well, maybe those who received huge financial returns from the meltdown Monday will send me some of the millions they received.

No? They won't?

Oh. But I'm supposed to look out for them. I have NEVER had anything against anyone making their way in this country. But please don't try and tell me that Obama is playing class warfare when McCain's plan gives tax cuts to corporations while theys crew the working person.

And before you ask me why I think this.....I have said it before, so please refer to previous posts.

Not only is that ad lying but it also is vile since it depicts Obama as if he's some sort of pervert.

The first rebate checks from Bush came from the surplus that grew under Clinton.

The recent stimulus checks will be coming from taxpayers again but right now it's part of the deficit.

It's great to get a check since most people aren't stopping to consider that the money is coming from their taxes.

In order to pin class warfare on Obama, you'd have to say that he came up with the system in the first place which he did not. In order to say the Republicans have clean hands in this, you'd have to say that they've been fighting all along to make sure that people are on the same level and are afforded the same opportunities, equal pay for equal work, etc., which they have not.

Here's what I have to say about George W. Bush and dividing the classes.....Hurricane Katrina.

Y'all.... I wish we lived closer so I could buy you a beer!

Greg's GL.....so you provided examples of McCain's lying ad......now what?

Not only is that ad lying but it also is vile since it depicts Obama as if he's some sort of pervert.

The first rebate checks from Bush came from the surplus that grew under Clinton.

The recent stimulus checks will be coming from taxpayers again but right now it's part of the deficit.

It's great to get a check since most people aren't stopping to consider that the money is coming from their taxes.

In order to pin class warfare on Obama, you'd have to say that he came up with the system in the first place which he did not. In order to say the Republicans have clean hands in this, you'd have to say that they've been fighting all along to make sure that people are on the same level and are afforded the same opportunities, equal pay for equal work, etc., which they have not.

Here's what I have to say about George W. Bush and dividing the classes.....Hurricane Katrina.

See, I don't know if you should have said that. You see, the conventional wisdom is that GWB was blamed for the hurricane hitting, and he didn't force those people to stay.

See, I have never said that, and anyone who thinks that is truly FOS.

I blame him for the RESPONSE to the hurricane. And, by what is happening right now in Houston, I can say one thing.....

Their imcompatance is consistant.

Edited September 17, 200817 yr by Roman

Greg's GL.....so you provided examples of McCain's lying ad......now what?

Now Casey understands all of the references to McCain's lying ads...